Up Up and away

[Pilgrimshope]

So what? There are scores of prophecies in the Old Testament which must be harmonized with the Second Coming of Christ and the events which will follow. And Jerusalem and the future temple in Jerusalem will figure prominently in God's plan for the Kingdom of God on earth.

So Christians cannot say "Oh, that's not in the NT, therefore it is irrelevant". That's how the bogus Replacement Theology came into existence.

So what? There are scores of prophecies in the Old Testament which must be harmonized with the Second Coming of Christ and the events which will follow. And Jerusalem and the future temple in Jerusalem will figure prominently in God's plan for the Kingdom of God on earth.

So Christians cannot say "Oh, that's not in the NT, therefore it is irrelevant". That's how the bogus Replacement Theology came into existence.

“That's how the bogus Replacement Theology came into existence.”

Is this what you’re saying is bogus “ replacement theology ?

“But last of all he sent unto them his son, ( Jesus messiah was sent to Israel as promised ) saying, They will reverence my son.

But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance. And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him. ( they rejected and had him crucified )

When the Lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen? They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, ( is this the bogus part ?) which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.

Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, The same is become the head of the corner: This is the Lord's doing, And it is marvellous in our eyes?

( conclusion )

Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you,

and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭21:38-

I’m not sure isreal killing Jesus and having the kingdom taken from them and given to others is bogus but I mean not really sure about the labels everyone throws around “ replacement theology “ doesn’t mean anything to me

What’s your issue prophecy ?

“But ye are they that forsake the LORD, that forget my holy mountain, that prepare a table for that troop, and that furnish the drink offering unto that number. Therefore will I number you to the sword, and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter: because when I called, ye did not answer; when I spake, ye did not hear; but did evil before mine eyes, and did choose that wherein I delighted not. And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord GOD shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name: ( bogus ?) that he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten, and because they are hid from mine eyes. For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth:

and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭65:11-12, 15-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

seems like the lord planning on “ replacing even all creation …..

I suppose if someone refuses to read what it says and believe it because they already know …it’s probably a bogus theory makes sense though when you reject something it’s because you don’t think it beforehand

 

[douggg]

Yes I believe scripture and it's says the two witnesses kill and torment other people.
That's why they are killed ,because they torment people.

They are not killed for preaching the gospel or doing good.Scripture does not say they do anything good.They kill and torment other people.

The two witnesses kill other people who try to hurt or kill them first. The two witnesses send plagues against the beast's kingdom for the reason of providing cover for the fleeing Jews.


1. They are God's two witnesses.

2. They prophesy

3. In self defense, they kill anyone who tries to hurt them.

4. The beast (who curses God and them in heaven in Revelation 13) makes war on them.


3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

After their bodies lay dead in the streets of Jerusalem, the Spirit of Life "from God" enters them. So they are God's two witnesses, and it is God who brings them back to life, and it is Jesus who says "Come up hither" ascending in a cloud to heaven, as the world looks on, just like the disciples looked on as Jesus Himself was taken up in a cloud to heaven in Acts 1.

11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

The plagues they issue are upon the beast's kingdom to provide cover for the Jews who will be fleeing to the mountains because the abomination of desolation statue image of the beast will have been set up on the temple mount.

The beast will try to stop the two witnesses by sending agents to neutralize the two witnesses. That confrontation goes on for 75 days as the Jews are fleeing (day 1185 when the AoD is setup until day 1260) until the beast is finally able to kill God's two witnesses. And the door of fleeing to the mountains for safety by the Jews is closed by the beast.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Bring taught by the spirit of God is not pride.Its called being blessed.

You have a warped sense of understanding.

1 John 2:27
As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him


There is no greater teacher.

you can't admit your beliefs are of a Jewish belief.

Neither can you accept the holy spirit has not taught you everything you know.

And lastly you don't use the holy spirit as a reason to say your right over other people.

That is not being led of the spirit and is a pretty prideful remark.

Once again I'll leave you to lean on your own understanding 😊

 

[Shilohsfoal]

There will beany arriving in Israel with the two witnesses.

…..I’m saying there is prophecy that belongs to the Old Testament and concerns israel and there is prophecy in the New Testament concerning the world

Listen to what I’m actually saying instead of telling me my position

“The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭24:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that is written in the Old Testament it is not an Old Testament prophecy it’s a witness pertaining to the return of Christ after the New Testament is full . We know it’s a New Testament prophecy because it’s found in the new testement as a prophecy

“But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:10-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬


There is no prophecy in the nt about the rebuilding of Jerusalem or it’s temple because that’s not part of the New Testament
I’m not saying that in the Old Testament nothing Is said about the world I’m saying there are two testaments one of them is applicable to Israel , the other began at Jerusalem and applies to the world

what im saying is the old covenant had a culmination it was when the messiah arrived with the new

“The law and the prophets were until John: ( ot )

since that time the kingdom of God ( nt) is preached, and every man presseth into it.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The old testamen lt prophecies yeah I believe we fulfilled and culminated with the destruction of Jerusalem and its temple bout 2000 years ago and the following Jewish dispersia as the law has always said

The king of the north destroying Jerusalem and all the other cities of the middle east has nothing to do with a rebuilt temple.

Palestine being dissolved by a fiery flying serpent from the north has nothing to do with a rebuilt temple.


29 Rejoice not thou, whole Palestina, because the rod of him that smote thee is broken: for out of the serpent's root shall come forth a cockatrice, and his fruit shall be a fiery flying serpent.

30 And the firstborn of the poor shall feed, and the needy shall lie down in safety: and I will kill thy root with famine, and he shall slay thy remnant.

31 Howl, O gate; cry, O city; thou, whole Palestina, art dissolved: for there shall come from the north a smoke, and none shall be alone in his appointed times.

32 What shall one then answer the messengers of the nation? That the Lord hath founded Zion, and the poor of his people shall trust in it.



This has nothing to do with a rebuilt temple.This is utter destruction coming to the middle east from.the north.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

The two witnesses kill other people who try to hurt or kill them first. The two witnesses send plagues against the beast's kingdom for the reason of providing cover for the fleeing Jews.


1. They are God's two witnesses.

2. They prophesy

3. In self defense, they kill anyone who tries to hurt them.

4. The beast (who curses God and them in heaven in Revelation 13) makes war on them.


3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

After their bodies lay dead in the streets of Jerusalem, the Spirit of Life "from God" enters them. So they are God's two witnesses, and it is God who brings them back to life, and it is Jesus who says "Come up hither" ascending in a cloud to heaven, as the world looks on, just like the disciples looked on as Jesus Himself was taken up in a cloud to heaven in Acts 1.

11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

The plagues they issue are upon the beast's kingdom to provide cover for the Jews who will be fleeing to the mountains because the abomination of desolation statue image of the beast will have been set up on the temple mount.

The beast will try to stop the two witnesses by sending agents to neutralize the two witnesses. That confrontation goes on for 75 days as the Jews are fleeing (day 1185 when the AoD is setup until day 1260) until the beast is finally able to kill God's two witnesses. And the door of fleeing to the mountains for safety by the Jews is closed by the beast.

They are two witnesses.
They kill people,Jesus taught to do recompense evil for evil which the two witnesses do.
They torment people for 1260 days which is 42 months.The same amount of time the false prophet is in Israel giving people the mark of the beast.
They are killed by the beast out of the bottomless Pitt.Not the beast from the sea.
They are raised and ascend up into heaven in a cloud at the same day Jesus kingdom.is come.
God's wrath is given to them which worshiped the beast and recieved it'sark at that time.

18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

you can't admit your beliefs are of a Jewish belief.

Neither can you accept the holy spirit has not taught you everything you know.

And lastly you don't use the holy spirit as a reason to say your right over other people.

That is not being led of the spirit and is a pretty prideful remark.

Once again I'll leave you to lean on your own understanding 😊

Are you sure your leaving this time?

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Are you sure your leaving this time?

yes look I'm leaving you again 😊

 

[Shilohsfoal]

It is by The Holy Spirit of ADONAI that I learn, also. He gave me what to say in my book New Beginnings. HE taught me HOW to forgive. HE taught me how to listen for that still small voice... HE taught ME. I did attend SOME classes for a few years, but after that, HE taught me what I missed, and still is.

He tells us also in Luke 12:11-12 :
And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say: For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.

Luke 21 :12 is a message to the christians in Israel who are persecuted during the time of the two witnesses and their armed forces of the north. The same persecution is found in
Daniel 11:33-35


Wise leaders will give instruction to many, but these teachers will die by fire and sword, or they will be jailed and robbed.
During these persecutions, little help will arrive, and many who join them will not be sincere.
And some of the wise will fall victim to persecution. In this way, they will be refined and cleansed and made pure until the time of the end, for the appointed time is still to come.


This persecution continues untill the two witnesses and their army is dead and Christ is come.


Mathew 10
23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

It is by The Holy Spirit of ADONAI that I learn, also. He gave me what to say in my book New Beginnings. HE taught me HOW to forgive. HE taught me how to listen for that still small voice... HE taught ME. I did attend SOME classes for a few years, but after that, HE taught me what I missed, and still is.

He tells us also in Luke 12:11-12 :
And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say: For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.

There will be an Exodus out of Israel when the two witnesses arrive. The Exodus lasts 1260 days.

Revelation 11
3 And I will appoint my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.

Revelation 12
The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.


These are probably a few of the churches in Israel who do not worship the the Israeli goverment and won't take its mark.Probaly arab christians going to Jordan or elsewhere.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

There will beany arriving in Israel with the two witnesses.



The king of the north destroying Jerusalem and all the other cities of the middle east has nothing to do with a rebuilt temple.

Palestine being dissolved by a fiery flying serpent from the north has nothing to do with a rebuilt temple.


29 Rejoice not thou, whole Palestina, because the rod of him that smote thee is broken: for out of the serpent's root shall come forth a cockatrice, and his fruit shall be a fiery flying serpent.

30 And the firstborn of the poor shall feed, and the needy shall lie down in safety: and I will kill thy root with famine, and he shall slay thy remnant.

31 Howl, O gate; cry, O city; thou, whole Palestina, art dissolved: for there shall come from the north a smoke, and none shall be alone in his appointed times.

32 What shall one then answer the messengers of the nation? That the Lord hath founded Zion, and the poor of his people shall trust in it.



This has nothing to do with a rebuilt temple.This is utter destruction coming to the middle east from.the north.

Thanks again for your opinion on the matter god bless

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Luke 21 :12 is a message to the christians in Israel who are persecuted during the time of the two witnesses and their armed forces of the north. The same persecution is found in
Daniel 11:33-35


Wise leaders will give instruction to many, but these teachers will die by fire and sword, or they will be jailed and robbed.
During these persecutions, little help will arrive, and many who join them will not be sincere.
And some of the wise will fall victim to persecution. In this way, they will be refined and cleansed and made pure until the time of the end, for the appointed time is still to come.


This persecution continues untill the two witnesses and their army is dead and Christ is come.


Mathew 10
23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

….Wise leaders will give instruction to many, but these teachers will die by fire and sword, or they will be jailed and robbed…..

You mean Jerusalem and then Romes mass persecution of christs disciples who were taught by Jesus given his holy spirit , sent to preach the gospel and did miracles and wonders and proclaimed the mysteries hidden in e prophets and law and were slaughtered by the Roman Empire after he ascended to his throne in heaven where his temple actually is ?

Yeah maybe that will happen someday I guess

 

[douggg]

They are two witnesses.
They kill people,Jesus taught to do recompense evil for evil which the two witnesses do.
They torment people for 1260 days which is 42 months.The same amount of time the false prophet is in Israel giving people the mark of the beast.
They are killed by the beast out of the bottomless Pitt.Not the beast from the sea.
They are raised and ascend up into heaven in a cloud at the same day Jesus kingdom.is come.
God's wrath is given to them which worshiped the beast and recieved it'sark at that time.

18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

The beast king, the mortally wounded, but healed head in Revelation 13 on the beast that comes out of the sea - is the beast-king (the heads are kings, Revelation 17:10-11). That person will be possessed by the spirit of the garden of eden serpent beast that will ascend out of the bottomless pit.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The beast king, the mortally wounded, but healed head in Revelation 13 on the beast that comes out of the sea - is the beast-king (the heads are kings, Revelation 17:10-11). That person will be possessed by the spirit of the garden of eden serpent beast that will ascend out of the bottomless pit.




View attachment 260115

Read Daniel chapter seven then revelation chapter 13 and then revelation 17s explaination of the beast with seven heads and ten horns notice what daniels four beasts rising from the sea look like and that they have seven heads also and what johns beast appears like nite also that john says five of these kings have already fallen one is presently in power and one more is going to rise soon for a short period of time

a then notice the information about the 8th king who is of the seven and goeth I to perdition , he’s the o e that goes into the pit and then is brought out in the end for a short rule with ten other kings ( ten horns )

there is a second coming of the beast that was ( is not presently in johns time ) but will ascend out of the pit later the seven heads are about 600bc the beast with the ten horns who is the eight king comes later after “the thousand years “ Satan is bound

Look back at chapter eleven now notice who kills the two witnesses it’s the beast that comes up out of the abyss and goes to war with Jesus and loses

 

[Cameron143]

These two witnesses find themselves on the wrong side of the law because they break their Lords commandments.


Mathew 22

36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.





The two witnesses are the worst neighbors imaginable.Its no wonder they are removed from the earth when Christ kingdom is come.

They certainly seemed that way to the 1st century Jews. The law and the prophets in which they thought would bring them life serve only to bring them condemnation and death.
Do you remember the story of Lazarus and the rich man? The rich man asks Abraham if he can return to his brothers to warn them. Abraham's answer was that it would do no good. Do you remember why? Because if they won't hear Moses and the prophets, they won't believe even if one is raised from the dead.
The Pharisees were right to look to the scriptures for life. But the word of God is a two-edged sword. If it doesn't produce life, it serves to condemn and bring death. It was the word of God (the law and the prophets) that condemned Israel. Thus, the 2 witnesses were Moses, representing the law, and Elijah, representing the prophets.

 

[douggg]

They torment people for 1260 days which is 42 months.The same amount of time the false prophet is in Israel giving people the mark of the beast.

They "prophesy" for 1260 days - not torment people for 1260 days. They don't call the plagues until the abomination of desolation is setup on day 1185, 1335 days before Jesus's returns.

And the only reason they call the plagues is to provide cover for the fleeing Jews. And during the 75 days, the beast-king will send agents to neutralize them - which the two prophets respond with fire coming from their mouths to hold those would-be assassins at bay.

The 42 months of the beast king's rule does not begin until the two witnesses are killed. The 42 months of Revelation 13 and Revelation 11 are the second half of the 7 years.

The 1260 days of the two witnesses - prophesying to the Jews was is about to come regarding their though-to-be messiah - is the first half of the 7 years.

What do you think the two witnesses will be prophesying ?

3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

They certainly seemed that way to the 1st century Jews. The law and the prophets in which they thought would bring them life serve only to bring them condemnation and death.
Do you remember the story of Lazarus and the rich man? The rich man asks Abraham if he can return to his brothers to warn them. Abraham's answer was that it would do no good. Do you remember why? Because if they won't hear Moses and the prophets, they won't believe even if one is raised from the dead.
The Pharisees were right to look to the scriptures for life. But the word of God is a two-edged sword. If it doesn't produce life, it serves to condemn and bring death. It was the word of God (the law and the prophets) that condemned Israel. Thus, the 2 witnesses were Moses, representing the law, and Elijah, representing the prophets.

Great post

“They certainly seemed that way to the 1st century Jews. The law and the prophets in which they they thought would bring them life serve only to bring them condemnation and death.”

“therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.

And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge( gentile rule over them or Babylon Persia Greece Rome ect )? shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.

For the LORD shall rise up as in mount Perazim, he shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that he may do his work, his strange work; and bring to pass his act, his strange act.
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭28:16-18KJV‬‬

“But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭3:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[douggg]

a then notice the information about the 8th king who is of the seven and goeth I to perdition , he’s the o e that goes into the pit and then is brought out in the end for a short rule with ten other kings ( ten horns )

king 7 of Revelation 17:10 will be the little horn person. He will have come to power before the 7 years begin.

How to know...

Is by a study of the heads and horns - kings - in Revelation 17, Revelation 12, Revelation 13.

Revelation 17 (at John's time)

7 heads - no crowns
10 horns - no crowns

-----------------------------------------------

Revelation 12 (the 7 years in that chapter)

7 heads - crowns, the prophesy of the 7 kings completed, the little horn has come to power.
10 horns - no crowns, the little horn has not yet become the beast.

-----------------------------------------------

Revelation 13 (42 months left in that chapter)

7 heads - no crowns, king 7 will have been killed. The prophesy of the 7 kings over. king 7, the little horn will have become the beast (king 8 of Revelation 17:11).
10 horns - crowns, because they will rule with the beast for one hour - the 42 months.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

king 7 of Revelation 17:10 will be the little horn person. He will have come to power before the 7 years begin.

How to know...

Is by a study of the heads and horns - kings - in Revelation 17, Revelation 12, Revelation 13.

Revelation 17 (at John's time)

7 heads - no crowns
10 horns - no crowns

-----------------------------------------------

Revelation 12 (the 7 years in that chapter)

7 heads - crowns, the prophesy of the 7 kings completed, the little horn has come to power.
10 horns - no crowns, the little horn has not yet become the beast.

-----------------------------------------------

Revelation 13 (42 months left in that chapter)

7 heads - no crowns, king 7 will have been killed. The prophesy of the 7 kings over. king 7, the little horn will have become the beast (king 8 of Revelation 17:11).
10 horns - crowns, because they will rule with the beast for one hour - the 42 months.

Wonderful !!!! i see what does this part mean

a you said earlier which I agree with the beast appears to have a deadly wound , but he’s not dead . What do you think rhe significance of that imagery is ?

What do you see in just this ?

“And there are seven kings:

five are fallen, ( past tense )

and one is, ( johns present day tense )

and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. ( we’ve arrived at seven kings correct ?)



(So what’s this here in your view ? )

And the beast that was, (johns past tense )

and is not,( johns present day )

even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of Lords, and King of kings: ( this prophetic for the future from johns time he’s saying it hasn’t happened yet but it will later and it’s not the same as the seventh that was imminent he says th at too ) and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭17:10-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I’m asking what you see on those verses you can not worry about what I said in there but how do you interpret these 18 kings that are given To us in the explaination in chapter seventeen ?

ado you see all of them as future ? Even those he says ( five are fallen , one is current ) and one will rise shortly ? Do you see that part the same tbat he’s showing us past present and also the future from his time ?

this would be easier if you read those chapters I was referencing Daniel 7 , revelation 13, and revelation 17s “ revelation “of it all

what I mean is do you see two sepereted time periods in there ( by the thousand years not literal but ) is what I’m getting at I’m not good at being clear I’m sorry

 

[Pilgrimshope]

So this here

“The beast that thou sawest was,

and is not;

and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition:

and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was,

and is not,

and yet is.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭17:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭11:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I think that’s referring to the end after the gospel is preached when Jesus returns but other parts are applicable to johns pat and also his present and imminent near future there are a lot more reasons but I’m going on here too much I hope you’ll consider I’d like to hear your opinion or thoughts or other scripture


I think I’m seeing maybe possibly two separated time periods in the description of the beast on that was current in johns time and inminent and then one that was far away that occurs at the end of creation is why I’m asking I like what your saying because I recognize it where it came from and need someone else to examine it sorry if I seem pushy hahaha

 

[douggg]

What do you see in just this ?

“And there are seven kings:

five are fallen, ( past tense )

and one is, ( johns present day tense )

and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. ( we’ve arrived at seven kings correct ?)

To understand those verses, it is necessary to consider that in Daniel 9:26-27, the people of the prince who shall come destroyed the city and temple. i.e the Roman army.

So the seven kings in Revelation 17:10 are Roman kings - specifically the Julio-Caludian Caesars.

the five fallen:
1. Julius Caesar
2. Augustus Caesar
3. Tiberius
4. Caligula
5. Claudius

the one is:
6. Nero (the last of the historic Julio-Claudian Caesars).

the one yet to come:
7. the little horn person.
(somewhere in his bloodline either descended from the Julio-Claudians, or that he will just assume the tile of Caesar when he becomes the beast-king)

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The fourth kingdom in Daniel 7 is the Roman Empire. In the end times when the ten kings and the little horn person come to power in the fourth kingdom - the EU has emerged as that kingdom. Interestingly, the EU has its roots in 1957 by the treaty of Rome, creating the Common European Economic Community - i.e. buying and selling (does that sound familiar regarding buying and selling in Revelation 13 ? )

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More things about the person factor into his going into perdition. Revelation 17:10-11, Daniel 7, Daniel 8 - establish him as being associate with the Roman Empire.

Fitted between becoming king 7 and then king 8 of the Roman Empire - is his time as the Antichrist, perceived King of Israel messiah by the Jews.

So this is what we got in the end times about the person - in sequence.

1. emerges as the little horn over a pact of ten EU leaders. king 7 of Revelation 17:10.

2. following Gog/Magog, is the prince who shall come into the middle-east, as peace keeper for the region.

3. anointed the King of Israel (by the false prophet) thought-to-be messiah by the Jews - becoming the Antichrist. He must be a Jew.

4. confirms the Mount Sinai covenant, to begin the seven years (Deuteronomy 31:9-13).

5. takes part in the building of the next temple, animal sacrifices begun again.

6. three years, thereabouts, stops the daily sacrifice, claim to have achieved God-hood. End of his time in the role of the Antichrist.
now has become the revealed man of sin

7. the revealed man of sin assassinated. Ezekiel 28:1-10.

8. temporarily his soul in hell, mocked. God doesn't allow him the honor of being laid to rest in an ornate tomb. Returns his soul to his lifeless body, in open casket funeral. Isaiah 14:18-20.

9. Brought back to life, becomes the beast.

10. The ten EU leaders hand their EU kingdom over to him, to become king 8, dictator of the Roman Empire of the end times. Revelation 17:17.

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So what we have to focus on is how that Roman Empire leader ends up becoming the Antichrist, phony King of Israel thought-to-be-messiah.

Is there such a person around ? imo, yes. Zelensky of Ukraine may be the guy. Too early to tell for certain.