Does the sovereignty of God nullify the grace of God?

[FollowerofShiloh]

on the other hand only a soveriegn God can do this and give his saving grace to someone only because he is sovereign and speaks forth what shall be

If we go solely by the Bible, God's sovereignty went out to the entire world in John 3:16. Even Romans one tells us everyone knows about God and that God has made Himself known to all which makes everyone who lived accountable for their salvation status. It's seems rather clear the "Elect" are merely those who chose to accept God's invitation.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

How can obedience to the Gospel (also called "the obedience of faith") be "salvation by works"? So you really do not understand the purpose of the Gospel.

Now to Him that is of power to stablish you according to my Gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, But now is made manifest, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: (Rom 16:25,26)

The "preaching of Jesus Christ" is to bring sinners to the obedience of faith in Him. That is obedience to the Gospel, and those who do not respond in faith are said to have disobeyed the Gospel: But they have not all obeyed the Gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? (Rom 10:16)

Why is the word "obedience" use? Because (a) God now COMMANDS all men everywhere to repent and (b) God now COMMANDS all men everywhere to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved.

I believe that we have had this conversation before, but I don't mind refreshing your memory.

Jesus did not die for all mankind's sins, only the elect of whom God gave him (John 6 :39) Those that he redeemed were from every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation.(Rev 5:9-10).

God's elect are of the household of Jacob/Israel, which is spiritual Israel, ant there is the remnant of Jacob/Israel (Zeph 3:11-13). Jacob/Israel were disobedient to God and he blinded their eye's to understand the doctrine of Christ, and revealed it to the remnant of Jacob/Israel.

Disobedient Jacob/Israel is referred to, in the scriptures, as the lost sheep of the household of Jacob/Israel. These are who God instructed the remnant to preach to. Not to save (deliver) them eternally, but to save (deliver) them from their ignorance of the doctrine of Christ.

The book of Romans was written by Paul, and directed to the church in Rome who are the called of Jesus Christ (Rom 1:5-7). There is a deliverance (salvation) when a babe in Christ comes unto a knowledge of the truth of Christ's doctrine.

 

[Kroogz]

The book of Romans was written by Paul, and directed to the church in Rome who are the called of Jesus Christ (Rom 1:5-7). There is a deliverance (salvation) when a babe in Christ comes unto a knowledge of the truth of Christ's doctrine.

Heb 5:12~~

For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the actual words of God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

How many times can someone die? .

Scripture says it is appointed unto man to die once, and then the judgment. The second death
is for non-believers. A born again person does not continually or repeatedly die if they sin.

Same words can be interpreted by Greek differently in the scriptures, such as the word die is interpreted as meaning "a separation" The first death is when the elect die to sin in their new spiritual birth. When they pass from this life, their souls goes back to God and he considers them as asleep in the grave.

Those souls who are not God's die their first death, along with their souls, when they pass from this life, and their second death is at the Judgement. God's elect are judged as they live here on earth by God's chastening, and are not judged at the last day.

 

[Magenta]

Same words can be interpreted by Greek differently in the scriptures, such as
the word die is interpreted as meaning "a separation" The first death is when
the elect die to sin in their new spiritual birth. When they pass from this life,
their souls goes back to God and he considers them as asleep in the grave.

Those souls who are not God's die their first death, along with their souls, when they
pass from this life, and their second death is at the Judgment. God's elect are judged
as they live here on earth by God's chastening, and are not judged at the last day.

I find it problematic for you to say any soul does not belong to God. That
they are not considered a child of God is a different matter altogether.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Heb 5:12~~

For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the actual words of God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food.

This scripture inin reference to those who have been born again.

 

[Kroogz]

This scripture inin reference to those who have been born again.

What must I do to be saved?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

I find it problematic for you to say any soul does not belong to God. That
they are not considered a child of God is a different matter altogether.

I respect your dedication to the word of God.

Whom the Lord loveth, he chastens, and scourgest every son whom he receveth

God does not chasten those that are not his elect (Psalms 73) nor judge them until the last day judgement.

 

[Kroogz]

I respect your dedication to the word of God.

Whom the Lord loveth, he chastens, and scourgest every son whom he receveth

God does not chasten those that are not his elect (Psalms 73) nor judge them until the last day judgement.

What is God's will/desire for the non elect?

 

[Magenta]

I respect your dedication to the word of God.

Whom the Lord loveth, he chastens, and scourgest every son whom he receveth

God does not chasten those that are not his elect (Psalms 73) nor judge them until the last day judgement.

So? That does not mean their soul does not belong to God. Think about it.
If they did not belong to Him, what right has He to decide their forever fate?
Plus, He judges ALL.

And thank you...

 

[ForestGreenCook]

What must I do to be saved?

If you are referring to eternally, nothing.

If you are referring to a timely deliverance (salvation) there are many things we must do.

If you are referring to the Jews that Peter was accusing of crucifying Christ, they were already born again, because they have had their heart of stone replaced with a fleshy heart that can be "pricked" to feel spiritual guilt. Notice their response.

If you want to see the response of a heart of stone read Acts 7:54, and notice their response, when they heard Stephen preach the same sermon as the born again Jews heard Peter preach.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

What is God's will/desire for the non elect?

None, he leaves them to their own destruction, read Psalms 73.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

So? That does not mean their soul does not belong to God. Think about it.
If they did not belong to Him, what right has He to decide their forever fate?
Plus, He judges ALL.

And thank you...

God does not decide their fate, he leaves them to their own destruction. If he decided their fate, he would be an unjust God. Why God did not choose all humanity to be saved (delivered) eternally, I know not. Who am I to ask God, What doest thou? (Dan 4:35)

 

[Kroogz]

Kroogz said:
What must I do to be saved?
~~~~~~

If you are referring to eternally, nothing.

Acts 16:31 “And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.”

 

[Shepherd]

None, he leaves them to their own destruction, read Psalms 73.

So, if you have kids, a wife, mother and dad and they just happen not to be "elect"(as you perceive elect to mean), you're ok with that?
Does God love your parents, wife and kids like you do?
Does God love your enemies? (the ones who are lost non-elect sinners)
If God does not love your lost enemies then He requires you to do something He can't or won't.

Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;...............................45That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven:...............

Basically, what it's saying, is "to be like God is, love your enemies". So, if God doesn't really love all those lost people who aren't going to Heaven, then He just lied. And we know that ain't so.

 

[Cameron143]

So, if you have kids, a wife, mother and dad and they just happen not to be "elect"(as you perceive elect to mean), you're ok with that?
Does God love your parents, wife and kids like you do?
Does God love your enemies? (the ones who are lost non-elect sinners)
If God does not love your lost enemies then He requires you to do something He can't or won't.

Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;...............................45That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven:...............

Basically, what it's saying, is "to be like God is, love your enemies". So, if God doesn't really love all those lost people who aren't going to Heaven, then He just lied. And we know that ain't so.

What do you believe the most loving thing God can do?

 

[Kroogz]

Why God did not choose all humanity to be saved (delivered) eternally, I know not. Who am I to ask God, What doest thou? (Dan 4:35)

It's the milk of His word. If a believer cannot answer that simple question......
Heb 5:12~~

For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the actual words of God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food.

The Lord Jesus Christ paid for the sins of the WHOLE world. John 3:16. He propitiated His Father by His life, death And resurrection on the Cross. He reconciled the WHOLE world to Himself. He tore the veil( ALL can come to Him.) Acts 16:31. Equal privilege, equal opportunity.

ALL sin is judged and nailed to the Cross. What we have left is believe or not. Those who believe.....Eternal life. Those who don't believe....Lake of Fire, According to their DEEDS(All sin is judged.)

Rev 20:12~~And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Matt 7~~22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Psalm 9~~7 The LORD reigns forever; he has established his throne for judgment.
8 He rules the world in righteousness and judges the peoples with equity.

 

[John146]

God does not decide their fate, he leaves them to their own destruction. If he decided their fate, he would be an unjust God. Why God did not choose all humanity to be saved (delivered) eternally, I know not. Who am I to ask God, What doest thou? (Dan 4:35)

God never intended one man to end up in hell. Hell was not prepared for man.

Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

And as Magenta explained, man is appointed once to die. No man is appointed to die twice. That was not part of God's plan.

 

[Nehemiah6]

None, he leaves them to their own destruction, read Psalms 73.

How did you miss John 3:17, and the verse before that (and all similar verses)? For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

 

[Magenta]

God does not decide their fate, he leaves them to their own destruction. If he decided their fate, he would be an unjust God. Why God did not choose all humanity to be saved (delivered) eternally, I know not. Who am I to ask God, What doest thou? (Dan 4:35)

You said yourself: HE leaves them to their own destruction. Nobody else is doing it.
He decided on what basis people are saved, or not. Nobody else. Him. God. He has
the right to do that because all belongs to Him. And you seem to be contradicting
yourself. How? You say it is not up to us, because God saves whom He will. And if
He saves whom He wills, He has also unavoidably damned those He does not save.