Does the sovereignty of God nullify the grace of God?

[Thunderrr-mental]

God does not decide their fate, he leaves them to their own destruction. If he decided their fate, he would be an unjust God. Why God did not choose all humanity to be saved (delivered) eternally, I know not. Who am I to ask God, What doest thou? (Dan 4:35)

I believe that all this predetermination view happens to everyone, including yours here.

But my theory on predicting the future or predetermination is based on God can only see so far into the future, but not as far as some people would like to believe. I believe it's probably something like a year at most.

But what people dont realise is God is not controlling time itself, God is just letting people live in a different time to him,

So God can see your life and everything that happens in your life for upto one year ahead.

But this is not fatalism or your whole life set in motion

If anything it gives you the chance to change your life.

As even you can know what is going to happen before it happens.

Maybe it is this way because of other people in your life, or with what is in the world .

But what I also believe is God can bring people out of a time event too

Calvin's doctrine, as far as I have been told, is not the same doctrine as the one that Jesus taught. Calvin's doctrine is very similar, but not right on. If I am not mistaken, he believes that everything mankind does is predestined, and that would make God responsible for mankind's sins.

Calvin's teaching came out of the reformation period in the 1500's, as did most all of the other false doctrines that are in existence today.

The history of the church that Jesus set up, as I have read it, is not in the inspired scriptures, but strictly from history. Some time after the church began, there arose a dispute among two of the elders, as one of them wanted to implicate ways to increase their membership, by adding enticing things to attract people.

The other elder believed that the scripture guidelines of prayer, a cappella singing and preaching was sufficient for God to add to the church daily such as should be saved (delivered) from the things of the world.

As the history goes, The elder's church, that added things to attract more people, grew rapidly in its membership, so much that the Roman empire became concerned with their size, and included them as part of their government, and they became known as the Roman Catholic church, which persecuted the original church, in which scripture says that Paul took part in, which caused them to go into hiding for their worship, known as the dark ages. History says the original church actually increased in membership during this period..

The original church was never a part of the reformation period.

yeah predetermism is basically the human mind inability to rationalise, there life is unfolding in a different time.to God.

But i strongly feal we are only one year at most behind God in time lapse,

Basically God can show you your life for upto one year at most.

That it.

It's quite simple really 😊

 

[Magenta]

Basically God can show you your life for upto one year at most.

Country Joe & The Fish - Vietnam Song

 

[Pilgrimshope]

If we go solely by the Bible, God's sovereignty went out to the entire world in John 3:16. Even Romans one tells us everyone knows about God and that God has made Himself known to all which makes everyone who lived accountable for their salvation status. It's seems rather clear the "Elect" are merely those who chose to accept God's invitation.

“God's sovereignty went out to the entire world in John 3:16. “

Yes I agree completely i would say this is the same

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Only true because he is soveriegn

“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:18-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“It's seems rather clear the "Elect" are merely those who chose to accept God's invitation”

absolutely agree 100 percent

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I find it problematic for you to say any soul does not belong to God. That
they are not considered a child of God is a different matter altogether.

“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“and he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭2:2‬ ‭

“I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭5:32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭KJV‬

“in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Hes been calling for man to repent and turn to him ….. that’s wall we really need to actually do sometimes people just don’t want to because they don’t think the message is worth it orhers believe what they hear and choose it because it’s beautiful

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Country Joe & The Fish - Vietnam Song

nice parker coat 😊

Do you think God would want to rewind someone's life more than one year. Gee wizz could you image how long that would take for the world.

I believe what I do because when I have dreams of the future that comes true, there never more than one year ahead 😀

 

[oyster67]

Does the sovereignty of God nullify the grace of God?


I would say that it magnifies it in many ways. He was gracious and loving purely out of choice, not out of necessity. He gave us a choice because He wanted to, not because He had to.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Country Joe & The Fish - Vietnam Song

bi prefer the thunder songs, it's great lightening 😀

 

[PaulThomson]

Yes this is why preterists are authentic and futurists are insane 😬

Please explain. Sounds interesting.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Kroogz said:
What must I do to be saved?
~~~~~~


Acts 16:31 “And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.”

I think it important to consult a Greek concordance to determine what the meaning of a word means, and the meaning of the word "saved" in this verse means "deliver or protect". There is a deliverance here on earth when a child of God comes unto a knowledge of the truth.

Believing in spiritual things is a result of being born again, Not the cause of being born again.

 

[John146]

I think it important to consult a Greek concordance to determine what the meaning of a word means, and the meaning of the word "saved" in this verse means "deliver or protect". There is a deliverance here on earth when a child of God comes unto a knowledge of the truth.

Believing in spiritual things is a result of being born again, Not the cause of being born again.

This guy didn't need to be delivered from life here in this world. The jailer is obvious looking for salvation from his sins for eternity.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

It's the milk of His word. If a believer cannot answer that simple question......
Heb 5:12~~

Considering 1 Cor 2:14, who is Paul referring to in Heb 5:12? It is those who have been born again spiritually, but are still in need of the milk of the word. Isiah 28:9-10, Whom shall he teach knowledge? And whom shall he make to understand doctrine? Them that are weaned from the milk, and are drawn from the breast. For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line, here a little, and there a little.

A babe in Christ is not the natural man that cannot discern the things of the Spirit, and thinks them to be foolishness.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

The Lord Jesus Christ paid for the sins of the WHOLE world. John 3:16. He propitiated His Father by His life, death And resurrection on the Cross. He reconciled the WHOLE world to Himself. He tore the veil( ALL can come to Him.) Acts 16:31. Equal privilege, equal opportunity.

You have the wrong world in mind. John 3:16 is not talking about the world in John 14:17, John 15:19, John 16:19-20.

The world in John 3:16 is the world of believers only. Those he choose before he formed the world, and gave to his Son to redeem them from their sins, with his promise of their eternal inheritance of heaven (John 6:37-40).

ALL sin is judged and nailed to the Cross. What we have left is believe or not. Those who believe.....Eternal life. Those who don't believe....Lake of Fire, According to their DEEDS(All sin is judged.)

Christ only died for those that were called, the ones that God gave to his Son. (John 10:26-29)

 

[ForestGreenCook]

If we go solely by the Bible, God's sovereignty went out to the entire world in John 3:16. Even Romans one tells us everyone knows about God and that God has made Himself known to all which makes everyone who lived accountable for their salvation status. It's seems rather clear the "Elect" are merely those who chose to accept God's invitation.

Mankind, according to the harmonizing scriptures, does not have an invitation from God to accept their eternal inheritance of heaven,

Jesus's sacrifice for the sins of those that his Father gave him, was a sacrifice that was offered to God for his acceptance, and not to mankind for their acceptance.

The elect does not choose their eternal inheritance of heaven. God did the choosing (Eph 1:4) and God also predestinated them to be adopted, by his Son, to be his adopted children according to the good pleasure of his will (Eph 1:5)

You, evidently, do not understand exactly how awful a child of God can be when they are walking in their flesh, as Romans 1 teaches.

Rev 20:12~~And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Those that are not of his elect will be judged out of the first book. The elect will be judged out of the book of life.

Matt 7~~22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

The kingdom of heaven is one of the names of Christ's church, as is the kingdom of God, Zion, the new Jerusalem, the church in the wilderness, and more. Those of disobedient Israel who practice lawlessness, the invisible church,

Psalm 9~~7 The LORD reigns forever; he has established his throne for judgment.
8 He rules the world in righteousness and judges the peoples with equity.

8) And he shall judge the world in righteousness (to the world of people in uprightness)
will not be allowed into the strait gate of Matthew 7, which is the visible church who have the knowledge of the doctrine of Christ

The entirety of the church is represented as the house of Jacob/Israel, which is spiritual Israel. Most of spiritual Israel were disobedient to God, and God blinded their eyes to understand Christ's doctrine, but can be grafted back into his fellowship when they repent, and come unto a knowledge of the truth of Christ's doctrine.

God left in the mist of spiritual Israel a remnant that he revealed a knowledge of Christ's doctrine (Zeph 3:11-13).

this harmonizes with the two gates in Matt 7:13-14. The wide gate being disobedient Israel who is blinded to see the doctrine of Christ, and the strait gate being the remnant leading to enjoy a good and peaceful life here on earth, without fear.

Ezekiel 10, especially verse 10, also harmonizes, the larger outer wheel being disobedient Israel, and the inner smaller wheel being the remnant. Both gates are of the elect, and will inherit eternal heaven.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Mankind, according to the harmonizing scriptures, does not have an invitation from God to accept their eternal inheritance of heaven,

Jesus's sacrifice for the sins of those that his Father gave him, was a sacrifice that was offered to God for his acceptance, and not to mankind for their acceptance.

The elect does not choose their eternal inheritance of heaven. God did the choosing (Eph 1:4) and God also predestinated them to be adopted, by his Son, to be his adopted children according to the good pleasure of his will (Eph 1:5)

You, evidently, do not understand exactly how awful a child of God can be when they are walking in their flesh, as Romans 1 teaches.

You obviously don't understand when Paul speaks about fore-ordained, predestined, he is speaking about that before God created the earth, He predestined/for-ordained/elected that in order for humans to be saved it would be through Jesus Christ. But people, who actually do not understand, try to apply this to Christians themselves.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

How did you miss John 3:17, and the verse before that (and all similar verses)? For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

You are ignoring the other world that God does not love. John 15:19, John 17:2, John 14:17 Romans 9:13-16.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

You said yourself: HE leaves them to their own destruction. Nobody else is doing it.
He decided on what basis people are saved, or not. Nobody else. Him. God. He has
the right to do that because all belongs to Him. And you seem to be contradicting
yourself. How? You say it is not up to us, because God saves whom He will. And if
He saves whom He wills, He has also unavoidably damned those He does not save.

We would have all gone to hell, had he not chosen some to redeem them from their sins. Why God did not choose all humanity, I do not know. the scriptures do not reveal that, and we are not to question God about what he does (Dan 4:35). He did reveal, in the scriptures why he choose some, and that was so he would have some people that would honor and praise him.

 

[Magenta]

We would have all gone to hell, had he not chosen some to redeem them from their sins. Why God did not choose all humanity, I do not know. the scriptures do not reveal that, and we are not to question God about what he does (Dan 4:35). He did reveal, in the scriptures why he choose some, and that was so he would have some people that would honor and praise him.

And it was God and God alone Who decided that.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Before creating the earth, God predestines/fore-ordained/elects that Jesus is how people can be saved. He then sends Jesus to bring salvation to the world and Jesus even tells us anyone "whoever believes" will be saved. The words are very clear. You believe, you are saved. You do not believe, you are not saved.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

You obviously don't understand when Paul speaks about fore-ordained, predestined, he is speaking about that before God created the earth, He predestined/for-ordained/elected that in order for humans to be saved it would be through Jesus Christ. But people, who actually do not understand, try to apply this to Christians themselves.

I agree with you that God elected a people before he formed the world, and he gave them to his Son to redeem them from their sins. Where we disagree, is that those that he elected were not all of the inhabitants of the earth.

Christ died for only those that God gave him, and promised them an inheritance of eternal heaven.(John 6:37-40) The reason that he had to choose anyone, is that he saw that no one would seek him, no, not one. Those that were not chosen and redeemed are still not seeking him.

We would have all went to hell, had he not chosen some.

 

[Shepherd]

What do you believe the most loving thing God can do?

Most loving thing God can do? That I don't know. But the most loving thing He has revealed to US was when the Lord of Hosts, the mighty King of Glory, came down and gave himself for the sins of the whole world, to taste death for every man, and do it all willing that all men might come to repentance. And, in the end, the revealed knowledge of that, of offering Himself and dying, loving the whole world, even His enemies, will be FAR more glorious than anything else I have heard so far. His great love will be revealed to all. But it will be too late for many, because they chose not to let the King of Glory into their hearts.