Predestination is misunderstood...

[Everlasting-Grace]

There was only one day in history when sins were paid for. When you believed you were merely informed about what happened that day, and the results were imputed to you.

We are saved by grace, through faith

We Are justified freely by the same faith

Romans 3: 21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all [f]and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified [g]freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a [h]propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Rom 5: 1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ

Gal 2: 16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

Gal 3: 24 - Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

At the cross.

When I looked to the cross. And I recieved Christ.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

screw you

Sorry, But my free has not said screw you to you.

so I have no idea what your talking about

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Sorry, But my free has not said screw you to you.

so I have no idea what your talking about

your not thinking straight. You have said sod of to many times,.well not me directly, but to scripture.

It's gone on for a while now,

Saying whatever to truth is also saying sod off.

 

[Cameron143]

I understand your dilemma, and seeing as you are my friend and you are kind in disagreement. I will make the effort with you, regardless of our disagreement.


1 Samuel 10:6

New International Version



6 The Spirit of the Lord will come powerfully upon you, and you will prophesy with them; and you will be changed into a different person.

It's quite clearly says Saul will be Change into a different person by the spirit.

a person means there whole being.

It does not say I will change you just for one purpose Cameron.

Since when does the holy spirit change a person for a promise outside of the kingdom.

Come in Cameron your saying the spirit uses people here,

Do you realise what your saying

I do. What fruit do you find in Saul that suggests He was inwardly changed?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

your not thinking straight. You have said sod of to many times,.well not me directly, but to scripture.

It's gone on for a while now,

Saying whatever to truth is also saying sod off.

Aww

So if I disagree with you, I am say SOD off to scripture.

Sorry bud, I do not follow men.. Now if you want to prove I am in error or discuss what I believe, feel free.

But you are quite arrogant if you think you have truth and everyone else is wrong. It is just as possible you are saying sod off to scripture yourself.. Thus you have inserted a strawman

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

We are saved by grace, through faith

We Are justified freely by the same faith

Romans 3: 21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all [f]and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified [g]freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a [h]propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Rom 5: 1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ

Gal 2: 16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

Gal 3: 24 - Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith

Do you know you receive salvation through Gods Good will (Grace) , once your faith has bloomed.

Do you know Grace means Gods good will.

 

[Cameron143]

Im

What does that have to do with free will?

Can I get a credit card and go in debt?? Can I take a loan? Can I steal what I want?

You have free will to do whatever you want.

In the following passage do these people have unlimited free will...James 4:13-15?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Do you know you receive salvation through Gods Good will (Grace) , once your faith has bloomed.

Do you know Grace means Gods good will.

I know I am saved by grace period.

But it is through faith that I recieve this salvation.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

I do. What fruit do you find in Saul that suggests He was inwardly changed?

he was totally distraught when God stopped. Speaking to him

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

I know I am saved by grace period.

But it is through faith that I recieve this salvation.

Do you realise Grace means Gods good will

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Im

In the following passage do these people have unlimited free will...James 4:13-15?

Well of course they do

Just because they may die before they end up doing what they chose to do does not negate free will

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Do you realise Grace means Gods good will

Grace by defenition means unmerited or unearned favor..

And yes, Gods good will, he sent his son to die so grace can be offered to everyone.. Grace is free to the one who recieved, But it had a price. The cross

 

[Cameron143]

Dont you have to repent of any personal sins to Jesus before you can be saved, or settle any outstanding habitual sin before you can be saved.

Do you understand a person can be living in sin when they confess Jesus is lord

Sure. That's when His righteousness is imputed to us. But forgiveness was accomplished on the cross. Salvation is the process wherein God in space and time applies the work of Christ to us.

 

[Cameron143]

he was totally distraught when God stopped. Speaking to him

The natural man can be distraught. It isn't something produced by the Spirit.

 

[Cameron143]

Well of course they do

Just because they may die before they end up doing what they chose to do does not negate free will

It says very clearly they don't. They are limited by God's will.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

It says very clearly they don't. They are limited by God's will.

13 Come now, you who say, “Today or tomorrow [h]we will go to such and such a city, spend a year there, buy and sell, and make a profit”; 14 whereas you do not know what will happentomorrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapor that appears for a little time and then vanishes away. 15 Instead you ought to say, “If the Lord wills, we shall live and do this or that.” 16 But now you boast in your arrogance. All such boasting is evil.

It says when we do things we aught to say if it is gods will. I do that all the time.

it does not mean I chose his will

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

The natural man can be distraught. It isn't something produced by the Spirit.

Being distraught is when God is not speaking to you, it is called long suffering.

I have been there when my pride had yet to be stomped on by God.

God did not speak to me for months

Same thing happened with Saul.

But your saying Saul was a natural man.

Are you saying God the father would let his holy spirit change Saul just to be a natural man to lead his people.

Remember his sin was he let compassion rule his thoughts, instead of obeying Gods commands

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Grace by defenition means unmerited or unearned favor..

And yes, Gods good will, he sent his son to die so grace can be offered to everyone.. Grace is free to the one who recieved, But it had a price. The cross

Not wise to use the oxford dictionary, like the interpretation has done in the amplified version, its best to use Gods character. And where grace has been spoken.

Here's one, if your willing, i can show you more, but it's not my doctrine it's God's.


Philippians 2:13

New International Version



13 for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose.[/QUOTE]

 

[Cameron143]

13 Come now, you who say, “Today or tomorrow [h]we will go to such and such a city, spend a year there, buy and sell, and make a profit”; 14 whereas you do not know what will happentomorrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapor that appears for a little time and then vanishes away. 15 Instead you ought to say, “If the Lord wills, we shall live and do this or that.” 16 But now you boast in your arrogance. All such boasting is evil.

It says when we do things we aught to say if it is gods will. I do that all the time.

it does not mean I chose his will

It does say our plans are subject to His will. We do not have unfettered free will.
Can you choose to be another race?
Can you choose to be born?
What is your favorite color? Did you choose it independently of how God created you?
Can you throw a football a hundred yards?
Can you speak and things that were not now are?
There are literally millions of things you cannot do regardless of your free will.