Predestination is misunderstood...
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That's not thinking it through if you are referring to all believers who are not the Church.
Moses and King David were definitely Jews, and remained as such. They were OT believers.
Yes... There is neither Jew nor Greek in Christ. His Church.
For it says we are a New Creation in Christ.
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation.
The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. "
2 Corinthians 5:17
The Greek word translated "new" means specifically something new that never existed before.The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. "
2 Corinthians 5:17
That right there eliminates all OT believers who were believers before the Church age began.
lol don't you mean people have there own ideas...
Presentations of predestination, is aimed primary at two points of view, one from Calvinists, and one from people like your self, both points are related to salvation, obviously, most people would favour predestined into adoption, of you choose Jesus. Obviously Calvin's would say differently.
But really shouldn't presentation of predestination be about something else. Other than salvation
Should it not be about predictions, that could happen but may not need to happen.
Or should it be about God knowing the future, and where does God say he knows the future.
Should it not be about how long he can he see into the future, or even how he can see into the future.
Theres many other points to discuss about predestination, like God telling a person what to say. Or God changing the outcome of an event, so is there any chance that prophecy may have been mistaken for prediction on some cases. Where by prediction does not need to happen.
Presentations of predestination, is aimed primary at two points of view, one from Calvinists, and one from people like your self, both points are related to salvation, obviously, most people would favour predestined into adoption, of you choose Jesus. Obviously Calvin's would say differently.
But really shouldn't presentation of predestination be about something else. Other than salvation
Should it not be about predictions, that could happen but may not need to happen.
Or should it be about God knowing the future, and where does God say he knows the future.
Should it not be about how long he can he see into the future, or even how he can see into the future.
Theres many other points to discuss about predestination, like God telling a person what to say. Or God changing the outcome of an event, so is there any chance that prophecy may have been mistaken for prediction on some cases. Where by prediction does not need to happen.
Slaves exercise free will as much as anyone else. Oherwise why would Paul tell the Colossian slaves -
"Col.3:22 Bondservants, obey in everything those who are your earthly masters, not by way of eye-service, as people-pleasers, but with sincerity of heart, fearing the Lord. 23 Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men, 24 knowing that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward. You are serving the Lord Christ. 25 For the wrongdoer will be paid back for the wrong he has done, and there is no partiality."
"Col.3:22 Bondservants, obey in everything those who are your earthly masters, not by way of eye-service, as people-pleasers, but with sincerity of heart, fearing the Lord. 23 Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men, 24 knowing that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward. You are serving the Lord Christ. 25 For the wrongdoer will be paid back for the wrong he has done, and there is no partiality."
Looks like you missed the point also, and I already know you disagree about this, although having the
ability to make choices does not nullify the fact that the will is constrained by many factors. In fact,
Scripture teaches, in the words of Jesus: "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him."
Jesus’ words in John 6:65
ability to make choices does not nullify the fact that the will is constrained by many factors. In fact,
Scripture teaches, in the words of Jesus: "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him."
Jesus’ words in John 6:65
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Moses was not. David was not. And,John the Baptist was not.
Do you know what it means to be the Bride of Christ?
Not everyone's resurrection body is going to be like His and His Bride's.
Some will have their everlasting Home on the New Earth.
The Kingdom the Jews were waiting for was to be on the New Earth, not in Heaven.
The Church on the other hand has its citizenship in Heaven!
But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior
Do you know what it means to be the Bride of Christ?
Not everyone's resurrection body is going to be like His and His Bride's.
Some will have their everlasting Home on the New Earth.
The Kingdom the Jews were waiting for was to be on the New Earth, not in Heaven.
The Church on the other hand has its citizenship in Heaven!
But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior
from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who, by the power that enables
him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly
bodies so that they will be like his glorious body."
Philippians 3:20-21
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God foresaw that no one would seek him, no, not one (Psalms 53:1-3). God choose his elect from among those who did not seek him and left the others to their own destruction. All of his elect, whom Christ died for, are included in his church, his kingdom, his bride.
His church consists of two parts. Spiritual Israel = 1. The lost sheep of the house of Israel/Jacob. 2. The remnant of Israel/Jacob (Zeph 3:11-13). God's sheep represents God's elect.(John 10:26-30).
Although, the lost sheep have the promise of an eternal inheritance of heaven, they are lost to a knowledge of the truth, because God has blinded their eyes because of their disobedience, (2 Cor 3:13-14) however if they repent, through hearing the word preached, and taught, by the remnant, and come unto a knowledge of the truth, they will be saved (delivered) from their ignorance of the truth.(Rom 10:1-3)
Ezk 10, especially verse 10 relates to the two parts of the church. The larger, outer wheel being blinded Israel, (which I call the invisible church) and the smaller inner wheel being the remnant (which I call the visible church).
The visible church, the remnant, have been revealed the knowledge of the truth, and the invisible church, the lost sheep, who are going about preaching, and teaching false doctrines.
I believe this also harmonizes with the two gates in Matt 7:13-14. The wide gate being the lost sheep, and the strait gate being the remnant. These two gates representing the total of God's elect (the kingdom of Christ, his church), that will inherit heaven.
Your theory is shot full of holes by contradicting scriptures.
Whereas it is clearly taught that man is a slave.
What if this is true
“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.”
John 8:31-32, 34-36 KJV
and what if this is true
“What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.”
Romans 6:15-18 KJV
“For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another. This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.”
Galatians 5:13-
If we don’t hear what is being said we would never have the choice to be free we would be stuck in slavery but the truth brings repentance and freedom
“And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
2 Timothy 2:24-26 KJV
We have to look at the new free creation and begin to live by him and let the old slave go sin is no longer our master but if we don’t hear what Paul’s explaining we’ll never know
“Likewise reckon ye ( think this way about it ) also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. ( don’t let sin control you )
Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: ( stop thinking it’s okay to commit sin )
but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.( start thinking of yourself as a person who’s committed to doing the good and right things )
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.”
Romans 6:11-14 KJV
Sin doesn’t have the same power over you because you died to the law and your sins were all remitted in Christs death ect
paul is saying these things teaching the church to think this way to believe that you were buried with Christ and are now born anew as a different person on isnt juet a powerless sinner slave but instead who died and is raised up to a brand new life alive to God and dead to the sins we used to live in
its a faith we have to start believing we’re free and can choose or we never will if we always believe “ we just slaves to sin grace excuses it all “ that’s not what Grace does it changes those Albee to sin and makes them free and able but if we remove the repentance and obedience part grace becomes a reason it’s okay to keep sinning because we’re just slaves and can’t be free can’t choose …….The Gospel declares the opposite to believers “ follow Me and be set free for real from slavery to sin “
What if this is true
“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.”
John 8:31-32, 34-36 KJV
and what if this is true
“What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.”
Romans 6:15-18 KJV
“For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another. This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.”
Galatians 5:13-
If we don’t hear what is being said we would never have the choice to be free we would be stuck in slavery but the truth brings repentance and freedom
“And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
2 Timothy 2:24-26 KJV
We have to look at the new free creation and begin to live by him and let the old slave go sin is no longer our master but if we don’t hear what Paul’s explaining we’ll never know
“Likewise reckon ye ( think this way about it ) also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. ( don’t let sin control you )
Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: ( stop thinking it’s okay to commit sin )
but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.( start thinking of yourself as a person who’s committed to doing the good and right things )
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.”
Romans 6:11-14 KJV
Sin doesn’t have the same power over you because you died to the law and your sins were all remitted in Christs death ect
paul is saying these things teaching the church to think this way to believe that you were buried with Christ and are now born anew as a different person on isnt juet a powerless sinner slave but instead who died and is raised up to a brand new life alive to God and dead to the sins we used to live in
its a faith we have to start believing we’re free and can choose or we never will if we always believe “ we just slaves to sin grace excuses it all “ that’s not what Grace does it changes those Albee to sin and makes them free and able but if we remove the repentance and obedience part grace becomes a reason it’s okay to keep sinning because we’re just slaves and can’t be free can’t choose …….The Gospel declares the opposite to believers “ follow Me and be set free for real from slavery to sin “