the Sabbath

[vassal]

Grace ...faith.... righteousness in Jesus.
We all agree that Jesus is the only way we can stand justified in the judgement.

And you seem to agree that the fruits of following Jesus is good works.

Why are 9 of the 10 commandments okay to keep because you are bearing fruits as a result of faith, but as soon as the sabbath is mentioned it becomes legalism?

Why are 9 of the 10 commandments good laws to obey but 1 is stained with many arguments to try and show that it should be forgotten?

The law is holy and just and good.
It is Spiritual and Paul delights in it.
The law is perfect,

We fail to obey it perfectly but the law is perfect. God gave Jesus and He perfectly obeyed it so that we could be gifted His righteousness. The law has not been removed, it remains as the perfect standard.

Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

you are right, there is plenty of reason to to keep them all the first and most important is because God asks us to also;
Exo 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.

We know that Jesus, the disciples, Paul before and after the crucifixion kept the Sabbat(s) it is men who changed the laws not GOD, it is a test of faith to remember GOD and honour him. No wonder it was changed, Satan wants us all dead and forever, he accuses us constantly before the lord because people prefer to believe Satan's lies.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

you are right, there is plenty of reason to to keep them all the first and most important is because God asks us to also;
Exo 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.

We know that Jesus, the disciples, Paul before and after the crucifixion kept the Sabbat(s) it is men who changed the laws not GOD, it is a test of faith to remember GOD and honour him. No wonder it was changed, Satan wants us all dead and forever, he accuses us constantly before the lord because people prefer to believe Satan's lies.

Amen! We have to have room for faith.

Isn’t it ironic the one commandment God said to Remember is the one man teaches to forget?

 

[vassal]

I understand what the Pharisees did. They had turned the Sabbath into a burden, adding restrictions beyond what God’s law said. Neither Jesus nor His disciples had broken God’s law. They had only violated the Pharisees’ legalistic, interpretation of the law. Jesus reminded the Pharisees of the original intent of the Sabbath.

I have not changed the Sabbath day from Saturday to Sunday, yet you seem quick to condemn those who worship God on Sunday instead of Saturday and refer to them as the new Pharisees. You seem to have a lot of faith in commandment keeping for salvation (with a heavy emphasis on the 4th commandment). So is that where you draw the line on how obedient and holy one must be in order to be saved? ONLY those who have sufficiently obeyed the 10 commandments will be saved? Is that your answer?

I am not condemning anyone and even less judging anyone, I think there is a better way, that is to follow the commandments given by GOD Not because you have to but because you love GOD. the penalty is paid in full why waste this precious gift, is the proof of GOD's Love not enough for us? Cant we simply Love God back the way he intended?

Where do you draw the line? on how obedient? it is a good question, Jesus explained to us the wrongdoings of the pharisees, we must not be trapped behind all their additions to the Laws that is certain like buying a dishwasher with a Sabbath feature... I admit as a non Jewish I have not studied all the requirements and I dont want to, I know the commandments are Love, first to GOD, then your neighbour. At this point I do my best with the knowledge GOD gave me . If i can follow in a better way i will also. the laws are mostly spiritual in nature we must try to Honour God in Spirit always by doing what is right in his eyes not ours. God is Holy and wants us to be Holy, we are made in his Image ans he has a purpose for us certainly.

Blessings.

 

[vassal]

In regard to Acts 13:42-44, Paul's work here was evangelism. Notice that these were "unbelievers" in Christ before Paul preached to them. Yes they believed in the Jewish system, but the Bible says in Acts 14:1, that they BECAME believers proving Paul's work there was evangelism and not sabbath worship.

The Greeks were Jewish converts to Judaism known as proselytes. They practiced the law of Moses and kept the sabbath. The only Greeks that were in the synagogue would be these proselytes. These Greeks were certainly not Christians. Acts 13:43 "Now when the meeting of the synagogue had broken up, many of the Jews and of the God-fearing proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas, who, speaking to them, were urging them to continue in the grace of God." 44 On the next sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God. 45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy; and contradicting and blaspheming, they opposed the things spoken by Paul. 46 Then Paul and Barnabas grew bold and said, "It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; but since you reject it, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, behold, we turn to the Gentiles.

Acts 14:1 - "In Iconium they entered the synagogue of the Jews together and spoke in such a manner that a large number of people believed, both of Jews and of Greeks."

Acts 17:4 - "And some of them were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, along with a large number of the God-fearing Greeks and a number of the leading women.

Acts 18:4 - "And he was reasoning in the synagogue every Sabbath and trying to persuade Jews and Greeks."

Paul's work there was evangelism and not sabbath worship.

Mailman, I want you to know something that is not written per say but that everyone can figure out, it is Peter that was appointed by GOD to the gentiles see Acts 15;7. Also note in revelations 21;
Rev 21:9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
Rev 21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
Rev 21:11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
Rev 21:12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
Rev 21:13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
Rev 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

 

[vassal]

Amen! We have to have room for faith.

Isn’t it ironic the one commandment God said to Remember is the one man teaches to forget?

it is the ultimate test of faith and for us to prove our Love to GOD! I see it this way.

 

[vassal]

And there would be a thus saith the Lord- God personally wrote the Sabbath- He blessed, sanctified and made it holy- only He can reverse this, not man. Without the seal of God on the Sabbath that shows He is the Creator and Author the other 9 commandments are useless because we can’t do anything without His power. All the thus saith the Lords in scripture regarding the Sabbath and there are many are for us to keep and not profane.

Also GOD asked Moses to build an ark of the covenant to keen within the tables of stone containing the 10 commandments written by the hand of GOD himself not only thet but this ARK now called Ark of the testimony in Revalations was Seen in Heaven, this surely indicates the special and Permanent status of the commandments.

Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

 

[vassal]

Christians are not written out of God's new covenant promise and the body of Christ is not physical Israel in the Old Testament either. (Exodus 31:16-17; 35:1-3; Deuteronomy 5:15) I already thoroughly explained Mark 2:27 and Isaiah 56:6 to you multiple times, but unfortunately, you are unable to see anything beyond your SDA church indoctrination.

In a spiritual sense, in Romans 3:28, we read - There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. Also see 1 Corinthians 12:13 and Ephesians 3:6.

you wrote: "Christians are not written out of God's new covenant promise" I agree with you here completely I think anyone who does GOD's will is under the new covenant, Jews and Gentiles, It is why GOD sent Peter to the gentiles.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

it is the ultimate test of faith and for us to prove our Love to GOD! I see it this way.

I see it that way too. God always tests His people to see if their faith is real. The Tree was the test for Adam and Eve and their sin (in eating from the tree broke a lot of commandments) separated them from God Isa 59:2 and I believe the Sabbath is our test as well- as end times comes down to worship Rev 13, Rev 14 and Jesus equated worship to obedience to the Ten Commandments Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13 . Not keeping the Sabbath to be saved, but through faith and living by His every Word. The amount of scripture on the Sabbath that came out of the mouth of God is such a powerful study. I may write a thread on it.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Also GOD asked Moses to build an ark of the covenant to keen within the tables of stone containing the 10 commandments written by the hand of GOD himself not only thet but this ARK now called Ark of the testimony in Revalations was Seen in Heaven, this surely indicates the special and Permanent status of the commandments.

Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Exactly! This is what I try to explain to people on why the Sabbath can't be changed the way God wrote it Exo 20 because the earthy temple was a miniature/mirror of God's heavenly Temple. It is exactly how God wrote and spoke the Ten Commandments.

Jesus said not one dot or tittle can be changed because how can something written by God's own finger that is in His heavenly temple that is perfect Psa 19:7 be changed by man. No man is above God, even His servants. His servants obeyed Him.

Heb 8:1-5 Now this is the main point of the things we are saying: We have such a High Priest, who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, 2 a Minister of the sanctuary and of the true tabernacle which the Lord erected, and not man.
3 For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices. Therefore it is necessary that this One also have something to offer. 4 For if He were on earth, He would not be a priest, since there are priests who offer the gifts according to the law; 5 who serve the copy and shadow of the heavenly things, as Moses was divinely instructed when he was about to make the tabernacle. For He said, “See that you make all things according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.”

In heaven the covering Cherubs over His Mercy Seat where lies the Ten Commandments are real Angels. Lucifer was a covering cherub Eze 28:14 so Lucifer guarded God's law until iniquity was found in him, where he wanted to be like the Most High. Isa 14:14

I think that's why there is such an attack on the Sabbath commandment, its the one commandment that shows the authority is God of heaven and earth- He is the Creator of all things, something Satan can't replica so he spends his time attacking it.

It was predicted in scripture the Sabbath would change Dan 7:25 there is clear evidence in history the Sabbath was changed and the church who admits to changing it was based on their authority not Christ. It's interesting they even claim the change of the Sabbath is the mark of their authority.

The only safeguard we have is to follow God's Word Psa 119:105 and trust the commandments He gave us, all of them because He knows whats best for us and is trying to reconcile us back to Him

Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city

Everything gets restore so if we look at Creation where God hallowed the Sabbath from the beginning Gen 2:1-3 Exo 20:11 we can see a taste of God's perfect plan for mankind and why it gets restored Isa 66:22-23

 

[SabbathBlessing]

In regard to Acts 13:42-44, Paul's work here was evangelism. Notice that these were "unbelievers" in Christ before Paul preached to them. Yes they believed in the Jewish system, but the Bible says in Acts 14:1, that they BECAME believers proving Paul's work there was evangelism and not sabbath worship.

The Greeks were Jewish converts to Judaism known as proselytes. They practiced the law of Moses and kept the sabbath. The only Greeks that were in the synagogue would be these proselytes. These Greeks were certainly not Christians. Acts 13:43 "Now when the meeting of the synagogue had broken up, many of the Jews and of the God-fearing proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas, who, speaking to them, were urging them to continue in the grace of God." 44 On the next sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God. 45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy; and contradicting and blaspheming, they opposed the things spoken by Paul. 46 Then Paul and Barnabas grew bold and said, "It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; but since you reject it, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, behold, we turn to the Gentiles.

Acts 14:1 - "In Iconium they entered the synagogue of the Jews together and spoke in such a manner that a large number of people believed, both of Jews and of Greeks."

Acts 17:4 - "And some of them were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, along with a large number of the God-fearing Greeks and a number of the leading women.

Acts 18:4 - "And he was reasoning in the synagogue every Sabbath and trying to persuade Jews and Greeks."

Paul's work there was evangelism and not sabbath worship.

Here is the definition of evangelism
the spreading of the Christian gospel by public preaching or personal witness.

The apostles did this every Sabbath preaching to both Jew and Gentiles. They followed the exact example of Jesus who kept the Sabbath Luke 4:16

When there wasn't churches in the area they still kept the Sabbath as shown by Timothy a Gentile Acts 16:13

So are you saying spreading Christian gospel is not a form of worship? It's definitely not an example of profaning the Sabbath or not keeping it holy.

If the Sabbath ended at the cross, there would be no Sabbath-keeping instead of keeping every Sabbath 30 some years later preaching God's Word to Jews and Gentiles, reading the scriptures, teaching God's Word, prayer, reasoning from the scriptures- all good examples of how to keep the Sabbath holy.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

They practiced the law of Moses and kept the sabbath.

The Sabbath is a commandment of God.

Exo 34:28 So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He (God) wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

Deut 4: 13 So He (God) declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.

Nothing more was added to the Ten Commandments

Deut 5:22 “These words the Lord spoke to all your assembly, in the mountain from the midst of the fire, the cloud, and the thick darkness, with a loud voice; and He added no more. And He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me.

The Ten Commandments- God's perfect law was placed inside the ark of the covenant Exo 40:20. All the other laws was placed outside. Deuteronomy 31:26

Two different covenants, that serves two different purposes.

Jesus called the Ten Commandments- the commandments of God and it is what defines sin Rom 7:7 and what we will be Judged by James 2:10-12 Mat 5:19-30 Ecc 12:13-14. Called the law of liberty because when Jesus resides in us we keep them through His righteousness and He kept all of them including the Sabbath and this frees us from the bondage of sin to live freely in Christ.

Matthew 15:3 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’

Only found in the Ten Commandments Exodus 20. Why He calls them My commandments right in the Ten Exo 20:6

 

[vassal]

I see it that way too. God always tests His people to see if their faith is real. The Tree was the test for Adam and Eve and their sin (in eating from the tree broke a lot of commandments) separated them from God Isa 59:2 and I believe the Sabbath is our test as well- as end times comes down to worship Rev 13, Rev 14 and Jesus equated worship to obedience to the Ten Commandments Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13 . Not keeping the Sabbath to be saved, but through faith and living by His every Word. The amount of scripture on the Sabbath that came out of the mouth of God is such a powerful study. I may write a thread on it.

yes you should start a thread on it I am certain it would benefit me also.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

yes you should start a thread on it I am certain it would benefit me also.

I will hopefully soon.

 

[Inquisitor]

Amen. God said the Sabbath is His holy day that He made holy for us as we are made in His image- how could what He created for us to be a blessing and sanctifying be anything else.

God personally wrote Ten Commandments, not nine, we have to have room for faith on the commandment He said to Remember that reveals Him as the Author of His law and all Creation..

God spoke the 10 commandments before He wrote them.

 

[Inquisitor]

In regard to Acts 13:42-44, Paul's work here was evangelism. Notice that these were "unbelievers" in Christ before Paul preached to them. Yes they believed in the Jewish system, but the Bible says in Acts 14:1, that they BECAME believers proving Paul's work there was evangelism and not sabbath worship.

The Greeks were Jewish converts to Judaism known as proselytes. They practiced the law of Moses and kept the sabbath. The only Greeks that were in the synagogue would be these proselytes. These Greeks were certainly not Christians. Acts 13:43 "Now when the meeting of the synagogue had broken up, many of the Jews and of the God-fearing proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas, who, speaking to them, were urging them to continue in the grace of God." 44 On the next sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God. 45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy; and contradicting and blaspheming, they opposed the things spoken by Paul. 46 Then Paul and Barnabas grew bold and said, "It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; but since you reject it, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, behold, we turn to the Gentiles.

Acts 14:1 - "In Iconium they entered the synagogue of the Jews together and spoke in such a manner that a large number of people believed, both of Jews and of Greeks."

Acts 17:4 - "And some of them were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, along with a large number of the God-fearing Greeks and a number of the leading women.

Acts 18:4 - "And he was reasoning in the synagogue every Sabbath and trying to persuade Jews and Greeks."

Paul's work there was evangelism and not sabbath worship.

Sabbath rest.

 

[Inquisitor]

Sad. Believe and explain away any scripture we want, your commentary is not in the scripture and we are warned not to add to God’s Word Pro 30:5-6.

If the Sabbath ended at the Cross as you have suggested, the apostles would have explained that in clear easy to understand words and instead of keeping every Sabbath 30 years after. When the Gentiles begged for more preaching the next Sabbath Paul could have easily stated we now worship on the first day, but he never did that, they faithfully kept every Sabbath per Jesus command, Mat 28:18-20


I wish you well in seeking Truth to God’s Word, don’t think we will come to any agreement, but wish you well.

If you fail to understand Jesus was speaking to the Jews. Jesus was sent to the circumcised. Then, of course, you will misunderstand the role of the law. Your reading of the gospels is the traditional reading of the scripture.

Your misunderstanding leads you directly into the works of the law. This direction leads you slowly away from from solely trusting in Jesus Christ. Whether it's 9 or 10 commandments it matters not, the point is your under the works of the law.

The Gentiles were never given the law or even the sabbath.

See if I am correct?

All you have to do is look at the commandments given in Acts 15. The apostles did not give the Gentiles the sabbath or the law.
That's what the scripture states. If you have some other opinion, then that opinion will not be supported by the scripture. You will need to bend the scripture to place the Gentiles under the law.

The Gentiles are the uncircumcised which means the Gentiles are not under the law.

The only thing a Gentile can perform in the law is circumcision and celebrating the Passover.

 

[Inquisitor]

you are right, there is plenty of reason to to keep them all the first and most important is because God asks us to also;
Exo 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.

We know that Jesus, the disciples, Paul before and after the crucifixion kept the Sabbat(s) it is men who changed the laws not GOD, it is a test of faith to remember GOD and honour him. No wonder it was changed, Satan wants us all dead and forever, he accuses us constantly before the lord because people prefer to believe Satan's lies.

Exo 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel

God was not addressing the Gentiles, that's what the text clearly states.

The apostles were Jews and had to keep the sabbath on pain of death.

The uncircumcised were never under the sabbath commandment.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

If you fail to understand Jesus was speaking to the Jews. Jesus was sent to the circumcised. Then, of course, you will misunderstand the role of the law. Your reading of the gospels is the traditional reading of the scripture.

Your misunderstanding leads you directly into the works of the law. This direction leads you slowly away from from solely trusting in Jesus Christ. Whether it's 9 or 10 commandments it matters not, the point is your under the works of the law.

The Gentiles were never given the law or even the sabbath.

See if I am correct?

All you have to do is look at the commandments given in Acts 15. The apostles did not give the Gentiles the sabbath or the law.
That's what the scripture states. If you have some other opinion, then that opinion will not be supported by the scripture. You will need to bend the scripture to place the Gentiles under the law.

The Gentiles are the uncircumcised which means the Gentiles are not under the law.

The only thing a Gentile can perform in the law is circumcision and celebrating the Passover.

Acts 15 is about circumcision.

Acts 15:1 And certain men came down from Judea and taught the brethren, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.”

So Gentiles are free to murder, vain God's name, covet and steal? How does this reconcile with the very teachings of Jesus. Jesus in His own Words said the Sabbath was made for mankind and for everyone. Mark 2:27 Isa 56:1-6

In God's Covenant- there is no Jew or Gentiles, just God's people adopted in through faith Gal 3:26-28. God's people keep God's commandments.

 

[Inquisitor]

Acts 15 is about circumcision.

Acts 15:1 And certain men came down from Judea and taught the brethren, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.”

Absolutely correct.

Circumcision is the initiation into the law, babies are circumcised on the eight day.

Circumcision is another name for the Jews.

Jesus was only sent to the circumcised.

The law was given to the circumcised at Mt Sinai.

Romans 3:3
Then what advantage does the Jew have? Or what is the benefit of circumcision? 2 Great in every respect. First, that they were entrusted with the actual words of God.

Paul is talking to the Jews in Rome.

Below, the two distinct people are identified.

Romans 3:30 since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one.

"will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith"

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Absolutely correct.

Circumcision is the initiation into the law, babies are circumcised on the eight day.

Circumcision is another name for the Jews.

Jesus was only sent to the circumcised.

The law was given to the circumcised at Mt Sinai.

Romans 3:3
Then what advantage does the Jew have? Or what is the benefit of circumcision? 2 Great in every respect. First, that they were entrusted with the actual words of God.

Paul is talking to the Jews in Rome.

Below, the two distinct people are identified.

Romans 3:30 since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one.

"will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith"

Thats right we are all justified through faith, those with faith uphold His law. Romans 3:31

In Acts 15 the were referring to physical circumcision, it wasn't a discussion if Gentiles can worship other gods, bow to images or break the least of these commandments, while Jews couldn't. We are all saved the same way by grace through faith- those with faith keep God's commandments because Christ resides in His people and imputes His righteousness and He kept all of the commandments and enables us to as well. John 14:15-18. If we are hostile to this, we need to consider what this means Rom 8:7-8 and listen to the Holy Spirit calling on us out of rebellion Heb 3:7-8 and submit ourself to Christ and in doing so, one would be keeping His commandments through faith and love. John 14:15-18 1 John 5:3 John 14:15 Exo 20:6 John 15:10 which reconciles us Rev 22:14