Predestination is misunderstood...

[ForestGreenCook]

Once in Christ through believing the gospel, the believer's future has been determined, "predestined." The believer is predestined to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ. This occurs at the future adoption which is the redemption of the body. In the present moment, I am a child of God, but I don't appear to be a child of God. That all will change one day at the redemption, the resurrection and gathering of the body of Christ.

The adoption is already in progress. The adoption process goes as follows; 1. The Father chooses the child, not the child choosing the Father. 2. The price must be paid, which was paid on the cross. 3. The final phase of the adoption is when the Father takes his chosen children home.

 

[Magenta]

Predestination has nothing to do with free will.

Nor did I say it did. Did you miss the point of what I actually said?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

There is a point in time when God knows a man. "But now, after ye...are known of God." God has to know a man as one of his before he predestinates that man to the future redemption.

Galatians 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

How does God know who are his? A man must have God's seal which is his Holy Spirit. Once a man believes the gospel, God puts his Spirit, his seal, in the man. God now knows this man as one of his.

1 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

God knew his elected children before he formed the world. His children, get to know him gradually after they have been born again as new born babes in Christ. They are first fed the milk of the word, and as they mature they gain more and more knowledge. If we are student's of the word, we never quit growing in knowledge.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

"Free will" is only used in Scripture as a freewill offering...

Whereas it is clearly taught that man is a slave.

And slaves are not free.

Magenta, correct me if I am wrong, but I understand the scriptures to teach that God gave mankind the freedom to choose the way he wants to live his live here on earth and all mankind choose not to seek him (Psalms 53:1-3)

Don't we become a slave to God after we are born spiritually?

 

[Magenta]

Magenta, correct me if I am wrong, but I understand the scriptures to teach that God gave mankind the freedom to choose the way he wants to live his live here on earth and all mankind choose not to seek him (Psalms 53:1-3)

Don't we become a slave to God after we are born spiritually?

Sure. And before that, men are slaves to sin.

 

[John146]

God knew his elected children before he formed the world. His children, get to know him gradually after they have been born again as new born babes in Christ. They are first fed the milk of the word, and as they mature they gain more and more knowledge. If we are student's of the word, we never quit growing in knowledge.

Is that what Galatians says? Let's stick with scripture.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

They are first fed the milk of the word, and as they mature they gain more and more knowledge. If we are student's of the word, we never quit growing in knowledge.

Yes, ideally this is as it should be - what about the "elected children" who are
not becoming mature, but are rebellious?

 

[John146]

Don't we become a slave to God after we are born spiritually?

Scripture please....servant is the biblically description.

 

[John146]

God knew his elected children before he formed the world. His children, get to know him gradually after they have been born again as new born babes in Christ. They are first fed the milk of the word, and as they mature they gain more and more knowledge. If we are student's of the word, we never quit growing in knowledge.

According to scripture, how does the Lord know who are his?

1 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Sure. And before that, men are slaves to sin.

Sure. And before that, men are slaves to sin.

You are exactly right. Thanks for keeping me in line. My wife says that I can concentrate on one subject at a time, and she is correct, but by doing that, at the end I feel that I have researched it completely.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Is that what Galatians says? Let's stick with scripture.

I know what it does not say, and that is God does not know a man until a certain time in his life, and the other statements that you have made that you think Galatians supports.

Lets not only stick with scripture, lets also interpret them right.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

According to scripture, how does the Lord know who are his?

1 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

He knew them all before he formed the world, and even wrote their names in the book of life (Rev 17:8)

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Scripture please....servant is the biblically description.

Matt 10:24 among many others.

 

[Blade]

Hmm ok ok .. I see my self driving and follow ya.. wait.. ok now I have no clue where I am haha.

Were talking about GOD who has always been and with Him its faith "Declaring the end from the beginning" "I am God, and there is none like me. I declare from the beginning how it will end and foretell from the start what has not yet happened. I decree that my purpose will stand, and I will fulfill my every plan. "

Yeah so easy to get lost here. Say I was trying to go to a store I really liked yet every time (I was driving) I tied to get over that traffic stopped me so I ended up going where I didn't want to. Man this whole day is awful. Had to move to an apartment I never wanted. So checking out of the store I smiled to the cashier and went to my "new" pffft apparent.

Every choice here I freely made right? This happened in someones life. Just saying using me. So lets look at what I didn't see. It was God using the traffic so I went to (makes me cry. wow) store I didn't want to where I smiled to a cashier and she thought "ooh must be a Christian I wish I was that happy" where that next weekend because of a simple smile she found Christ was saved. That old awful apartment? Never heard all the demons screaming, running because I was there now. But not me CHRIST!

See one could think God was going our will yet He could do this because we have always prayed "lord you will be done not mine. You do what ever you want in my life". That only works if I mean it from my heart.

Free will? Yes and yet what is also true is "predestined"

 

[John146]

I know what it does not say, and that is God does not know a man until a certain time in his life, and the other statements that you have made that you think Galatians supports.

Lets not only stick with scripture, lets also interpret them right.

Let us look again... "But now, after that ye...are known of God..."

Galatians 4:Galatians 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

 

[John146]

He knew them all before he formed the world, and even wrote their names in the book of life (Rev 17:8)

I posted scripture stating exactly how God knows a man, and you give your opinions. That shows you are following a man's theology and not the bible.

 

[John146]

Matt 10:24 among many others.

Ok, and...

24 The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.

 

[studentoftheword]

"For He chose us in Him before the foundation

My view on this -----

I do not believe that my Salvation came about by my choice to be in Christ ---My Salvation was planned and was brought about before God Created this world ------I believe God Pre Planned Redemption and Pre Appointed the Death and Resurrection of His Son Jesus Christ and Chose us to be His Own Through Christ ------

God chose us ----to come to salvation IN CHRIST ----not away from Christ

Many have interpreted this verse in a couple of ways ----

Some say -- -----God's Sovereignty suggest Humans are not involved at all -----God chooses some and not others to be saved

Same say -----God does not express His Sovereignty and the person makes their own choice to come to God and be saved or not ---

I believe This 3rd one is a more accurate interpretation -----God---- Has -already expressed His Sovereignty as He chose us before the Foundation of the World ---


Ephesians 1:4 AMP B
4 just as [in His love] He chose us in Christ [actually selected us for Himself as His own] before the foundation of the world, so that we would be holy [that is, consecrated, set apart for Him, purpose-driven] and blameless in His sight. In love

I say -------And He places the responsibility of inbirthing the right Faith needed for Salvation upon the individual person -


Ephesians 2:8-9 CE B

8 You are saved by God’s grace because of your faith.[a] This salvation is God’s gift. It’s not something you possessed. 9 It’s not something you did that you can be proud of.

So we see that both God's Sovereignty and the responsibility of Humanity to hear the Gospel which inbirths the right Fain in the Person ----is evident here ------

 

[Genez]

I’m not arguing.
You basically said the same thing you said before.

So I’m saying the same thing I said before.

I don’t see how any of what you just wrote negates the fact that He chose us. Not the other way around.

You missed my point in starting this thread.

I was untangling an error of Calvinism's thinking.

The being. That he did not simply choose us.
But, that He chose us IN Him.

Your expression? It is too ambiguous to accomplish that understanding, and would leave the Calvinist feeling free to continue being mislead.

Tell you what..

When it stops saying "in Him" you can come back and we will discuss some more.

grace and peace .............

 

[Genez]

Wondering..

How many here who are trying to find ways to change what I concluded are Calvinists?



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