Predestination is misunderstood...

[Johann]

lol that was a full 12 rounds 😊

Starting at round one am I right in thinking, Paul was trying to be subtle, but at the same time, lecture the Ephesus saints, for not realising God saved them, Because they believed first, 😊

Would I also be correct in assuming Paul had heard the esphesu saints Where spreading heresy, and so he prayed To God the father, who the gave him the words to write to the saints of Ephesus.

Then also would this mean, Paul was a prophet, and that heresy is something that God forgives. 😊

RECIPIENTS

A. Many manuscripts (Chester Beatty Papyri, P46; Sinaiticus, א; Vaticanus, B; Origen's Greek text, and Tertullain's Greek text) omit "in Ephesus" in Eph. 1:1. The RSV and Williams translations omit the phrase.



B. The Greek grammar of Eph. 1:1 can accommodate a place name. Possibly, as a circular letter, the place name of the church was left blank so it could be supplied when read aloud to the churches. This might explain the phrase in Col. 4:15-16, "letter from the Laodiceans," which was possibly the Book of Ephesians (Marcion called Ephesians by the title "letter to the Laodiceans").



C. Ephesians was written primarily to Gentiles, Eph. 2:1; 4:17, whom Paul had not personally met, Eph. 1:15; 3:2. The churches in the Lycus River Valley (Laodicea, Hierapolis, and Colossae) were started, not by Paul, but by Epaphras (Col. 1:7; 4:12; Philemon 23).



PURPOSE

A. The theme of the book is found in Eph. 1:10 and 4:1-10, which emphasizes the unity of all things in Christ. Christ restores the image of God in humanity and in the world (kosmos).



B. The doctrinal section of chapters 1-3 can be outlined as:

The Trinity's Gracious Character and Provisions for Sinful Mankind

1. God's Trinitarian nature (Eph. 1:3-14)

2. God's gracious character (Eph. 2:1-10)

3. God's eternal plan of redemption (Eph. 2:11-3:13)



C. Ephesians is one of Paul's four prison letters. The outlines of Ephesians and Colossians are very similar. Colossians was written to combat the heresy of incipient Gnosticism in the Lycus River Valley of Asia Minor. Ephesians was written as a circular letter to the same area to prepare the other churches for the coming heresy. Colossians is a terse, hard-hitting letter, while Ephesians is an extended logical presentation of the same truths using very long sentences: (Eph. 1:3-14, 15-23; 2:1-9; 3:1-7, etc.).

J.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

RECIPIENTS

A. Many manuscripts (Chester Beatty Papyri, P46; Sinaiticus, א; Vaticanus, B; Origen's Greek text, and Tertullain's Greek text) omit "in Ephesus" in Eph. 1:1. The RSV and Williams translations omit the phrase.



B. The Greek grammar of Eph. 1:1 can accommodate a place name. Possibly, as a circular letter, the place name of the church was left blank so it could be supplied when read aloud to the churches. This might explain the phrase in Col. 4:15-16, "letter from the Laodiceans," which was possibly the Book of Ephesians (Marcion called Ephesians by the title "letter to the Laodiceans").



C. Ephesians was written primarily to Gentiles, Eph. 2:1; 4:17, whom Paul had not personally met, Eph. 1:15; 3:2. The churches in the Lycus River Valley (Laodicea, Hierapolis, and Colossae) were started, not by Paul, but by Epaphras (Col. 1:7; 4:12; Philemon 23).



PURPOSE

A. The theme of the book is found in Eph. 1:10 and 4:1-10, which emphasizes the unity of all things in Christ. Christ restores the image of God in humanity and in the world (kosmos).



B. The doctrinal section of chapters 1-3 can be outlined as:

The Trinity's Gracious Character and Provisions for Sinful Mankind

1. God's Trinitarian nature (Eph. 1:3-14)

2. God's gracious character (Eph. 2:1-10)

3. God's eternal plan of redemption (Eph. 2:11-3:13)



C. Ephesians is one of Paul's four prison letters. The outlines of Ephesians and Colossians are very similar. Colossians was written to combat the heresy of incipient Gnosticism in the Lycus River Valley of Asia Minor. Ephesians was written as a circular letter to the same area to prepare the other churches for the coming heresy. Colossians is a terse, hard-hitting letter, while Ephesians is an extended logical presentation of the same truths using very long sentences: (Eph. 1:3-14, 15-23; 2:1-9; 3:1-7, etc.).

J.

I'll quote you later, I do like your explanations, they sound logical 😋

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

RECIPIENTS

A. Many manuscripts (Chester Beatty Papyri, P46; Sinaiticus, א; Vaticanus, B; Origen's Greek text, and Tertullain's Greek text) omit "in Ephesus" in Eph. 1:1. The RSV and Williams translations omit the phrase.



B. The Greek grammar of Eph. 1:1 can accommodate a place name. Possibly, as a circular letter, the place name of the church was left blank so it could be supplied when read aloud to the churches. This might explain the phrase in Col. 4:15-16, "letter from the Laodiceans," which was possibly the Book of Ephesians (Marcion called Ephesians by the title "letter to the Laodiceans").



C. Ephesians was written primarily to Gentiles, Eph. 2:1; 4:17, whom Paul had not personally met, Eph. 1:15; 3:2. The churches in the Lycus River Valley (Laodicea, Hierapolis, and Colossae) were started, not by Paul, but by Epaphras (Col. 1:7; 4:12; Philemon 23).



PURPOSE

A. The theme of the book is found in Eph. 1:10 and 4:1-10, which emphasizes the unity of all things in Christ. Christ restores the image of God in humanity and in the world (kosmos).



B. The doctrinal section of chapters 1-3 can be outlined as:

The Trinity's Gracious Character and Provisions for Sinful Mankind

1. God's Trinitarian nature (Eph. 1:3-14)

2. God's gracious character (Eph. 2:1-10)

3. God's eternal plan of redemption (Eph. 2:11-3:13)



C. Ephesians is one of Paul's four prison letters. The outlines of Ephesians and Colossians are very similar. Colossians was written to combat the heresy of incipient Gnosticism in the Lycus River Valley of Asia Minor. Ephesians was written as a circular letter to the same area to prepare the other churches for the coming heresy. Colossians is a terse, hard-hitting letter, while Ephesians is an extended logical presentation of the same truths using very long sentences: (Eph. 1:3-14, 15-23; 2:1-9; 3:1-7, etc.).

J.

This is a bit of an upper cut 😋, but if we see that that Paul was only using his own logic when expanding upon messages he had received of God, then are we not in danger of seeing the word as absolute authority.

In revelation John the apostle was told to write these words down, which would include all the book of revelation.

Is there any difference between a messenger and a prophet.

Because I would of thought a messenger is a prophet.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

My post went right over you-understandably.
J.

Yes, its very evident that you think your intelligence is much greater than mine. Deny yourself, take up your cross and follow me.

Pride comes before the fall.

 

[Johann]

Yes, its very evident that you think your intelligence is much greater than mine. Deny yourself, take up your cross and follow me.

Pride comes before the fall.

Nothing to do with intelligence-since we have a few "wordy" ones" but rightly cutting straight the word of God-working with the talents and gifts the Holy Spirit has given us.
Shalom
J.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Slip the jab slip the jab 😂

 

[Johann]

This is a bit of an upper cut 😋, but if we see that that Paul was only using his own logic when expanding upon messages he had received of God, then are we not in danger of seeing the word as absolute authority.

In revelation John the apostle was told to write these words down, which would include all the book of revelation.

Is there any difference between a messenger and a prophet.

Because I would of thought a messenger is a prophet.

THE DIFFERENT HEBREW TERMS FOR PROPHET

Biblical Terms

1. ro'eh = "seer" (BDB 906, KB 1157), 1 Sam. 9:9. This reference shows the transition to the term nabi, which means "prophet" and comes from the root, "to call." Ro'eh is from the general Hebrew term "to see." This person understood God's ways and plans and was consulted to ascertain God's will in a matter.

2. hozeh = "seer" (BDB 302, KB 301), 2 Sam. 24:11; Amos 7:12. It is basically a synonym of ro'eh. It is from a rarer Hebrew term "to see in a vision." The PARTICIPLE form is used most often to refer to prophets.

3. nabi' = "prophet" (BDB 611, KB 661), cognate of Akkadian VERB nabu = "to call" and Arabic naba'a = "to announce." This is the most common OT term to designate a prophet. It is used over 300 times. The exact etymology is uncertain, but "to call" at present seems the best option. Possibly the best understanding comes form YHWH's description of Moses' relationship to Pharaoh through Aaron (cf. Exod. 4:10-16; 7:1; Deut. 5:5). A prophet is someone who speaks for God to His people (cf. Amos 3:8; Jer. 1:7,17; Ezek. 3:4).

4. All three terms are used of the prophet's office in 1 Chr. 29:29; Samuel ‒ Ro'eh; Nathan ‒ Nabi'; and Gad ‒ Hozeh.

5. The phrase 'ish ha ‒ 'elohim, "man of God," is also a broader designation for a speaker for God. It is used some 76 times in the OT in the sense of "prophet."

6. The NT word "prophet" is Greek in origin. It comes from

a. pro, which means "before" or "for"

b. phemi, which means "to speak."


ἀπόστολος
apostolos
ap-os'-tol-os
From G649; a delegate; specifically an ambassador of the Gospel; officially a commissioner of Christ (“apostle”), (with miraculous powers): - apostle, messenger, he that is sent.

LXX related word(s)
H7971 shalach

Thayer Definition:
1) a delegate, messenger, one sent forth with orders
1a) specifically applied to the twelve apostles of Christ
1b) in a broader sense applied to other eminent Christian teachers
1b1) of Barnabas
1b2) of Timothy and Silvanus
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G649

Interestingly-


apostelló G649 [to send out]
pempó G3992 [to send]
exapostelló G1821 [to send out]
apostolos G652 [apostle]
pseudapostolos G5570 [false apostle]
apostolé G651 [apostleship]

apostello (pempo )
A. apostello and pempo in Secular Greek.
1. apostello is a strengthening compound of stello and is common in Greek for "to send forth," differing from pempo, which stresses the fact of sending, by its relating of sender and sent and its consequent implication of a commission, especially in Hellenistic Greek.
2. It thus carries the further thought of authorization, e.g., in the case of official envoys, but also divinely sent teachers. It is used in the latter sense by the Cynics and Stoics, by Irenaeus (with reference to Menander), and by Philo.
B. apostello and pempo in the LXX (OT) with Judaism.
1. apostello occurs over 700 times in the LXX, mostly for the root slh; pempo only some 26 times, six with no Hebrew original. apostello /slh are mostly used where there is commissioning with a message or task. Alone they denote the sending of a special messenger with emphasis on the sender (cf. Isa_6:8), so that the messenger is a kind of plenipotentiary. The message and the one sent are of interest only as they embody the sender, no matter who the sender or the sent may be. Even those who are sent realize that the stress is on the sender (cf. Gen_24:1 ff.).
2. The LXX pursues this thought consistently, even using apostello for slh contrary to the literal sense in order to bring out the authoritative element in the action and the position of the one who acts. The features of the verb in secular Greek are thus taken up and merged with what the OT equivalent contributes. Even in relation to the prophets the use is not just religious; the situation itself gives the religious flavor. Nor does the term denotes self-awareness, as in the case of the Cynic, for there is no place for this alongside unconditional subjection to the will of the sender.
3. Rabbinic Judaism keeps within the sphere delineated by slh. Josephus has apostello some 75 times, more or less synonymously with pempo in some cases, elsewhere to denote official missions or sending by God. Philo has an absolute use similar to that of Cynics and Stoics and not affected by slh.
C. apostello and pempo in the NT.
1. apostello occurs some 135 times in the NT, mostly in the Gospels and Acts. pempo occurs some 80 times, 33 in John, five in Rev_22:1-21 in Luke/Acts, only four in Matthew, and one in Mark. Apart from the special use of pempo in John, the Lucan material predominates; it prefers apostello, yet like Josephus an use pempo as a synonym and has less sense of the specific nature of apostello. The religious character of the NT material explains the general predominance of apostello, and in the NT as a whole pempo seems to be used when the stress is on the sending, apostello when it is on the commission, and especially (in the Synoptists) when it is God who sends.

Much as I would like to call Paul a prophet-he wasn't-not in the Kainos Dispensation.
left hook?
J

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

THE DIFFERENT HEBREW TERMS FOR PROPHET

Biblical Terms

1. ro'eh = "seer" (BDB 906, KB 1157), 1 Sam. 9:9. This reference shows the transition to the term nabi, which means "prophet" and comes from the root, "to call." Ro'eh is from the general Hebrew term "to see." This person understood God's ways and plans and was consulted to ascertain God's will in a matter.

2. hozeh = "seer" (BDB 302, KB 301), 2 Sam. 24:11; Amos 7:12. It is basically a synonym of ro'eh. It is from a rarer Hebrew term "to see in a vision." The PARTICIPLE form is used most often to refer to prophets.

3. nabi' = "prophet" (BDB 611, KB 661), cognate of Akkadian VERB nabu = "to call" and Arabic naba'a = "to announce." This is the most common OT term to designate a prophet. It is used over 300 times. The exact etymology is uncertain, but "to call" at present seems the best option. Possibly the best understanding comes form YHWH's description of Moses' relationship to Pharaoh through Aaron (cf. Exod. 4:10-16; 7:1; Deut. 5:5). A prophet is someone who speaks for God to His people (cf. Amos 3:8; Jer. 1:7,17; Ezek. 3:4).

4. All three terms are used of the prophet's office in 1 Chr. 29:29; Samuel ‒ Ro'eh; Nathan ‒ Nabi'; and Gad ‒ Hozeh.

5. The phrase 'ish ha ‒ 'elohim, "man of God," is also a broader designation for a speaker for God. It is used some 76 times in the OT in the sense of "prophet."

6. The NT word "prophet" is Greek in origin. It comes from

a. pro, which means "before" or "for"

b. phemi, which means "to speak."


ἀπόστολος
apostolos
ap-os'-tol-os
From G649; a delegate; specifically an ambassador of the Gospel; officially a commissioner of Christ (“apostle”), (with miraculous powers): - apostle, messenger, he that is sent.

LXX related word(s)
H7971 shalach

Thayer Definition:
1) a delegate, messenger, one sent forth with orders
1a) specifically applied to the twelve apostles of Christ
1b) in a broader sense applied to other eminent Christian teachers
1b1) of Barnabas
1b2) of Timothy and Silvanus
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G649

Interestingly-


apostelló G649 [to send out]
pempó G3992 [to send]
exapostelló G1821 [to send out]
apostolos G652 [apostle]
pseudapostolos G5570 [false apostle]
apostolé G651 [apostleship]

apostello (pempo )
A. apostello and pempo in Secular Greek.
1. apostello is a strengthening compound of stello and is common in Greek for "to send forth," differing from pempo, which stresses the fact of sending, by its relating of sender and sent and its consequent implication of a commission, especially in Hellenistic Greek.
2. It thus carries the further thought of authorization, e.g., in the case of official envoys, but also divinely sent teachers. It is used in the latter sense by the Cynics and Stoics, by Irenaeus (with reference to Menander), and by Philo.
B. apostello and pempo in the LXX (OT) with Judaism.
1. apostello occurs over 700 times in the LXX, mostly for the root slh; pempo only some 26 times, six with no Hebrew original. apostello /slh are mostly used where there is commissioning with a message or task. Alone they denote the sending of a special messenger with emphasis on the sender (cf. Isa_6:8), so that the messenger is a kind of plenipotentiary. The message and the one sent are of interest only as they embody the sender, no matter who the sender or the sent may be. Even those who are sent realize that the stress is on the sender (cf. Gen_24:1 ff.).
2. The LXX pursues this thought consistently, even using apostello for slh contrary to the literal sense in order to bring out the authoritative element in the action and the position of the one who acts. The features of the verb in secular Greek are thus taken up and merged with what the OT equivalent contributes. Even in relation to the prophets the use is not just religious; the situation itself gives the religious flavor. Nor does the term denotes self-awareness, as in the case of the Cynic, for there is no place for this alongside unconditional subjection to the will of the sender.
3. Rabbinic Judaism keeps within the sphere delineated by slh. Josephus has apostello some 75 times, more or less synonymously with pempo in some cases, elsewhere to denote official missions or sending by God. Philo has an absolute use similar to that of Cynics and Stoics and not affected by slh.
C. apostello and pempo in the NT.
1. apostello occurs some 135 times in the NT, mostly in the Gospels and Acts. pempo occurs some 80 times, 33 in John, five in Rev_22:1-21 in Luke/Acts, only four in Matthew, and one in Mark. Apart from the special use of pempo in John, the Lucan material predominates; it prefers apostello, yet like Josephus an use pempo as a synonym and has less sense of the specific nature of apostello. The religious character of the NT material explains the general predominance of apostello, and in the NT as a whole pempo seems to be used when the stress is on the sending, apostello when it is on the commission, and especially (in the Synoptists) when it is God who sends.

Much as I would like to call Paul a prophet-he wasn't-not in the Kainos Dispensation.
left hook?
J

lol I think you've sent me punch drunk with this one 😋

 

[Johann]

THE DIFFERENT HEBREW TERMS FOR PROPHET

Biblical Terms

1. ro'eh = "seer" (BDB 906, KB 1157), 1 Sam. 9:9. This reference shows the transition to the term nabi, which means "prophet" and comes from the root, "to call." Ro'eh is from the general Hebrew term "to see." This person understood God's ways and plans and was consulted to ascertain God's will in a matter.

2. hozeh = "seer" (BDB 302, KB 301), 2 Sam. 24:11; Amos 7:12. It is basically a synonym of ro'eh. It is from a rarer Hebrew term "to see in a vision." The PARTICIPLE form is used most often to refer to prophets.

3. nabi' = "prophet" (BDB 611, KB 661), cognate of Akkadian VERB nabu = "to call" and Arabic naba'a = "to announce." This is the most common OT term to designate a prophet. It is used over 300 times. The exact etymology is uncertain, but "to call" at present seems the best option. Possibly the best understanding comes form YHWH's description of Moses' relationship to Pharaoh through Aaron (cf. Exod. 4:10-16; 7:1; Deut. 5:5). A prophet is someone who speaks for God to His people (cf. Amos 3:8; Jer. 1:7,17; Ezek. 3:4).

4. All three terms are used of the prophet's office in 1 Chr. 29:29; Samuel ‒ Ro'eh; Nathan ‒ Nabi'; and Gad ‒ Hozeh.

5. The phrase 'ish ha ‒ 'elohim, "man of God," is also a broader designation for a speaker for God. It is used some 76 times in the OT in the sense of "prophet."

6. The NT word "prophet" is Greek in origin. It comes from

a. pro, which means "before" or "for"

b. phemi, which means "to speak."


ἀπόστολος
apostolos
ap-os'-tol-os
From G649; a delegate; specifically an ambassador of the Gospel; officially a commissioner of Christ (“apostle”), (with miraculous powers): - apostle, messenger, he that is sent.

LXX related word(s)
H7971 shalach

Thayer Definition:
1) a delegate, messenger, one sent forth with orders
1a) specifically applied to the twelve apostles of Christ
1b) in a broader sense applied to other eminent Christian teachers
1b1) of Barnabas
1b2) of Timothy and Silvanus
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G649

Interestingly-


apostelló G649 [to send out]
pempó G3992 [to send]
exapostelló G1821 [to send out]
apostolos G652 [apostle]
pseudapostolos G5570 [false apostle]
apostolé G651 [apostleship]

apostello (pempo )
A. apostello and pempo in Secular Greek.
1. apostello is a strengthening compound of stello and is common in Greek for "to send forth," differing from pempo, which stresses the fact of sending, by its relating of sender and sent and its consequent implication of a commission, especially in Hellenistic Greek.
2. It thus carries the further thought of authorization, e.g., in the case of official envoys, but also divinely sent teachers. It is used in the latter sense by the Cynics and Stoics, by Irenaeus (with reference to Menander), and by Philo.
B. apostello and pempo in the LXX (OT) with Judaism.
1. apostello occurs over 700 times in the LXX, mostly for the root slh; pempo only some 26 times, six with no Hebrew original. apostello /slh are mostly used where there is commissioning with a message or task. Alone they denote the sending of a special messenger with emphasis on the sender (cf. Isa_6:8), so that the messenger is a kind of plenipotentiary. The message and the one sent are of interest only as they embody the sender, no matter who the sender or the sent may be. Even those who are sent realize that the stress is on the sender (cf. Gen_24:1 ff.).
2. The LXX pursues this thought consistently, even using apostello for slh contrary to the literal sense in order to bring out the authoritative element in the action and the position of the one who acts. The features of the verb in secular Greek are thus taken up and merged with what the OT equivalent contributes. Even in relation to the prophets the use is not just religious; the situation itself gives the religious flavor. Nor does the term denotes self-awareness, as in the case of the Cynic, for there is no place for this alongside unconditional subjection to the will of the sender.
3. Rabbinic Judaism keeps within the sphere delineated by slh. Josephus has apostello some 75 times, more or less synonymously with pempo in some cases, elsewhere to denote official missions or sending by God. Philo has an absolute use similar to that of Cynics and Stoics and not affected by slh.
C. apostello and pempo in the NT.
1. apostello occurs some 135 times in the NT, mostly in the Gospels and Acts. pempo occurs some 80 times, 33 in John, five in Rev_22:1-21 in Luke/Acts, only four in Matthew, and one in Mark. Apart from the special use of pempo in John, the Lucan material predominates; it prefers apostello, yet like Josephus an use pempo as a synonym and has less sense of the specific nature of apostello. The religious character of the NT material explains the general predominance of apostello, and in the NT as a whole pempo seems to be used when the stress is on the sending, apostello when it is on the commission, and especially (in the Synoptists) when it is God who sends.

Much as I would like to call Paul a prophet-he wasn't-not in the Kainos Dispensation.
left hook?
J

ἄγγελος
aggelos
ang'-el-os
From ἀγγέλλω aggellö (probably derived from G71; compare G34; to bring tidings); a messenger; especially an “angel”; by implication a pastor: - angel, messenger.

LXX related word(s)
H46 abir
H410 el
H426 elah
H582 enosh
H1121 ben
H2719 cherev
H3027 yad
H4397 malakh
H4397 malakh
H4400 malakhut
H5650 eved
H5678 evrah
H5892 ir
H6735 tsir
H8269 sar

Thayer Definition:
1) a messenger, envoy, one who is sent, an angel, a messenger from God
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from aggello [probably derived from G71, compare G34] (to bring tidings)

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

This one is a bob on the nose 😋🤩

As far as I'm where people are only prophets when there moved by the word of God.

When there not recieving word of God there not a prophet.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

I'm out for the count ding ding 😋

 

[Johann]

lol I think you've sent me punch drunk with this one 😋

Starting to appreciate you brother.
J.

 

[Johann]

I'm out for the count ding ding 😋 View attachment 260818

Lol!!!

 

[Johann]

This one is a bob on the nose 😋🤩

As far as I'm where people are only prophets when there moved by the word of God.

When there not recieving word of God there not a prophet.

Old Testament prophets-New Covenant apostles-sent ones.
J.

 

[PaulThomson]

Cognate with Theos , there are three other words to be noted :
1. Theotes , rendered "Deity", and used of Christ. Occurs only in Col_2:9, and has relation to the Godhead personally ; while
2. Theiotes , rendered "Deity" also, is Deity in the abstract . Occurs only in Rom_1:20.
3. Theios , rendered "Divine", and is used of Christ. Occurs only in 2Pe_1:3; 2Pe_1:4; and, with the Article, in Act_17:29, where it is rendered "Godhead". Gr. = that which [is] Divine.

J.

What is your point?

 

[Johann]

What is your point?

Nothing-nada-zip.


Act_17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

Rom_1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Col_2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

A Drash-Remez or a Sod for most.
Have a blessed day
J.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Nothing-nada-zip.


Act_17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

Rom_1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Col_2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

A Drash-Remez or a Sod for most.
Have a blessed day
J.

I'm General zod around here lol.

Hope you get my hidden meaning 😉

.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Starting to appreciate you brother.
J.

So onto my next question.

We can't at this moment agree Paul was a prophet, buts that's ok. There's always time for that.

Made Alive in Christ
2 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh[a] and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. 4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.



Question

Baring in mind this scripture, would you say Paul was telling the Ephesus saints, it is by Good will you have been saved, and not by an unmerited favour, when it's comes to understanding what the word Grace actually means.

 

[Johann]

I'm General zod around here lol.

Hope you get my hidden meaning 😉

.

Same here-

Peshat (פְּשָׁט): meaning plain or simple. It is used for the most obvious and simple meaning or a text.

Remez (רֶמֶז): meaning hints. It is used for the allegoric (hidden or symbolic) meaning beyond the literal sense.

Derash (דְּרַשׁ): meaning inquire or seek. It is used for the comparative (midrashic) meaning, looking at similar occurrences of a word.

Sod (סוֹד): meaning secret or mystery. It is used for the esoteric and mystical meaning, as often used in the Kabbalah.

Now it is "unveiled"-hopefully.
Shalom
J.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Same here-

Peshat (פְּשָׁט): meaning plain or simple. It is used for the most obvious and simple meaning or a text.

Remez (רֶמֶז): meaning hints. It is used for the allegoric (hidden or symbolic) meaning beyond the literal sense.

Derash (דְּרַשׁ): meaning inquire or seek. It is used for the comparative (midrashic) meaning, looking at similar occurrences of a word.

Sod (סוֹד): meaning secret or mystery. It is used for the esoteric and mystical meaning, as often used in the Kabbalah.

Now it is "unveiled"-hopefully.
Shalom
J.

I know what you meant lol 😋