Labourers in vineyard parable in Mathew

[SilverFox7]

The whole idea of who’s going to be saved isn’t my judgement to make I can’t see a person living a wicked life and not repenting then being saved but this is only an opinion of an old fool who read the Bible a lot lol No one’s judge or anyone who matters especially

I got a chuckle out of being "an old fool who read the Bible a lot." I'm one of those old fools, too, my friend.

Yes, God is our judge, and we can be thankful for that. He knows we are but dust and the fact that His throne is depicted as a Mercy Seat says a lot.

Yeah, I don't think the unrepentant (those who have made a conscious free-will decision like Satan to live in opposition to God and His way of life) will be saved. I do think most will chose to be saved once they are introduced to Jesus Christ and are given the opportunity to be a part of His incredible kingdom.

TGIF

SF

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I got a chuckle out of being "an old fool who read the Bible a lot." I'm one of those old fools, too, my friend.

Yes, God is our judge, and we can be thankful for that. He knows we are but dust and the fact that His throne is depicted as a Mercy Seat says a lot.

Yeah, I don't think the unrepentant (those who have made a conscious free-will decision like Satan to live in opposition to God and His way of life) will be saved. I do think most will chose to be saved once they are introduced to Jesus Christ and are given the opportunity to be a part of His incredible kingdom.

TGIF

SF

Haha yeah it’s the best description of me I can think of but thank God he loves us old fools regardless of our foolishness

Yes brother I feel like this

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:51‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Is different than this

“And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:12-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Not sure if that makes sense

 

[SilverFox7]

Haha yeah it’s the best description of me I can think of but thank God he loves us old fools regardless of our foolishness

Yes brother I feel like this

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:51‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Is different than this

“And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:12-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Not sure if that makes sense

Makes perfect sense to me. Each of us has a simple choice ultimately--life in Christ forever or death forever in the lake of fire.

Now where it gets abstract and open to interpretation is the lake of fire. My opinion is "this is the second death" (absence of life/non-existence) as noted in the verses you quoted from Revelation. It makes the most sense to me because our God is a merciful God: why would he want people to suffer and "roast in hell" forever.

The other view of hell has its roots more in Dante and other classical writers than the Bible. This is the one where unrepentant souls are punished forever with Satan and his demons in hell. There are some passages in the Bible that support this such as the parable of Lazaras and the Rich Man.

Whatever the case, our choice is life for sure!

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Makes perfect sense to me. Each of us has a simple choice ultimately--life in Christ forever or death forever in the lake of fire.

Now where it gets abstract and open to interpretation is the lake of fire. My opinion is "this is the second death" (absence of life/non-existence) as noted in the verses you quoted from Revelation. It makes the most sense to me because our God is a merciful God: why would he want people to suffer and "roast in hell" forever.

The other view of hell has its roots more in Dante and other classical writers than the Bible. This is the one where unrepentant souls are punished forever with Satan and his demons in hell. There are some passages in the Bible that support this such as the parable of Lazaras and the Rich Man.

Whatever the case, our choice is life for sure!

yeah I used to when I came here think hell was eternal suffering , sister magenta and I discussed it several times comparing scripture and I’ve come to see it as your saying the second death rather than eternal suffering.

when I backed up and considered what she was saying it made more sense to me as well

“And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:11-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

immediately we see and hear this

“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:1‬ ‭

i believe we all have to die according to noir flesh and then our spirit is judged according to Christ and from there we will live forever with him or we will be cast into the fire and destroyed forever

But also i remember why I used to think otherwise those scriptures are there also I think it took a really good talk with a great sister who appreciates scripture we went from ot to nt from genesis to revelation and I was persuaded

In reminded now , that when I was 25 I would have disagreed with most of my convictions about what the Bible says now days and further that we’re all works in progress to some extent when it comes to knowledge and understanding but it’s what we know ourselves that we need to walk in

“Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.”
‭‭James‬ ‭4:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And then also make sure we let others walk in what they have learned from the lord at that time remembering myself at twenty I couldn’t have even began to live up to what I know now back then but the lord only let me know what I could bear at that time

over time we grow up not unlike life we’re born and there’s not alot expected of us nothing really we survive thre first years by the grace and works of our parents to feed and cere for us teach us love us make us a home to grow up in

then as we begin to grow so does what we know of life and responsability we have rooms to clean trash to take our school to attend keep up with , later we grow up more and have cha gong and more responsabilities we go to college and the.n Work or just go from school to work and then later the bills and payments and hard work part begins to become necassary for us to flourish in life

all the while we’re learning and we’re comforted and loved and held but sometimes dad gives us a taste of tough love or maybe mom might have to “tan our hide “ because we crossed that line. We don’t remain babes we become children and then young adults and e e really we are grown mature people

The Christian birth and life is much like that it’s why he uses that term i plight so we humans will understand God better looking at him as our father who loves us and wills that we live forever and not die where as in tbe ot it sounds like he’s going to crush all sinners without mercy in the nt he came to die for them as an atoning sacrifice that they might be saved and live forever with him who died and rose

 

[SilverFox7]

yeah I used to when I came here think hell was eternal suffering , sister magenta and I discussed it several times comparing scripture and I’ve come to see it as your saying the second death rather than eternal suffering.

when I backed up and considered what she was saying it made more sense to me as well

“And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:11-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

immediately we see and hear this

“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:1‬ ‭

i believe we all have to die according to noir flesh and then our spirit is judged according to Christ and from there we will live forever with him or we will be cast into the fire and destroyed forever

But also i remember why I used to think otherwise those scriptures are there also I think it took a really good talk with a great sister who appreciates scripture we went from ot to nt from genesis to revelation and I was persuaded

In reminded now , that when I was 25 I would have disagreed with most of my convictions about what the Bible says now days and further that we’re all works in progress to some extent when it comes to knowledge and understanding but it’s what we know ourselves that we need to walk in

“Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.”
‭‭James‬ ‭4:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And then also make sure we let others walk in what they have learned from the lord at that time remembering myself at twenty I couldn’t have even began to live up to what I know now back then but the lord only let me know what I could bear at that time

over time we grow up not unlike life we’re born and there’s not alot expected of us nothing really we survive thre first years by the grace and works of our parents to feed and cere for us teach us love us make us a home to grow up in

then as we begin to grow so does what we know of life and responsability we have rooms to clean trash to take our school to attend keep up with , later we grow up more and have cha gong and more responsabilities we go to college and the.n Work or just go from school to work and then later the bills and payments and hard work part begins to become necassary for us to flourish in life

all the while we’re learning and we’re comforted and loved and held but sometimes dad gives us a taste of tough love or maybe mom might have to “tan our hide “ because we crossed that line. We don’t remain babes we become children and then young adults and e e really we are grown mature people

The Christian birth and life is much like that it’s why he uses that term i plight so we humans will understand God better looking at him as our father who loves us and wills that we live forever and not die where as in tbe ot it sounds like he’s going to crush all sinners without mercy in the nt he came to die for them as an atoning sacrifice that they might be saved and live forever with him who died and rose

Amen brother. I love Magenta. She is one cool sister for sure!

Most of the references to hell in the Bible come from sheol, which is better translated as the grave.

This growing up thing and especially "the golden years" are quite a challenge. The Lord sure teaches us a lot of important things, and thankfully He is there for us along the way. I used to play softball after work in my 20s. Now, I can barely get out of my chair after a day at work--ouch!

Keep doing your thing in ChristianChat, Pilgrim. You are one cool brother as well!

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Amen brother. I love Magenta. She is one cool sister for sure!

Most of the references to hell in the Bible come from sheol, which is better translated as the grave.

This growing up thing and especially "the golden years" are quite a challenge. The Lord sure teaches us a lot of important things, and thankfully He is there for us along the way. I used to play softball after work in my 20s. Now, I can barely get out of my chair after a day at work--ouch!

Keep doing your thing in ChristianChat, Pilgrim. You are one cool brother as well!

amen brother your always appreciated

i think that death under the ot was different than after this

“Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: and whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?”
‭‭John‬ ‭11:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

hell seems to be a place that holds the wicked u til the judgement we know he’ll ends here after the people on it are raised up

“And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:13-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It seems as if to me hell is sort of an afterlife holding place for the wicked or unbelieving we see then raised up out of hell to face judgement and it seems then as if he’ll itself is destroyed with death remember those two came following the four horsemen ofnthe first seals

“And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭6:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We then see all the chaos and death happen in the book on earth until the judgement when death and he’ll are cast into the flames after the final resurrection

I can’t see this

“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:1-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Coexisting with eternal torment and suffering