MYSTERY, BABYLON

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zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
you want to see where you belief comes from. and the hate the people who made your belief had for t=the jews.

Martin Luther - On the Jews and Their Lies
i'll say it again: do some more research.

Luther was PRO-JEWS.

he was all for protection and treating with MUTUAL DIGNITY.....

UNTIL HE FOUND THE TALMUD.

have you looked at it yet? the TALMUD legitimizes lying, murder, slavery, sexual depravity...because gentiles ARE NOT HUMAN BEINGS.
it's ALL in the Talmud.
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
Why are they waiting for a rebuilt temple, when the real temple is the body of Christ? By pointing to some myth and urban legend of a rebuilt temple, you're pointing Jews away from the true temple of God.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
It's not anti semitic to say God will judge Jews who crucified and rejected Jesus.

Yes bad people used that truth as a means to harm Jews,but that doesn't mean the truth is evil. It just means evil people used that truth.
Yeah they did. And they also switched to a symbolic interpretation of scripture sop they could get all their "pagan" rites and traditions which they mixed into true christianity believable because a literal interpretation would nto allow it. And this is where ammilenialism came from. It fit in perfectly with their plan and allowd them to further carry out their hate of all things jewsih.

Just like you think I get my faith from scofield. Which I did not by the way. I got it from studying it for 30 years. This is where I believe your belief started. Because your faith demands a symbolic interpretation. If you interpret prophesy literally your faith fails. for only through symbology can a 1000 years NOT be 1000 literal years.
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
Yeah they did. And they also switched to a symbolic interpretation of scripture sop they could get all their "pagan" rites and traditions which they mixed into true christianity believable because a literal interpretation would nto allow it. And this is where ammilenialism came from. It fit in perfectly with their plan and allowd them to further carry out their hate of all things jewsih.

Just like you think I get my faith from scofield. Which I did not by the way. I got it from studying it for 30 years. This is where I believe your belief started. Because your faith demands a symbolic interpretation. If you interpret prophesy literally your faith fails. for only through symbology can a 1000 years NOT be 1000 literal years.
Nothin symbolic. The temple is now his body...Jew and Gentile are now one...No temple needed. No need for a distinction of Jew and gentile.

11 So then, remember that at one time you were Gentiles in the flesh—called "the uncircumcised" by those called "the circumcised," done by hand in the flesh. 12 At that time you were without the Messiah, excluded from the citizenship of Israel, and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, with no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus, you who were far away have been brought near by the blood of the Messiah. 14 For He is our peace, who made both groups one and tore down the dividing wall of hostility. In His flesh, 15 He did away with the law of the commandments in regulations, so that He might create in Himself one new man from the two, resulting in peace. 16 [He did this so] that He might reconcile both to God in one body through the cross and put the hostility to death by it. [d] 17 When [Christ] came, He proclaimed the good news of peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father. 19 So then you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with the saints, and members of God's household, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus Himself as the cornerstone. 21 The whole building is being fitted together in Him and is growing into a holy sanctuary in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together for God's dwelling in the Spirit.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Why are they waiting for a rebuilt temple, when the real temple is the body of Christ? By pointing to some myth and urban legend of a rebuilt temple, you're pointing Jews away from the true temple of God.
why? because they are blind. How can someone make an abomination of a temple which is not there Still?

And don't say titus did it. he did not he destroyed it.

Daniel says the people of the prince who is to come destroys the temple. The romans destroyed the temple. so who is the prince who comes from the romans that makes the abomination? and how can it happen when there is no temple?

It is the severe hatred of the house of isreal during the last three and a half years of daniel which causes them to cry out to God. And this is when their eyes are opened. And jerusalem repents and declares jesus is lord. And this is when Jesus said they would see him again.

This is when the prophesy of the dry bones is fulfilled.

This is when daniel 9 is fulfilled. And the "end of sin" has happened for daniels people. Daniel was not praying for the churhc or the gentiles. He was pryaing for HIS PEOPLE. You have to have Daniel praying for all mankind to have dan 9 literally fulfilled.


Let me ask you a question. Who can restrain satan? If satan enters the man of sin called the "son of perdition" who can restrain him??

 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Nothin symbolic. The temple is now his body...Jew and Gentile are now one...No temple needed. No need for a distinction of Jew and gentile.

11 So then, remember that at one time you were Gentiles in the flesh—called "the uncircumcised" by those called "the circumcised," done by hand in the flesh. 12 At that time you were without the Messiah, excluded from the citizenship of Israel, and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, with no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus, you who were far away have been brought near by the blood of the Messiah. 14 For He is our peace, who made both groups one and tore down the dividing wall of hostility. In His flesh, 15 He did away with the law of the commandments in regulations, so that He might create in Himself one new man from the two, resulting in peace. 16 [He did this so] that He might reconcile both to God in one body through the cross and put the hostility to death by it. [d] 17 When [Christ] came, He proclaimed the good news of peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father. 19 So then you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with the saints, and members of God's household, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus Himself as the cornerstone. 21 The whole building is being fitted together in Him and is growing into a holy sanctuary in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together for God's dwelling in the Spirit.

Daneil 9 has not been literally fulfilled.

1000 years can not be a literal 1000 years.

Christ reigning on earth is not a literal reign

you telling me there is nothing symbolic?
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
why? because they are blind. How can someone make an abomination of a temple which is not there Still?

And don't say titus did it. he did not he destroyed it.

Daniel says the people of the prince who is to come destroys the temple. The romans destroyed the temple. so who is the prince who comes from the romans that makes the abomination? and how can it happen when there is no temple?

It is the severe hatred of the house of isreal during the last three and a half years of daniel which causes them to cry out to God. And this is when their eyes are opened. And jerusalem repents and declares jesus is lord. And this is when Jesus said they would see him again.

This is when the prophesy of the dry bones is fulfilled.

This is when daniel 9 is fulfilled. And the "end of sin" has happened for daniels people. Daniel was not praying for the churhc or the gentiles. He was pryaing for HIS PEOPLE. You have to have Daniel praying for all mankind to have dan 9 literally fulfilled.


Let me ask you a question. Who can restrain satan? If satan enters the man of sin called the "son of perdition" who can restrain him??

Wow talk about presuppositions imposed on the text.

I don't have the patience to type out the paragraphs it would take to untangle all the dispensational nonsense I see up there.

Nonsense to me bro. I mean I know why you believe it, but to me its nonsense.

I hope our back and forth isn't coming across as anything personal. I'm coming more at your ideas than at you as a person.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Wow talk about presuppositions imposed on the text.

I don't have the patience to type out the paragraphs it would take to untangle all the dispensational nonsense I see up there.

Nonsense to me bro. I mean I know why you believe it, but to me its nonsense.

I hope our back and forth isn't coming across as anything personal. I'm coming more at your ideas than at you as a person.
as I am yours. as always. nothing personal. I only know of one who takes it that way

yours is nonsense to me also.. thats why we are so far apart. and why i do not just want to make a few word sentence. i want to show you why I can't believe as you do.
 
A

Abiding

Guest
why? because they are blind. How can someone make an abomination of a temple which is not there Still?

And don't say titus did it. he did not he destroyed it.

Daniel says the people of the prince who is to come destroys the temple. The romans destroyed the temple. so who is the prince who comes from the romans that makes the abomination? and how can it happen when there is no temple?

It is the severe hatred of the house of isreal during the last three and a half years of daniel which causes them to cry out to God. And this is when their eyes are opened. And jerusalem repents and declares jesus is lord. And this is when Jesus said they would see him again.

This is when the prophesy of the dry bones is fulfilled.

This is when daniel 9 is fulfilled. And the "end of sin" has happened for daniels people. Daniel was not praying for the churhc or the gentiles. He was pryaing for HIS PEOPLE. You have to have Daniel praying for all mankind to have dan 9 literally fulfilled.


Let me ask you a question. Who can restrain satan? If satan enters the man of sin called the "son of perdition" who can restrain him??

Titus brought flag standards into the holy of holies and worshiped ceaser...ha u told still not to tell ya
 
J

Jacob12

Guest
they have been atempting to rebuild the 3rd temple for several yrs and it will happen. 2nd peter 1:20 tell us that "no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation." In Dan 8:23-24 Nebuchadnezzar is told that " in the LATTER time.... a king of fierce countenance,and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up. vs 25 "and he shall magnify himself in his heart and shall...he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand. Notice it says in the LATTER time. Also Jesus tells us in Matt 24: 15 that this abomination of desolation "will stand in the holy place" Matt 24:21-29 tells us that in those days shall be great tribulation as was not since the beginning of the world to this time'( didn't happened yet) vs 24 for there shall arise false Christs and false prophets that shall SHEW GREAT SIGNS AND WONDERS
 
J

Jacob12

Guest
hasn't happened yet, Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the earth shall be shaken (hasn't happened yet, and remember this is after the abomination of desolation stands in the holy place which is not yet built or destroyed)
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
By the way still. You can't dismantal me. You can try all you want. But you can't. My faith is secure. it is sound, and it is founded on literal interpretation of scripture.

So why you have that fancy little link to show people how to dismantal me is kinda odd. But hey. So be it.

EG
why are you taking this personally?
you struggle against Romes dogma (and rightly so)

the Catholics here try not be personally offended though their religion is continually debated and argued against...

you struggle against works righteousness (and rightly so).

the self-righteous are ALWAYS offended by the scandal of the cross. nothing new.

some of us read scripture using Covenant theology (no dispensationalism) - why do you take this personally?

this is about DOCTRINE.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
hasn't happened yet, Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the earth shall be shaken (hasn't happened yet, and remember this is after the abomination of desolation stands in the holy place which is not yet built or destroyed)
Matthew 24 refers to 70AD >. no disciple of Christ's perished in 70AD - they escaped exactly because they heeded His warning.

but the Lord's words answer a 2 -fold question....and His answer recapitulates the things that will happen in the Last Days (this always refers to the time between the First & Second Advents). including the time right at the end.

many prophecies give a near fulfillment and a far fulfillment (many mentioning the cosmic signs signalling the return - i.e. Joel).
 
J

Jacob12

Guest
the scripture also says that the Lord's kindom will be here on earth in many places, it is impossible to argue that it has already been setup according to the bible Dan 7:27 and the kingdom and dominion and greatness of the kingdom UNDER THE WHOLE HEAVEN, shall be given to the people of the saints of the Most High. Rev 21:2-3 And I john saw the holy city coming down out of heaven.... Behold the tabernacle of God is with men, and he shall dwell with them. Even in the Lord prayer it states "thy kingdom come". whats coming? the kingdom. Psalms 72:7-8 In his days shall the righteous flourish; and abundance of peace so long as the moon endureth. He shall have dominion from sea to sea, and from the river unto the end of the earth" vs 11 yea, all kings shall fall down before him all NATIONS shall serve him" vs19 ....and let the whole earth be filled with his glory
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
the scripture also says that the Lord's kindom will be here on earth in many places, it is impossible to argue that it has already been setup according to the bible Dan 7:27 and the kingdom and dominion and greatness of the kingdom UNDER THE WHOLE HEAVEN, shall be given to the people of the saints of the Most High. Rev 21:2-3 And I john saw the holy city coming down out of heaven.... Behold the tabernacle of God is with men, and he shall dwell with them. Even in the Lord prayer it states "thy kingdom come". whats coming? the kingdom. Psalms 72:7-8 In his days shall the righteous flourish; and abundance of peace so long as the moon endureth. He shall have dominion from sea to sea, and from the river unto the end of the earth" vs 11 yea, all kings shall fall down before him all NATIONS shall serve him" vs19 ....and let the whole earth be filled with his glory
not this earth, friend.
 
J

Jacob12

Guest
Sorry Bro but the sun and moon didn't turn dark nor did the stars of heaven fall in 70 A.D. (immediately after the tribulation) Nor did Christ return to destroy those performing great signs and wonders nor did man posses the capability to end human existance Matt 24:22-30 nor was it a time of tribulation as never was nor will ever be Nor was Israel hiding in the wilderness for 3 1/2 yrs Rev 12:1-6. The woman represent Israel from Jacobs dream Gen 37:9-10 as Israel's time in the wilderness is again prophesied in Ezekiel 20:33-38
 
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1still_waters

Guest
Sorry Bro but the sun and moon didn't turn dark nor did the stars of heaven fall in 70 A.D. (immediately after the tribulation) Nor did Christ return to destroy those performing great signs and wonders nor did man posses the capability to end human existance Matt 24:22-30 nor was it a time of tribulation as never was nor will ever be Nor was Israel hiding in the wilderness for 3 1/2 yrs Rev 12:1-6. The woman represent Israel from Jacobs dream Gen 37:9-10 as Israel's time in the wilderness is again prophesied in Ezekiel 20:33-38
That's prophetic language for coming judgement. It's not about literal stars falling from the sky.
 
J

Jacob12

Guest
Like I stated already 2nd Peter 1:20 "no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation". the earth is what God referred to in Gen 1:10. the bible doesn't speak of another earth
 
J

Jacob12

Guest
it say the city (kingdom, New Jerusalem) will come down from heaven and be with men.
pretty clear cut
 
J

Jacob12

Guest
Dan 2 32-35 Says that after this stone smites the image (4 kingdoms) on the foot (the fouth kingdom, our time) it filled the whole earth. The bible is very consistent about this Kingdom on Earth thing, if u skip down to 44-45 u see that this stone is the kingdom of God