Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

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ThereRoseaLamb

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Jan 17, 2023
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False Paul was sent specifically to the gentiles for God call out His Elect from among them, which are the lost sheep of Israel, Abrahams Spiritual Seed, once God completes the calling in of all them, All Israel shall be saved as Promised Isa 45:17

17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
Absolutely not! All Israel is not talking about Gentiles in the least. You'd have to be reading it upside down and backwards to come away with that idea. Seriously!!
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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I have never heard the faith OF Christ till it was brought up here. Go figure.
If you use the kjv (for example), you've probably read it many times and not really noticed it (note: I don't agree with how rogerg is explaining it, however):


Rom 3:22
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:


Gal 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.


Gal 3:22
But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.


Phl 3:9
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith


Gal 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.




So yes, it is there. :)
 

MerSee

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Jan 13, 2024
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I believe what the Word says, that Christ died for sinners, that He loves the sinner yet cannot tolerate sin and He wishes none would go to hell. God loves the sinner, He is married to the backslider. You want to see how far God's grace goes, look at the Jews. To this day God is calling them to repent and come home.
Do you believe God loves the unrepentant sinners who are in hell?
 

2ndTimeIsTheCharm

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Feb 17, 2023
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Do you believe God loves the unrepentant sinners who are in hell?


Ezekiel 18:23 Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign Lord. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?

Ezekiel 18:31 Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel? 32 For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent and live!

These are verses about how God not taking pleasure in the death of the wicked. It shows He is grieved when they die. You don't grieve about people you don't love, so this shows that God does love them. This shows that God can love someone who is wicked but they will still face the consequences of their sin if they don't repent and turn to Him, ie. those unrepentant sinners already in hell.


🌮
 

ThereRoseaLamb

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Ezekiel 18:23 Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign Lord. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?

Ezekiel 18:31 Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel? 32 For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent and live!

These are verses about how God not taking pleasure in the death of the wicked. It shows He is grieved when they die. You don't grieve about people you don't love, so this shows that God does love them. This shows that God can love someone who is wicked but they will still face the consequences of their sin if they don't repent and turn to Him, ie. those unrepentant sinners already in hell.


🌮
God calls until the last breath, come home.
 

ThereRoseaLamb

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If you use the kjv (for example), you've probably read it many times and not really noticed it (note: I don't agree with how rogerg is explaining it, however):
:)
Exactly, I think I meant the context of how it's being used. Never heard that before. Thanks for explaining.
 

Everlasting-Grace

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Dec 18, 2021
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A dead person can't call out, period - they're dead. Do you know what it means that they are spiritually dead?
You said that they are and they are.
Sorry, But they are not physically dead, They can call out. just like they can think and make decisions every day.

Again, Are you not able to call out when you are in danger. or do you just sit there waiting on someone to act on your behalf?

and again

John 1, -But as many as have received him to them he gave the right to be his children
John 3 - God so loved the world. that whoever in that world believes will never perish but live forever
John 4 - Ask And I would give you living water flowing to eternal life
John 5 - Whoever sees and believes has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life
John 6 - Work for the food which endures to eternal life, By seeing and believing, Eat the bread from heaven, and you will live forever. never perish, never hunger or thirst. and be raised on the last day.

All of these passages are nonsensical if we can not do what is required to receive these things by choice.
 

Everlasting-Grace

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To truly believe requires the presence of the Holy Spirit as a prerequisite.
Thats why God sent the HS to convict the WORLD of sin, righteousness, judgment.

And why to reject the gospel is to blaspheme the HS.
 

Everlasting-Grace

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You don’t understand the question did I need to be saved at any point ? Did you need to be saved ? Or were you always saved and didn’t need to be saved like Jesus said ?

My point is if we’re already saved beforehand we wouldnt need to be saved in the first place and hearing and believing the gospel could save no one ect ect

you realize believers heard and believed a promise from God they shall be saved , and then they are waiting for that to be fulfilled when he returns right ?

Salvation will be fulfilled this day

“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God:

and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s when the promise we have now will be fulfilled this promise found in the gospel

“In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. ( we shall ever be with the lord )

And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know. Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. ( there is no other )

If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

…. Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:2-4, 6-7, 15-17, 20-21, 23-24‬ ‭


“And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:28‬ ‭KJV‬

were gonna be saved from this which is the lake of fire John saw

“and to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; when he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe in that day.”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭1:7-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬
Even in the OT.

God gave Abraham a promise and offer. Abraham believed God. and because of his faith, he was credited as righteous.

Abraham could have said no.
 

Everlasting-Grace

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Dec 18, 2021
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There is a "works involved" before the fruits of the Spirit are evident in anyone's life. If a person does not crucify the flesh "daily," no one will see the fruits of love, peace, joy, kindness, etc. They will only see your selfish ways. So all this talk about the fruits of the Spirit means nothing if you're not constantly killing the flesh so the fruits can be seen. Paul said he crucified his flesh daily. That's a "work" involved in order so that God who is living inside him can be seen rather than Paul being seen.
It does not have to be work though,

all we have to do is look outside ourself, and love others. This takes acts of faith..

That is the work. to trust our needs are met, so we can in turn meet the needs of others.
 

Everlasting-Grace

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They can balk but their answers also tell us who is showing the fruits of the Spirit to others in order for others to know they are of God. People say I am saved all of the time. But you watch them and you're like I don't want no part of that salvation if I end up like you. That's because they think God is going to exhume Himself beyond their natural human self. Not so, they are only going to see what is most important in a person's life, self. Those who truly are of God kill their flesh all of the time so others only see God.
I disagree.

Babes in Christ do not crucify themselves ALL the time, They need to be nurtured, to grow. to take steps of faith. Even paul, in his latter days said he had not arrived yet, that he continued to run the race.

If we are looking for the perfect believer, there was only one, His name was Jesus.
 

Everlasting-Grace

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Dec 18, 2021
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If you use the kjv (for example), you've probably read it many times and not really noticed it (note: I don't agree with how rogerg is explaining it, however):


Rom 3:22
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:


Gal 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.


Gal 3:22
But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.


Phl 3:9
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith


Gal 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.




So yes, it is there. :)
The of there is seriously misplaced. and makes no sense at all.

Which is one of the major issues I have with the King Jimmy
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
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Do you believe God loves the unrepentant sinners who are in hell?
1. No one is in hell yet\
2. Yes I do. He died for them to. Its like you love your child. But you tell your child they must do something, if they do not do it, they will reap their punishment.

When you punish the child. it does not mean you do not love that child. You gave them a possibility to escape judgment, but they chose to go their own way and reject your authority and love.

Its not your fault they were judged, it is theirs.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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The of there is seriously misplaced. and makes no sense at all.

Which is one of the major issues I have with the King Jimmy
The question is, whether it is a subjective genitive or an objective genitive (grammar stuff :D).



"If the genitive noun expresses the subject of the original verb, it's a subjective genitive. If the genitive noun expresses the object of the original verb, it's an objective genitive."
"If the genitive noun expresses the subject of the original verb, it's a subjective genitive. If the genitive noun expresses the object of the original verb, it's an objective genitive."

So, it's like in Rev1:1's "The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants what things it behooves to take place in quickness. And He signified it through having sent His angel to His servant, John,"


... does this mean, [words] about Him, or [words] from Him... CONTEXT can often determine this (I believe in Rev1:1 the context does let us know which.)



Does that help?

Take a look at the Greek in those verses I listed, like say at BlueLetterBible or BibleHub where they also supply the grammar info of the Greek.

Hope that helps. = )