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E
I will wait until I get home to look at this further. want to see it in the greek.
But really. It does not make sense. gabriel did nto say in the middle of the 70th week. Or at the end of the 70th week. He said at the end of the 69th week. And we know from dating that from the time the order was given to restor jerusalem until messiah the prince (using the hebrew callendar) was exactly 69 years. to the date that Jesus entered jeruslaem. He was killed one week later. which would have been 69 years and 1 week literally.
Not to mention. what did Jesus say when he entered?
Matthew 23:37-39
[ Jesus Laments over Jerusalem ] “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! 38 See! Your house is left to you desolate; 39 for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the
Jesus already announced the time was cut off.
Israles house ( what she rightfully owns) is left desolate, It was destroyed in 70 AD.
they would not see it again until they repent.
Fits right in with the timeline.
But really. It does not make sense. gabriel did nto say in the middle of the 70th week. Or at the end of the 70th week. He said at the end of the 69th week. And we know from dating that from the time the order was given to restor jerusalem until messiah the prince (using the hebrew callendar) was exactly 69 years. to the date that Jesus entered jeruslaem. He was killed one week later. which would have been 69 years and 1 week literally.
Not to mention. what did Jesus say when he entered?
Matthew 23:37-39
[ Jesus Laments over Jerusalem ] “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! 38 See! Your house is left to you desolate; 39 for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the
Jesus already announced the time was cut off.
Israles house ( what she rightfully owns) is left desolate, It was destroyed in 70 AD.
they would not see it again until they repent.
Fits right in with the timeline.
E
I did check my HEBREW.
It means to be behind, to follow, after. It means something that immediately follows something else. It would not be used to denote something that does not happen for 3 1/2 year, or 7 years later.
Not to mention. the destruction does not happen for 30 some years after. yet it is supposed to fall within the 7 years? You already have a time issue.
the messiah gets cut off after 69 weeks. (which literally happened to the day) then things happen after the 69th week. Which do not happen in a 7 year time frame.
so what we interpret the first 69 weeks literally. and the last 7 we symbolically interret?
It means to be behind, to follow, after. It means something that immediately follows something else. It would not be used to denote something that does not happen for 3 1/2 year, or 7 years later.
Not to mention. the destruction does not happen for 30 some years after. yet it is supposed to fall within the 7 years? You already have a time issue.
the messiah gets cut off after 69 weeks. (which literally happened to the day) then things happen after the 69th week. Which do not happen in a 7 year time frame.
so what we interpret the first 69 weeks literally. and the last 7 we symbolically interret?
Stuff that EG keeps ignoring:
(Matthew 11:13) For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
Did the prophets prophesie 2000 years AFTER John or UNTIL John, like Jesus said?
Listen to your KING:
(Luke 24:44) And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
(Luke 24:45) Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
(Luke 24:46) And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
(Luke 24:47) And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
(Luke 24:48) And ye are witnesses of these things.
(Luke 24:49) And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.
5th request for a response....still no answer....tick tock
(Matthew 21:5) Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass.
(Luke 19:38) Saying, Blessed be the King that cometh in the name of the Lord: peace in heaven, and glory in the highest.
Just tell me is Christ King or not?
(Matthew 11:13) For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
Did the prophets prophesie 2000 years AFTER John or UNTIL John, like Jesus said?
Listen to your KING:
(Luke 24:44) And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
(Luke 24:45) Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
(Luke 24:46) And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
(Luke 24:47) And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
(Luke 24:48) And ye are witnesses of these things.
(Luke 24:49) And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.
5th request for a response....still no answer....tick tock
(Matthew 21:5) Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass.
(Luke 19:38) Saying, Blessed be the King that cometh in the name of the Lord: peace in heaven, and glory in the highest.
Just tell me is Christ King or not?
A
after 69 weeks means that. the best you could do is say that He was cut off on the first day of the 70th week.
Which is silly. And for something to be consummated after it was completed isnt weird unless the second coming is weird. Why do just pretribbers get to pick the literal/symbolic rules? also 9:27 speaks that the comsummation time would be determined, doesnt sound with that you would expect it within the week.
Which is silly. And for something to be consummated after it was completed isnt weird unless the second coming is weird. Why do just pretribbers get to pick the literal/symbolic rules? also 9:27 speaks that the comsummation time would be determined, doesnt sound with that you would expect it within the week.
J
of course Christ is the King as mentioned in Isaiah 33:22, However he was to first come and suffer before returning to establish an everlasting kingdom here on earth Dan 7: 27 "And the kingdom and dominion and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most high, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve an obey him."
This is what Dan means in chapter 9:27 "And he shall confirm the convenant with many for one week; and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and oblation to cease" This week is literal and also a 7 yr period that Christ would spend teaching before the first ressurrection. We see in Luke 3:21-23 That Christ was baptised and began teaching at age 30 according to the law, he then taught for 3 and 1/2 yrs before as it says in Dan 9:26-27 he was cut off in the midst of the week causing sacrifices to cease. Matt 27:51 Tells us that the veil of the temple (where animal sacrifices were performed) was ripped in two upon Christ death. Clearly showing and en d to the sacrificial Law, as Paul confirms in Hebrews 10:5 Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me"
Now we can read in several places where the great tribulation will be three and a half yrs and Gods true people will flee (no rapture) to the wilderness as he commanded in Matt 24, they will not meet him untill after the three and a half yrs, and that only in the air before he returns to the Mt of Olives to fight.Specifically the woman described in Rev 12:1-6 "clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of 12 stars" represents the 12 tribes of Israel as you can read in Gen 37:9-10 wher Joseph on of Jacobs 12 sons dreams the same thing representing his father (the sun), mother ( the moon) and 11 stars his eleven bretheren, him being the twelveth. Anyway we see this woman Israel flees into the wilderness for 1,260 days 3 and 1/2 yrs. before Christ destroys the beast this being the Second half of the week Daniel prophesies in 9:27
This is what Dan means in chapter 9:27 "And he shall confirm the convenant with many for one week; and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and oblation to cease" This week is literal and also a 7 yr period that Christ would spend teaching before the first ressurrection. We see in Luke 3:21-23 That Christ was baptised and began teaching at age 30 according to the law, he then taught for 3 and 1/2 yrs before as it says in Dan 9:26-27 he was cut off in the midst of the week causing sacrifices to cease. Matt 27:51 Tells us that the veil of the temple (where animal sacrifices were performed) was ripped in two upon Christ death. Clearly showing and en d to the sacrificial Law, as Paul confirms in Hebrews 10:5 Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me"
Now we can read in several places where the great tribulation will be three and a half yrs and Gods true people will flee (no rapture) to the wilderness as he commanded in Matt 24, they will not meet him untill after the three and a half yrs, and that only in the air before he returns to the Mt of Olives to fight.Specifically the woman described in Rev 12:1-6 "clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of 12 stars" represents the 12 tribes of Israel as you can read in Gen 37:9-10 wher Joseph on of Jacobs 12 sons dreams the same thing representing his father (the sun), mother ( the moon) and 11 stars his eleven bretheren, him being the twelveth. Anyway we see this woman Israel flees into the wilderness for 1,260 days 3 and 1/2 yrs. before Christ destroys the beast this being the Second half of the week Daniel prophesies in 9:27
J
I also said that week was literal because Jesus tells us that he would be in the grave for 3 days and 3 nights and when Mary arrived on the first day of the week while it was yet dark he was already gone, You can get 3 days andd nights out of good friday- Easter Sun. Jesus was buried on Wednesday and Rose on Saturday, before the first day of the week
E
1st. who said I was a pre-triber?
2nd. Time line.
Start of 70 week. "going forth of the order to rebuild jerusalem.
Decrees.
Cyrus 2 Chron 36:22, Ezra 1:3 and Darius Ezra 6: 3-8 All of these dealt with the temple. not the city.
Ezra 4: 1-4 shows rebuilding was stopped because they were trying to rebuild city and it was NOT AUTHORIZED
so in none of these was the condition of daniel met.
Artaxerxes: Nehemiah 2: 1-8
1 And it came to pass in the month of Nisan, in the twentieth year of King Artaxerxes, when wine was before him, that I took the wine and gave it to the king. Now I had never been sad in his presence before. 2 Therefore the king said to me, “Why is your face sad, since you are not sick? This is nothing but sorrow of heart.”
So I became dreadfully afraid, 3 and said to the king, “May the king live forever! Why should my face not be sad, when the city, the place of my fathers’ tombs, lies waste, and its gates are burned with fire?”
4 Then the king said to me, “What do you request?”
So I prayed to the God of heaven. 5 And I said to the king, “If it pleases the king, and if your servant has found favor in your sight, I ask that you send me to Judah, to the city of my fathers’ tombs, that I may rebuild it.”
6 Then the king said to me (the queen also sitting beside him), “How long will your journey be? And when will you return?” So it pleased the king to send me; and I set him a time.
7 Furthermore I said to the king, “If it pleases the king, let letters be given to me for the governors of the region beyond the River,[a] that they must permit me to pass through till I come to Judah, 8 and a letter to Asaph the keeper of the king’s forest, that he must give me timber to make beams for the gates of the citadel which pertains to the temple,[b] for the city wall, and for the house that I will occupy.” And the king granted them to me according to the good hand of my God upon me.
Date of this decree: 1st of nissan 445;
Since the date of the jewsih calender has never changed since egypt. So it is easy to determin this date, which would be 14 march 445
Christ enterance into Jerusalem:
Jesus went to jerusalem on 8 nissan. 6 days before passover, Considering passover was on the 9th. He must have entered Jerusalem on the tenth.
Julian date of nisan 10 is 6 April AD 32.
from 14 march 445 to 6 April AD 32 is exactly 173,880 days, or 7 X 69 prophetic years of 360 days (using hebrew calander)
even if we use roman calendar (julian.
476 X 365 days = 173.740 days. Add 14 arch and 6 april (both inclusive) 24 days Add for leap years 116 days. We get 173,880 days.
So as you can see. The last day of the 69th week messiah entered jerusalem "until messiah the prince" less than a week later he was crucified (cut off)
so tell me where does the last 7 years fit in?? what happens during this 360 X 7 prophetic years (minues time Jesus entered jerusalem till he was "cut off) that made an end to sin?? If Christ fulfilled the prophesy completely by his death. His death should have been on the last week of the final year of the 70th. And his ressurection the last day. It does not add up.. why?
2nd. Time line.
Start of 70 week. "going forth of the order to rebuild jerusalem.
Decrees.
Cyrus 2 Chron 36:22, Ezra 1:3 and Darius Ezra 6: 3-8 All of these dealt with the temple. not the city.
Ezra 4: 1-4 shows rebuilding was stopped because they were trying to rebuild city and it was NOT AUTHORIZED
so in none of these was the condition of daniel met.
Artaxerxes: Nehemiah 2: 1-8
1 And it came to pass in the month of Nisan, in the twentieth year of King Artaxerxes, when wine was before him, that I took the wine and gave it to the king. Now I had never been sad in his presence before. 2 Therefore the king said to me, “Why is your face sad, since you are not sick? This is nothing but sorrow of heart.”
So I became dreadfully afraid, 3 and said to the king, “May the king live forever! Why should my face not be sad, when the city, the place of my fathers’ tombs, lies waste, and its gates are burned with fire?”
4 Then the king said to me, “What do you request?”
So I prayed to the God of heaven. 5 And I said to the king, “If it pleases the king, and if your servant has found favor in your sight, I ask that you send me to Judah, to the city of my fathers’ tombs, that I may rebuild it.”
6 Then the king said to me (the queen also sitting beside him), “How long will your journey be? And when will you return?” So it pleased the king to send me; and I set him a time.
7 Furthermore I said to the king, “If it pleases the king, let letters be given to me for the governors of the region beyond the River,[a] that they must permit me to pass through till I come to Judah, 8 and a letter to Asaph the keeper of the king’s forest, that he must give me timber to make beams for the gates of the citadel which pertains to the temple,[b] for the city wall, and for the house that I will occupy.” And the king granted them to me according to the good hand of my God upon me.
Date of this decree: 1st of nissan 445;
Since the date of the jewsih calender has never changed since egypt. So it is easy to determin this date, which would be 14 march 445
Christ enterance into Jerusalem:
Jesus went to jerusalem on 8 nissan. 6 days before passover, Considering passover was on the 9th. He must have entered Jerusalem on the tenth.
Julian date of nisan 10 is 6 April AD 32.
from 14 march 445 to 6 April AD 32 is exactly 173,880 days, or 7 X 69 prophetic years of 360 days (using hebrew calander)
even if we use roman calendar (julian.
476 X 365 days = 173.740 days. Add 14 arch and 6 april (both inclusive) 24 days Add for leap years 116 days. We get 173,880 days.
So as you can see. The last day of the 69th week messiah entered jerusalem "until messiah the prince" less than a week later he was crucified (cut off)
so tell me where does the last 7 years fit in?? what happens during this 360 X 7 prophetic years (minues time Jesus entered jerusalem till he was "cut off) that made an end to sin?? If Christ fulfilled the prophesy completely by his death. His death should have been on the last week of the final year of the 70th. And his ressurection the last day. It does not add up.. why?
E
You would if it was still active.
but we have a problem.
1. Jesus crucified AD 32. Titus destroys Jerusalem AD 70. we alread have a gap of 38 years.
2. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined. How long are these war desolations which are determined gonna last? No time period given.
3. Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; Who is he? but the prince who is to come, who comes out of the people who destroy the city. Here is your last 7 years. or week.
4. But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined,
When did this abomination take place? It was not titus. Titus did not desolate the sanctuary, he destroyed it.
This happens in the middle of the week. If the end of the 69th is the day Jesus walked in. And the begining of the 70th was the next day. WHo commited this abomination 3 1/2 years later?
This is the problem with amiliniall view of daniels 70 weeks. they have to literally fulfill the first 69. and then spiritually fulfill the last 7, because all things did not, and could not happen in the 7 years after Christ died.
so there is a GAP either belief. On explians it away by taking it symbolically. The other takes it away as being a temporary halt because Israel rejected her messiah. The "end of sin for daniels people" will be 7 years post a peace treaty made by a roman leader, who then changes his mind midway through the 7 year period. And commits the abomination. Which jesus himself said, When you see it run. for then there will be greaqt tribulation such as never been seen before or after.
It all fits if one just if one looks. Perfectly
Is poured out on the desolate.”
but we have a problem.
1. Jesus crucified AD 32. Titus destroys Jerusalem AD 70. we alread have a gap of 38 years.
2. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined. How long are these war desolations which are determined gonna last? No time period given.
3. Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; Who is he? but the prince who is to come, who comes out of the people who destroy the city. Here is your last 7 years. or week.
4. But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined,
When did this abomination take place? It was not titus. Titus did not desolate the sanctuary, he destroyed it.
This happens in the middle of the week. If the end of the 69th is the day Jesus walked in. And the begining of the 70th was the next day. WHo commited this abomination 3 1/2 years later?
This is the problem with amiliniall view of daniels 70 weeks. they have to literally fulfill the first 69. and then spiritually fulfill the last 7, because all things did not, and could not happen in the 7 years after Christ died.
so there is a GAP either belief. On explians it away by taking it symbolically. The other takes it away as being a temporary halt because Israel rejected her messiah. The "end of sin for daniels people" will be 7 years post a peace treaty made by a roman leader, who then changes his mind midway through the 7 year period. And commits the abomination. Which jesus himself said, When you see it run. for then there will be greaqt tribulation such as never been seen before or after.
It all fits if one just if one looks. Perfectly
Is poured out on the desolate.”
J
The beast standing in the holy place marks the begining of the 31/2 yr period it is the 2nd half of the week Daniel spoke of and is mentioned 7 times in the bible here are 3, i will have to search for the other 4.
Rev 13:5 "and power was given unto him to continue 42 months", Dan 12:6-7 " How long shall it be til the end of these wonders?...it shall be for a time (1 yr),+ times (2 yrs), +and an half (half a yr)", Rev 11:2 And the holy city shall they tread under foot 42 months.
Rev 13:5 "and power was given unto him to continue 42 months", Dan 12:6-7 " How long shall it be til the end of these wonders?...it shall be for a time (1 yr),+ times (2 yrs), +and an half (half a yr)", Rev 11:2 And the holy city shall they tread under foot 42 months.
(Matthew 21:5) Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass.
(Luke 19:38) Saying, Blessed be the King that cometh in the name of the Lord: peace in heaven, and glory in the highest.
Just tell me is Christ King or not?
He's MY KING.....I wonder do you know Him?
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzqTFNfeDnE[/video]
(Luke 19:38) Saying, Blessed be the King that cometh in the name of the Lord: peace in heaven, and glory in the highest.
Just tell me is Christ King or not?
He's MY KING.....I wonder do you know Him?
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzqTFNfeDnE[/video]
E
I guess the only way to tell would be to look at chapter 39. how does it end.
21 “I will set My glory among the nations; all the nations shall see My judgment which I have executed, and My hand which I have laid on them. 22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day forward. 23 The Gentiles shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity; because they were unfaithful to Me, therefore I hid My face from them. I gave them into the hand of their enemies, and they all fell by the sword. 24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions I have dealt with them, and hidden My face from them.”’
25 “Therefore thus says the Lord GOD: ‘Now I will bring back the captives of Jacob, and have mercy on the whole house of Israel; and I will be jealous for My holy name— 26 after they have borne their shame, and all their unfaithfulness in which they were unfaithful to Me, when they dwelt safely in their own land and no one made them afraid. 27 When I have brought them back from the peoples and gathered them out of their enemies’ lands, and I am hallowed in them in the sight of many nations, 28 then they shall know that I am the LORD their God, who sent them into captivity among the nations, but also brought them back to their land, and left none of them captive any longer. 29 And I will not hide My face from them anymore; for I shall have poured out My Spirit on the house of Israel,’ says the Lord GOD.”
This has not happened yet. The house of israel is still scattered amoung the nations because of their rebellion and unbelief. which did not happen until ad 70. so this would be some time in the future would it not?
21 “I will set My glory among the nations; all the nations shall see My judgment which I have executed, and My hand which I have laid on them. 22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day forward. 23 The Gentiles shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity; because they were unfaithful to Me, therefore I hid My face from them. I gave them into the hand of their enemies, and they all fell by the sword. 24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions I have dealt with them, and hidden My face from them.”’
25 “Therefore thus says the Lord GOD: ‘Now I will bring back the captives of Jacob, and have mercy on the whole house of Israel; and I will be jealous for My holy name— 26 after they have borne their shame, and all their unfaithfulness in which they were unfaithful to Me, when they dwelt safely in their own land and no one made them afraid. 27 When I have brought them back from the peoples and gathered them out of their enemies’ lands, and I am hallowed in them in the sight of many nations, 28 then they shall know that I am the LORD their God, who sent them into captivity among the nations, but also brought them back to their land, and left none of them captive any longer. 29 And I will not hide My face from them anymore; for I shall have poured out My Spirit on the house of Israel,’ says the Lord GOD.”
This has not happened yet. The house of israel is still scattered amoung the nations because of their rebellion and unbelief. which did not happen until ad 70. so this would be some time in the future would it not?