Contextual study

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Dec 18, 2023
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#41
I do.. but the fact remains the context leading up to Hebrews 6 is of believers who are being admonished to go on to maturity. So whether Hebrew or Jew.. they were babes in Christ.
I believe hebrews 5 especially the end part is clearly addressing new converts to Christ 😊

I also believe that where people make an error in reading, is the beginning of Hebrews 6 is addressing hardened Judaism, who have tasted the fruits also.
 
Dec 18, 2023
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#43
In a "nut shell", Hebrew identifies with Nationality. Jew identifies with the religion.
lol the Jews descended from the Jacob the Israelites.

But the hebrews descended from Abraham 😊 the hebrews remained hebrews in my opinion. The hebrews are the patriarchs of the Jews.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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#44
The contextual study, also known as Expository, starts with the text, stays with the text , and ends with the text.

One must seek what is known as "Authorial intent."

Meaning of the text in context by asking

  • who was the Author writing to
  • what was the time frame in which he wrote it
  • how did they apply then
  • how do we apply now
Prayer is paramount. A study is needed. a proper exegesis of the text by looking at:

  • the verse
  • sentence
  • paragraph
  • Chapter
  • Book and
  • the Whole Bible
 
Dec 18, 2023
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#45
In a "nut shell", Hebrew identifies with Nationality. Jew identifies with the religion.
Through out the bible The Jews (the Israelites) where bringing the first fruits of there labour as an offering for forgiveness of sins to the lord, to the hebrew high priests in the tabernacle, obviously they where also tasting the first first fruits when they where forgiven for there sins, after bringing there first fruits.

At the beginning of Hebrews 6, they where being preached against, for still practicing these rituals now deemed as being no point anymore.

Then we read it is impossible for those who have tasted the first fruits to be brought to repentance.


6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God
afresh, and put him to an open shame.


It's obviously speaking to the hardened Jews, the Israelites, who are falling away, because there not behaving like new converts in Christ, at the end of chapter 5.

They are simply falling away but not lost.
 

jamessb

Active member
Feb 10, 2024
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#47
In a "nut shell", Hebrew identifies with Nationality. Jew identifies with the religion.
This is not the case in the New Testament.

Matthew 27:37, "Above his head they placed the written charge against him: this is Jesus, the king of the Jews". Clearly not the king of the religion!

John 3:1, "Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council"

John 4:9, "The Samaritan woman said to him, “You are a Jew and I am a Samaritan woman. How can you ask me for a drink?” (For Jews do not associate with Samaritans.)" Clearly, nationality.

Romans 1:16, "For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile"

Romans 3:9, "What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin." (Jew and Gentile: different ethnicities)

Romans 10:12, "For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him"

1 Corinthians 1:22, "Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom" (Jew and Greek: different ethnicities)

1 Corinthians 12:13, "For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink." Ethnicity and social standing.

There are many more examples, but clearly the Jews are a distinct people, different from Gentiles, Samaritans, Greeks, etc.
 
Dec 18, 2023
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#50
BTW, I am a Jew (by the first birth) and a Christian (by the second birth).
The term Jew stems from the tribe of Judah,

People might of called the area judea,.or judha,

But a states called Judea has never actually existed

Palestinians call it the west bank

And Isreal people call it Isreal.

Whilst some Israelites might call it judea.

Its important to know that the hebrews split into tribes, and also the tribe of Judah.

But the hebrews have kept there identity and see themselves as. Hebrew not a Jew.

This really boils down to the tribe of judah multiplying and so the term Jew was used by many people,.as they settled.in that area, and so became known as Jews, this was also for a long period, and mainly only the tribe of Judah kept the faith alive as Isreal was captured, so this is also why the faith was labelled Judaism. But it really is the faith of hebrews. Who where in charge of the judeans, the Jews just took it over, as they they like to take things over



So whilst people can call themselves a Jew if born in that area, where the tribe of Judah settled. This is the only reason for the term Jew.

But theese Jews started worshiping baal.

It's also should be noted that the hebrews also split into the Edomites, and God told the Israelites not to step one foot on there land.

So the only way you can call yourself jew is if you born in Isreal a long time ago when Judea was the the only prominent tribe left, in a place that was labelled judea or judha.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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#51
Hebrews is preached by priests (hebrews who where saved)

They where preaching against useless rituals, like animal sacrifice.

The hebrews high priests where talking amongst each other about the Jews, in hebrews 6, who where going back to to useless rituals.

You do understand this,. I take it.
Not all of these Hebrews were saved. There were saved and non-saved Hebrews mixed together. In Hebrews 6:7-8, we read - For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; but if it bears thorns and briars, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.

In this metaphor relating to agriculture, those who receive final judgment are compared to land that bears no vegetation or useful fruit, but rather bears thorns and thistles. We see in scripture where good fruit is the evidence of spiritual life and a lack of good fruit is a sign of false believers (Matthew 3:8-10; 7:15-20; 12:33-35) so we have an indication that the trustworthy evidence of one's spiritual condition is the fruit they bear (whether good or bad), suggesting that those who fell away in Hebrews 6 were not genuine believers.

*Verse 9 sums it up for me. The writer is speaking to those truly saved (refers to them as BELOVED). He says that even though he speaks like this concerning THOSE types of people, He is convinced of better things concerning YOU. Things that ACCOMPANY SALVATION. Thorns and briars and falling away permanently do not accompany salvation and are not fruits worthy of authentic repentance.

Elsewhere in the book of Hebrews 4:1-2, we read - For indeed the gospel was preached to US as well as to THEM; but the word which THEY heard did not profit THEM, not being mixed with faith in THOSE who heard it.

For WE who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: "So I swore in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest," although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Obviously, not all of these Hebrews were genuine believers. *Notice that verses 2-3 makes a distinction between US who have BELIEVED and do enter that rest and THEM who heard the word but did not mix faith with what they heard and will not enter that rest because of UNBELIEF.

Also, in Hebrews 10:39, we read - But WE are not OF THOSE who draw back to perdition, but OF THOSE who believe to the saving of the soul. Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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#52
I believe faith without works is dead, because your faith becomes dead works, if you don't practice what you preach.

But I'm sure it doesn't mean you faith is dead completely, it just means your faith has become dead works and needs restoring.
In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine.

Faith that produces no works at all demonstrates that it's dead. Something that is dead cannot produce anything. Faith must be made alive in Christ first and then good works follow. (Ephesians 2:5-10)
 
Dec 18, 2023
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#53
Not all of these Hebrews were saved. There were saved and non-saved Hebrews mixed together. In Hebrews 6:7-8, we read - For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; but if it bears thorns and briars, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.

In this metaphor relating to agriculture, those who receive final judgment are compared to land that bears no vegetation or useful fruit, but rather bears thorns and thistles. We see in scripture where good fruit is the evidence of spiritual life and a lack of good fruit is a sign of false believers (Matthew 3:8-10; 7:15-20; 12:33-35) so we have an indication that the trustworthy evidence of one's spiritual condition is the fruit they bear (whether good or bad), suggesting that those who fell away in Hebrews 6 were not genuine believers.

*Verse 9 sums it up for me. The writer is speaking to those truly saved (refers to them as BELOVED). He says that even though he speaks like this concerning THOSE types of people, He is convinced of better things concerning YOU. Things that ACCOMPANY SALVATION. Thorns and briars and falling away permanently do not accompany salvation and are not fruits worthy of authentic repentance.

Elsewhere in the book of Hebrews 4:1-2, we read - For indeed the gospel was preached to US as well as to THEM; but the word which THEY heard did not profit THEM, not being mixed with faith in THOSE who heard it.

For WE who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: "So I swore in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest," although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Obviously, not all of these Hebrews were genuine believers. *Notice that verses 2-3 makes a distinction between US who have BELIEVED and do enter that rest and THEM who heard the word but did not mix faith with what they heard and will not enter that rest because of UNBELIEF.

Also, in Hebrews 10:39, we read - But WE are not OF THOSE who draw back to perdition, but OF THOSE who believe to the saving of the soul. Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition.
all good brother, we need to establish exactly what a Jew is and what a Hebrew is.

The term Hebrew was first used in a land away from the land of Canaan, which was to become Isreal.

There is no clear indication exactly how many people Joined the hebrews and from which land.

There is this concerning foreigners to joining the faith and how they joined


Isaiah 56:6-7

New International Version



6 And foreigners who bind themselves to the Lord
to minister to him,
to love the name of the Lord,
and to be his servants,
all who keep the Sabbath without desecrating it
and who hold fast to my covenant—
7 these I will bring to my holy mountain
and give them joy in my house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and sacrifices
will be accepted on my altar;
for my house will be called
a house of prayer for all nations.”

Then brother The word Jew or Jude or Judean, only originated after the tribe of Judah.
 
Dec 18, 2023
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#54
In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine.

Faith that produces no works at all demonstrates that it's dead. Something that is dead cannot produce anything. Faith must be made alive in Christ first and then good works follow. (Ephesians 2:5-10)
all Good again brother.

The term faith without works is dead, must not be seen as you never had faith in the first place if there is no works being produced.


Heres why brother


Psalms 51:12



12 Restore to me the joy of your salvation and grant me a willing spirit, to sustain me.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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#55
all good brother, we need to establish exactly what a Jew is and what a Hebrew is.

The term Hebrew was first used in a land away from the land of Canaan, which was to become Isreal.

There is no clear indication exactly how many people Joined the hebrews and from which land.

There is this concerning foreigners to joining the faith and how they joined

Isaiah 56:6-7

New International Version

6 And foreigners who bind themselves to the Lord
to minister to him,
to love the name of the Lord,
and to be his servants,
all who keep the Sabbath without desecrating it
and who hold fast to my covenant—
7 these I will bring to my holy mountain
and give them joy in my house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and sacrifices
will be accepted on my altar;
for my house will be called
a house of prayer for all nations.”

Then brother The word Jew or Jude or Judean, only originated after the tribe of Judah.
In regard to Isaiah 56:2-7, foreigners were to "join themselves to the Lord;" and "love the name of the Lord;" and "be his servants;" and "take hold of God's covenant." The old covenant. But to do this they had to be circumcised, for God said: “No foreigner uncircumcised in heart and uncircumcised in flesh, of all the foreigners who are among the sons of Israel, shall enter My sanctuary." (Ezekiel 44:9) When these strangers "joined themselves to the Lord" they became proselytes.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,491
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#56
all Good again brother.

The term faith without works is dead, must not be seen as you never had faith in the first place if there is no works being produced.

Heres why brother

Psalms 51:12

12 Restore to me the joy of your salvation and grant me a willing spirit, to sustain me.
The key word in James 2:14 is says/claims to have faith..
 
Dec 18, 2023
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#57
The key word in James 2:14 is says/claims to have faith..
The key words are here also brother.


2 Chronicles 7:14



14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.

Notice it says my people, which also means my faith.

Which should mean now there faith is becoming dead works.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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#58
The key words are here also brother.

2 Chronicles 7:14

14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.

Notice it says my people, which also means my faith.

Which should mean now there faith is becoming dead works.
In context they were the Israelites.

James goes on to say in verse 14 can that faith save them? The answer to that rhetorical question is no and James goes on further to describe this spurious faith.
 
Dec 18, 2023
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#59
In context they were the Israelites.

James goes on to say in verse 14 can that faith save them? The answer to that rhetorical question is no and James goes on further to describe this spurious faith.
What I'm suggestion brother is not whether there faith saves them, or not what whether there works saves.

I'm asking whether faith can become dead works that needs restoring.

I'm not saying faith has become dead altogether I'm saying there faith without works is dead is an expression not an ultimatum because of this

2 Chronicles 7:14

14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.
 

jamessb

Active member
Feb 10, 2024
738
122
43
Santa Fe NM
#60
Not all of these Hebrews were saved. There were saved and non-saved Hebrews mixed together. In Hebrews 6:7-8, we read - For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; but if it bears thorns and briars, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.

In this metaphor relating to agriculture, those who receive final judgment are compared to land that bears no vegetation or useful fruit, but rather bears thorns and thistles. We see in scripture where good fruit is the evidence of spiritual life and a lack of good fruit is a sign of false believers (Matthew 3:8-10; 7:15-20; 12:33-35) so we have an indication that the trustworthy evidence of one's spiritual condition is the fruit they bear (whether good or bad), suggesting that those who fell away in Hebrews 6 were not genuine believers.

*Verse 9 sums it up for me. The writer is speaking to those truly saved (refers to them as BELOVED). He says that even though he speaks like this concerning THOSE types of people, He is convinced of better things concerning YOU. Things that ACCOMPANY SALVATION. Thorns and briars and falling away permanently do not accompany salvation and are not fruits worthy of authentic repentance.

Elsewhere in the book of Hebrews 4:1-2, we read - For indeed the gospel was preached to US as well as to THEM; but the word which THEY heard did not profit THEM, not being mixed with faith in THOSE who heard it.

For WE who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: "So I swore in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest," although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Obviously, not all of these Hebrews were genuine believers. *Notice that verses 2-3 makes a distinction between US who have BELIEVED and do enter that rest and THEM who heard the word but did not mix faith with what they heard and will not enter that rest because of UNBELIEF.

Also, in Hebrews 10:39, we read - But WE are not OF THOSE who draw back to perdition, but OF THOSE who believe to the saving of the soul. Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition.
This applies to everyone, including Donald Trump!
 
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