Predestination is misunderstood...
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this depends on what one believes about Christ's atonement, whether one believes the Lord Jesus died to really save, or make mankind savable. what do you believe the Atonement actually accomplished?
i believe it was a real atonement. sufficient for pantas, efficacious for some.
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high (Heb 1:3, KJV just for you
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when were your sins purged? when you believed, or when He died?
i believe it was a real atonement. sufficient for pantas, efficacious for some.
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high (Heb 1:3, KJV just for you
)when were your sins purged? when you believed, or when He died?
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this depends on what one believes about Christ's atonement, whether one believes the Lord Jesus died to really save, or make mankind savable. what do you believe the Atonement actually accomplished?
i believe it was a real atonement. sufficient for pantas, efficacious for some.
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high (Heb 1:3, KJV just for you )
when were your sins purged? when you believed, or when He died?
i believe it was a real atonement. sufficient for pantas, efficacious for some.
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high (Heb 1:3, KJV just for you
)when were your sins purged? when you believed, or when He died?
Where my sins purged at the cross.. Or at Belief.
I think if we look at it. All sins were purged at the cross. as Jesus said, ALL (every) sin and blasphemy WILL be forgiven men,
But there is a sin that is not forgiven, And as he warned the pharisees, They were in danger of committing that sin
one must ask then, What is that sin?
According to Jesus himself. Whoever believes is no longer condemned, Whoever does not believe is already in a state of condemnation.
Thus the command to repent from your unbelief, and come to a state of belief.
If we look at the great white throne, no one is judged for their sin.. They are judged for their works. Sadly, they are found wanting (their works could not save them) so their final judgment is based on whether they repented or not.
If we die in a state of unbelief, we have died in that sin that will never be forgiven.
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I agree the cross opened salvation to all. But God hasn't sought out all. If He had, missionaries wouldn't have been necessary. But they were sent to introduce the gospel to people groups who before that time knew not God. Before that time, these groups were not sought out. Who delivered the gospel to Indians in America? For many hundreds of years they were left without the gospel. This is just one example of many. God isn't always striving with men.
1) God reveals more truth when we respond rightly to what he’s already revealed.
Before getting overwhelmed with the mysteries, we should keep in mind the fact that the whole Bible is a record of God revealing himself to people! Scripture is replete with references to the reality that God intends for us to seek him (see esp. Acts 17:22-28; also 2 Chronicles 15:1-4; Jeremiah 29:12-13), and he gives us enough information to do so. But he does so without forcing it upon us, because he wants a willing response of faith from people; he doesn’t manipulate them into a relationship against their will.
The reality is that we don’t get the privilege of having more truth until we respond rightly in faith to what God already shows everyone. That would include his glory in creation and his principles in our consciences (Romans 1:18-21). It also includes what Christ has done for us all on the cross — that great and public revelation of God’s love for us — and what’s been recorded in Scripture for all to read. God reveals truth to those who seek and obey, and he hides truth from those who resist and rebel.
We see this principle in Jesus’ ministry. When the Jewish leaders began actively rejecting and resisting Jesus, he began preaching in parables (or riddles) so that only those who were really seeking the truth would find it in what Jesus was teaching. As he would famously say, “Whoever has ears, let them hear” (Matthew 13:9, NIV) — in other words, only those who were actively listening for and seeking the truth would find it.
For every question you’d love for God to answer, ask yourself: Am I obeying what he’s revealed already?
Before getting overwhelmed with the mysteries, we should keep in mind the fact that the whole Bible is a record of God revealing himself to people! Scripture is replete with references to the reality that God intends for us to seek him (see esp. Acts 17:22-28; also 2 Chronicles 15:1-4; Jeremiah 29:12-13), and he gives us enough information to do so. But he does so without forcing it upon us, because he wants a willing response of faith from people; he doesn’t manipulate them into a relationship against their will.
The reality is that we don’t get the privilege of having more truth until we respond rightly in faith to what God already shows everyone. That would include his glory in creation and his principles in our consciences (Romans 1:18-21). It also includes what Christ has done for us all on the cross — that great and public revelation of God’s love for us — and what’s been recorded in Scripture for all to read. God reveals truth to those who seek and obey, and he hides truth from those who resist and rebel.
We see this principle in Jesus’ ministry. When the Jewish leaders began actively rejecting and resisting Jesus, he began preaching in parables (or riddles) so that only those who were really seeking the truth would find it in what Jesus was teaching. As he would famously say, “Whoever has ears, let them hear” (Matthew 13:9, NIV) — in other words, only those who were actively listening for and seeking the truth would find it.
For every question you’d love for God to answer, ask yourself: Am I obeying what he’s revealed already?
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[1] Granted, there are folks in certain strands of Christianity who hold a more deterministic outlook regarding how people come to faith, but the Bible presupposes that human choice genuinely matters (see, for example, Deuteronomy 30:19; Joshua 24:15; Ezekiel 18:23; John 6:29; John 7:17; Romans 10:21).
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Blasphemy of the HS by definition is to dissent from what the HS is teaching, or to call a liar. or to aatribute his work to someone else.
This is exactly what you do when you do not believe, it is him you are calling a liar, since it is his job to draw you to Christ and convict you.
Like I said. He told the pharisees (who did that very thing) they were in danger. they could still be forgiven.. Its when we die in that state that we are no longer forgivable.
I know its confusing.
This is exactly what you do when you do not believe, it is him you are calling a liar, since it is his job to draw you to Christ and convict you.
Like I said. He told the pharisees (who did that very thing) they were in danger. they could still be forgiven.. Its when we die in that state that we are no longer forgivable.
I know its confusing.
Oops cookies again 😂
@Cameron143 I have a question for you.
Acts 2:37-39
New International Version
37 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”
38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”
What promise are children under seeing as they can't commit to anything, 🤔
And why will the lord call them, if people need to call first.
@Cameron143 I have a question for you.
Acts 2:37-39
New International Version
37 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”
38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”
What promise are children under seeing as they can't commit to anything, 🤔
And why will the lord call them, if people need to call first.
All good stuff. Thanks. But it really boils down to this: what is a spiritually dead person capable of? And what is actually true of God compared to what we believe is true of God?
Your closing statement is a good example. What does it mean to have ears to hear? Is this an alertness on our part? Or is it a supernatural imparting? How people answer those questions will influence their understanding.
We are a long way from a unity of the faith. And forums such as this are helpful so long as discussions don't devolve into insult sessions.
Your closing statement is a good example. What does it mean to have ears to hear? Is this an alertness on our part? Or is it a supernatural imparting? How people answer those questions will influence their understanding.
We are a long way from a unity of the faith. And forums such as this are helpful so long as discussions don't devolve into insult sessions.