Can anyone else define these terms as they are used in the Bible?
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Sorry it has taken me some time to get back I just have nor made the time to get back to many things going on at home. When I speak about reasoning when the bible, God, Jesus, interpret something that is what it means; or if you look up a word in the Strong's Hebrew or Greek use that definition. In Matthew 13
Matthew 13:36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and the disciples came unto him saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
The disciples did not understand the parable; So Jesus had to explain it to them (and us).
Verse 37. He answered and said unto them He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; Who is the Son of man? Jesus. Jesus is the sower of the good seed. He gives us the seed to sow. In the parable He had helpers. Sharpen up because here comes on of those things we need to reason about but not fight over. Verse 38. The field is the world. [ Matthew 24:38 For in the days of the flood, people were eating, drinking, marrying and given in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark. 39. And they were oblivious, until the flood came and swept them all away. So will it be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40. Two men will be working in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41. To women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left.
It was Noah and his family and every thing on the ark that were saved everyone else was lost. It is an example of the end times. Two men will be working in the field (the world) one will be taken; washed away as in the flood, this will be taken in not by the water but by Satan(as you can read in the parable of the wheat and the tares) The same with Verse 41 Two woman will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left.] Lets pick this back up in Matthew 13:38. The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one.
This should be easy to understand and there should be no disagreement; There are only 2 teams in the world Team Jesus and Team Satan, and there will be a lot of unhappy people.
39. The enemy that sowed them is the wicked one; (Satan sowed the evil seed. What did Jesus say to the religious rulers of His time? Ye are the father the Devil; the same would be said by Him today if He were here in the flesh. If [the biggest little word in the bible] you have eyes to see with and ears to hear with you can see what is going on and understand what is happening.]) THE HARVEST IS THE END OF THE WORLD; and the reapers are the angles. Verse 40. As therefore the tears are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of the world. 41. The Son of Man shall send forth His angles, and they shall gather out of the kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.43. THEN (not before this but after all this takes place) shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. WHO HATH EARS TO HEAR, LET HIM HEAR. Do you have ears to hear with and eyes to see with so you can understand the order of things.
Yes it is saying just what you thank it is saying. Satan and His children are taken first, and then the children of God are gathered together. Right here on earth
Zechariah14:4 And His foot shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives, shall cleave in the midst thereof, toward the east and the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half toward the south.
This is spoken of in Ezekiel and the valley will be 60 miles by 60 miles. This is where the millennium temple will be set up and where Jesus will rule for a thousand years before the thorn of God descends from Heaven and God sets in judgment opens the book and everyone is given their just rewards; some to eternal damnation and other to eternal glory each according to his or her works.
You can read of it in Ezekiel 40-48. There is more written about the millennium in these chapters than the entire book of Revelation.
This is what I mean about come let us reason together. This comes right from God's word. There are many other places that say the same type of thing, I am willing to discuss them if you have an open mind, I am open to being shown that I am misreading it.
In His Love Ken
Matthew 13:36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and the disciples came unto him saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
The disciples did not understand the parable; So Jesus had to explain it to them (and us).
Verse 37. He answered and said unto them He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; Who is the Son of man? Jesus. Jesus is the sower of the good seed. He gives us the seed to sow. In the parable He had helpers. Sharpen up because here comes on of those things we need to reason about but not fight over. Verse 38. The field is the world. [ Matthew 24:38 For in the days of the flood, people were eating, drinking, marrying and given in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark. 39. And they were oblivious, until the flood came and swept them all away. So will it be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40. Two men will be working in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41. To women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left.
It was Noah and his family and every thing on the ark that were saved everyone else was lost. It is an example of the end times. Two men will be working in the field (the world) one will be taken; washed away as in the flood, this will be taken in not by the water but by Satan(as you can read in the parable of the wheat and the tares) The same with Verse 41 Two woman will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left.] Lets pick this back up in Matthew 13:38. The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one.
This should be easy to understand and there should be no disagreement; There are only 2 teams in the world Team Jesus and Team Satan, and there will be a lot of unhappy people.
39. The enemy that sowed them is the wicked one; (Satan sowed the evil seed. What did Jesus say to the religious rulers of His time? Ye are the father the Devil; the same would be said by Him today if He were here in the flesh. If [the biggest little word in the bible] you have eyes to see with and ears to hear with you can see what is going on and understand what is happening.]) THE HARVEST IS THE END OF THE WORLD; and the reapers are the angles. Verse 40. As therefore the tears are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of the world. 41. The Son of Man shall send forth His angles, and they shall gather out of the kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.43. THEN (not before this but after all this takes place) shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. WHO HATH EARS TO HEAR, LET HIM HEAR. Do you have ears to hear with and eyes to see with so you can understand the order of things.
Yes it is saying just what you thank it is saying. Satan and His children are taken first, and then the children of God are gathered together. Right here on earth
Zechariah14:4 And His foot shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives, shall cleave in the midst thereof, toward the east and the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half toward the south.
This is spoken of in Ezekiel and the valley will be 60 miles by 60 miles. This is where the millennium temple will be set up and where Jesus will rule for a thousand years before the thorn of God descends from Heaven and God sets in judgment opens the book and everyone is given their just rewards; some to eternal damnation and other to eternal glory each according to his or her works.
You can read of it in Ezekiel 40-48. There is more written about the millennium in these chapters than the entire book of Revelation.
This is what I mean about come let us reason together. This comes right from God's word. There are many other places that say the same type of thing, I am willing to discuss them if you have an open mind, I am open to being shown that I am misreading it.
In His Love Ken
That's what free will is all about.
A free will can exert itself at any time unrestrained by any external mechanism. A person can make decisions apart from God's desire. Apart from tradition. Apart from religious background. Apart from peer pressure. On and on it goes.
So do we have a free will that can make fully independent decisions?
Obviously, no one can have a perfect free will, that is impossible.
We would need to accurately define the level of free will that we actually possess.
This is a very complex matter.
A free will can exert itself at any time unrestrained by any external mechanism. A person can make decisions apart from God's desire. Apart from tradition. Apart from religious background. Apart from peer pressure. On and on it goes.
So do we have a free will that can make fully independent decisions?
Obviously, no one can have a perfect free will, that is impossible.
We would need to accurately define the level of free will that we actually possess.
This is a very complex matter.
To make a decision between your multiple competing desires/wiils, you need to weigh and assess the moral values and outcomes of the potential preferences. Therefore no one, not even God chooses between desires without having reasons. The notion of free will being the ability to make fully independent decisions is a flawed definition of free will. ot even God has free will by that criterion.
The will of God is simple as he exclaimed it from the start. The whole of the bible is predicated on what his will is. He said come let us make man in our image. The verses before shows how that works in unison with his will as he built man a ecosystem to live in. The verses in the bible after that fit in unison as to how he will accomplish his will and how he has accomplished his will.
When God said I am the Lord and change not therefore you are not consumed. He spoke by assurance that mankind had nothing to fear as his will will come to pass. When the angels appeared and said fear not to the shepherds, because they came with great tidings of news. Christ was being born. God himself was present upon the earth to fulfill that will.
When Christ spoke that the will of the Father was to believe on the son. He said so because the will is we do believe and that we do surrender. Being made over into the person of Christ. Fulfilling what God's will has been from the very start that man be in his image.
God says of himself he is love. Man was created in that image and we fell. We had a love problem from the start and you can't be in the image of God if love is your problem. The garden the tree showed our failing. As you can't have love without choice and you can't have choice absent free will.
Adam spoke truth when they fell, he said the woman that you gave me gave me to eat and I did so. That is a fact Adam was never tempted to touch the fruit prior to Eve. We read nowhere how he was tempted of the devil prior to eat of it. The fruit was never a temptation to Adam.
He foolish blamed God for that though. As while he was correct he never fell prey to eat of the fruit prior to Eve. What he did not realize when he was blaming God. Is he was in fact guilty as God tempts no man with sin and Adam was tempted with sin when he was led away by his own lust.
Adam loved Eve more than God. As it written if you love me you will keep my commandments. God commanded don't eat, Eve said eat. God pointed that out to Adam he said you have not done what I commanded you, but hearkened unto your wife. Adam loved Eve more than God but in truth he loved himself more than God.
As Paul points out in Romans 1 man can love the creation more than the creator, love the gift more than the gifter. Adam loved the gift of Eve more so than God, Adam loved himself more. However, God's will was not to be thwarted as he would make a way so that in the end when we read the book of Revelation we find that the author and the finisher gets his will. To which he rubs it in the face of Satan who used death and the fear of it to separate us from God.
Go takes the win as he proclaims and they loved not their lives even unto the death and his will is accomplished by his strength and the death he tasted for us.
So the will of God was established from the beginning he made it known as he said come let us make man in our image. Then he show's us all he has done to make his will come to pass and he get's what he wanted from the start.
When God said I am the Lord and change not therefore you are not consumed. He spoke by assurance that mankind had nothing to fear as his will will come to pass. When the angels appeared and said fear not to the shepherds, because they came with great tidings of news. Christ was being born. God himself was present upon the earth to fulfill that will.
When Christ spoke that the will of the Father was to believe on the son. He said so because the will is we do believe and that we do surrender. Being made over into the person of Christ. Fulfilling what God's will has been from the very start that man be in his image.
God says of himself he is love. Man was created in that image and we fell. We had a love problem from the start and you can't be in the image of God if love is your problem. The garden the tree showed our failing. As you can't have love without choice and you can't have choice absent free will.
Adam spoke truth when they fell, he said the woman that you gave me gave me to eat and I did so. That is a fact Adam was never tempted to touch the fruit prior to Eve. We read nowhere how he was tempted of the devil prior to eat of it. The fruit was never a temptation to Adam.
He foolish blamed God for that though. As while he was correct he never fell prey to eat of the fruit prior to Eve. What he did not realize when he was blaming God. Is he was in fact guilty as God tempts no man with sin and Adam was tempted with sin when he was led away by his own lust.
Adam loved Eve more than God. As it written if you love me you will keep my commandments. God commanded don't eat, Eve said eat. God pointed that out to Adam he said you have not done what I commanded you, but hearkened unto your wife. Adam loved Eve more than God but in truth he loved himself more than God.
As Paul points out in Romans 1 man can love the creation more than the creator, love the gift more than the gifter. Adam loved the gift of Eve more so than God, Adam loved himself more. However, God's will was not to be thwarted as he would make a way so that in the end when we read the book of Revelation we find that the author and the finisher gets his will. To which he rubs it in the face of Satan who used death and the fear of it to separate us from God.
Go takes the win as he proclaims and they loved not their lives even unto the death and his will is accomplished by his strength and the death he tasted for us.
So the will of God was established from the beginning he made it known as he said come let us make man in our image. Then he show's us all he has done to make his will come to pass and he get's what he wanted from the start.
The Matthew 13 passage is referring to things surrounding His Second Coming TO THE EARTH (FOR the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age, aka "the age [singular] to come" 12:32). Its *context* is NOT "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]" which takes place in the EXACT OPPOSITE SEQUENCE from that being spoken of in this Mt13 context where the angels [/reapers] will be told to "gather ye FIRST the TARES...". (Not so, when it comes to "our Rapture" event, which is completely distinct from this and not what Matt13's context is covering the Subject of.)
[Matt13:24,30,39,40,49-50 = "the end [singular] of the age [singular]" and was the basis of the disciples' LATER question to Him in Matt24:3 and His response in two chapters... re: the EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom, and who will ENTER it upon His "RETURN" to the earth... i.e. "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding..." Lk12:36-37,40 etc]
[Matt13:24,30,39,40,49-50 = "the end [singular] of the age [singular]" and was the basis of the disciples' LATER question to Him in Matt24:3 and His response in two chapters... re: the EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom, and who will ENTER it upon His "RETURN" to the earth... i.e. "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding..." Lk12:36-37,40 etc]
This verse came to mind:Mark 7:24 -
King James Bible
And from thence he arose, and went into the borders of Tyre and Sidon, and entered into an house, and would have [G2309 - thelō ] no man know it: but he could not be hid.
New King James Version
From there He arose and went to the region of Tyre and Sidon. And He entered a house and wanted [G2309 - theló ] no one to know it, but He could not be hidden.
-- https://biblehub.com/text/mark/7-24.htm
-- G2309 - https://biblehub.com/greek/2309.htm
-- https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/mar/7/24/ss1/t_concif_964024
--G2309 -
"HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 2309 thélō (a primitive verb, NAS dictionary) – to desire (wish, will), wanting what is best (optimal) because someone is ready and willing to act.
2309 /thélō ("to desire, wish") is commonly used of the Lord extending His "best-offer" to the believer – wanting (desiring) to birth His persuasion (faith) in them which also empowers, manifests His presence etc. See 2307 (thelēma).
[Note the close connection between faith (4102 /pístis, "God's inbirthed persuasion") and this root (thel-, 2307 /thélēma); cf. 2 Cor 8:5-7 and Heb 10:36-39).]"
https://biblehub.com/greek/2309.htm
To an extent it does seem flawed; as "free will" appears on it's face to mean "freedom to [exercise] the will" or "a will which is free" rather than "freedom to [execute] the will" or however else you might say it. But I suppose there is plenty of opportunity on this forum, that whenever there is a semantic disagreement, for people to explain their meaning.
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The Bible presents several examples of free will, which is the ability to make choices and have responsibility for those choices. Here are a few examples from Scripture:
Creation of humans in God's image: God created humans in his image, which includes the ability to make choices (Genesis 1:26).
Choice between life and death: God offers life and blessings to those who choose to obey him, and death and curses to those who disobey (Deuteronomy 30:19-20).
Choice to serve God or other gods: Joshua challenges the Israelites to choose to serve the Lord or other gods (Joshua 24:14-15).
Choice to obey or disobey: Deuteronomy 28:1-2 and 15 describe the consequences of obedience and disobedience to God's commands.
Choice to love or not love God: 1 Corinthians 10:23 implies that while we have the right to do anything, not everything is beneficial for us or for those around us.
These examples and others in the Bible demonstrate that humans have the ability to make choices and that their choices have consequences. The Bible also emphasizes that humans are responsible for their choices and that they will be held accountable for them (Romans 3:23, Ephesians 4:24)
J.
Creation of humans in God's image: God created humans in his image, which includes the ability to make choices (Genesis 1:26).
Choice between life and death: God offers life and blessings to those who choose to obey him, and death and curses to those who disobey (Deuteronomy 30:19-20).
Choice to serve God or other gods: Joshua challenges the Israelites to choose to serve the Lord or other gods (Joshua 24:14-15).
Choice to obey or disobey: Deuteronomy 28:1-2 and 15 describe the consequences of obedience and disobedience to God's commands.
Choice to love or not love God: 1 Corinthians 10:23 implies that while we have the right to do anything, not everything is beneficial for us or for those around us.
These examples and others in the Bible demonstrate that humans have the ability to make choices and that their choices have consequences. The Bible also emphasizes that humans are responsible for their choices and that they will be held accountable for them (Romans 3:23, Ephesians 4:24)
J.
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Context is not a theological bias or an assumption. The context in any letter is the key to unlocking the true and intended meaning, of the author of that letter.
Here is a perfect example of how the context dictates how a verse is understood.
Romans 2:24
For “the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you,” just as it is written.
Is Paul addressing the Jews in Rome or is Paul directly addressing the Gentiles in Rome?
If Paul is addressing the Jews in Rome, then the letter to the Romans. Can be easily and correctly understood.
In fact, the letter to the Romans is actually describing why Israel failed.
You may not understand what I am saying here. Though the context is critical in Romans.
Your interpretation may be incorrect.
Here is a perfect example of how the context dictates how a verse is understood.
Romans 2:24
For “the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you,” just as it is written.
Is Paul addressing the Jews in Rome or is Paul directly addressing the Gentiles in Rome?
If Paul is addressing the Jews in Rome, then the letter to the Romans. Can be easily and correctly understood.
In fact, the letter to the Romans is actually describing why Israel failed.
You may not understand what I am saying here. Though the context is critical in Romans.
Your interpretation may be incorrect.
Hello stilllearning.
You hit paydirt in this verse from your post.
That one word, 'love', is the overriding nature of God.
One name, Jesus Christ. and that one word, love.
Everything in the scripture is always pointing to Jesus Christ and to unconditional love.
Whether God's determinism is absolute or has various levels at which His sovereignty is manifested.
We do not know.
At what level does human free will interact with God's sovereignty, that we don't know either.
These kind of debates are deep and complex.
Ultimately, "faith and love", is the critical revelation.
You hit paydirt in this verse from your post.
That one word, 'love', is the overriding nature of God.
One name, Jesus Christ. and that one word, love.
Everything in the scripture is always pointing to Jesus Christ and to unconditional love.
Whether God's determinism is absolute or has various levels at which His sovereignty is manifested.
We do not know.
At what level does human free will interact with God's sovereignty, that we don't know either.
These kind of debates are deep and complex.
Ultimately, "faith and love", is the critical revelation.
God is perfect.
God determines perfectly all events that occur in this universe.
God also has a perfect free will, God can alter all events and include human free will. If God chooses to do so.
Within divine determinism is it possible that God allows some level of human free will?
There are two powerful examples of determinism in the scripture.
1) The death and resurrection of Jesus Christ
2) We are predestined to be transformed into the image of Jesus
Then there are two strong examples of free will
1) Joshua 24:15
But if it is disagreeable in your sight to serve the Lord, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve.
2) Philippians 1:22
But if I am to live on in the flesh, this will mean fruitful labor for me; and I do not know which to choose.
God determines perfectly all events that occur in this universe.
God also has a perfect free will, God can alter all events and include human free will. If God chooses to do so.
Within divine determinism is it possible that God allows some level of human free will?
There are two powerful examples of determinism in the scripture.
1) The death and resurrection of Jesus Christ
2) We are predestined to be transformed into the image of Jesus
Then there are two strong examples of free will
1) Joshua 24:15
But if it is disagreeable in your sight to serve the Lord, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve.
2) Philippians 1:22
But if I am to live on in the flesh, this will mean fruitful labor for me; and I do not know which to choose.
There is no doubt that God's sovereignty and therefore His will, cannot be correctly defined.
God's ways are far beyond our understanding.
Did God predetermine that Adam would take a bite of that fruit?
If not, then how do we determine the level of human free will involved.
What I do know is that there will be serious divisions in Christianity over this subject.
Generating any division within Christianity is a deed of the flesh.
God's ways are far beyond our understanding.
Did God predetermine that Adam would take a bite of that fruit?
If not, then how do we determine the level of human free will involved.
What I do know is that there will be serious divisions in Christianity over this subject.
Generating any division within Christianity is a deed of the flesh.
I am not saying that context is irrelevant. But we must begin with what a particular text is saying, and not by asserting what we believe that text is teaching because we are looking at the text through a particular systematic lens.
What "For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you" says is "Because (Paul is giving a reason for something stated before this verse) the name of God is being denigrated among the Gentiles because of you (some group Paul is addressing.)"
Then we have some questions to answer from the context.
1. For what is this text a reason?
2. Who is the "you" referring to.
Now we go to the immediate context.
17 But if you call yourself a Jew and rely on the law and boast in God 18 and know his will and approve what is excellent, because you are instructed from the law; 19 and if you are sure that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness, 20 an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of children, having in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth— 21 you then who teach others, do you not teach yourself? While you preach against stealing, do you steal? 22 You who say that one must not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who boast in the law dishonor God by breaking the law. 24 For, as it is written, “The name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.”
So, the answers to the questions raised by the first text are
1. The reason God is blasphemed among the Gentiles is that those boasting in the Mosaic Law are dishonouring God by breaking the Mosaic Law.
2. The "you" are those who call themselves Jews and rely on the Mosaic Law and boast in God. Therefore, they are Jews.
This is the correct way to read a text for comprehension.
What does it say?
What questions are raised by the text that the text itself does not answer, for which we need answers?Is there something in the immediate context that gives answers to those questions.
What "For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you" says is "Because (Paul is giving a reason for something stated before this verse) the name of God is being denigrated among the Gentiles because of you (some group Paul is addressing.)"
Then we have some questions to answer from the context.
1. For what is this text a reason?
2. Who is the "you" referring to.
Now we go to the immediate context.
17 But if you call yourself a Jew and rely on the law and boast in God 18 and know his will and approve what is excellent, because you are instructed from the law; 19 and if you are sure that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness, 20 an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of children, having in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth— 21 you then who teach others, do you not teach yourself? While you preach against stealing, do you steal? 22 You who say that one must not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who boast in the law dishonor God by breaking the law. 24 For, as it is written, “The name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.”
So, the answers to the questions raised by the first text are
1. The reason God is blasphemed among the Gentiles is that those boasting in the Mosaic Law are dishonouring God by breaking the Mosaic Law.
2. The "you" are those who call themselves Jews and rely on the Mosaic Law and boast in God. Therefore, they are Jews.
This is the correct way to read a text for comprehension.
What does it say?
What questions are raised by the text that the text itself does not answer, for which we need answers?Is there something in the immediate context that gives answers to those questions.