Predestination is misunderstood...

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
2,432
264
83
A pilgrim is a traveler with a mission. ( generally a religious mission, of God's calling.

And don't try to lecture me about my character, and then give me advice.

I get along with people in the real world, and none of my friends are cowards Like you. 😊
Wow! You self-awareness level must down around zero (if not in the negative zone), in order for you to call anyone here a "coward". I guess in your little world a genuine hero doesn't answer tough questions, right? :rolleyes:
 
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
Wow! You self-awareness level must down around zero (if not in the negative zone), in order for you to call anyone here a "coward". I guess in your little world a genuine hero doesn't answer tough questions, right? :rolleyes:
your also a coward 😊
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,193
6,607
113
62
do you mean God's grace is evident to all,.or evident in all 🤔
Perhaps both depending upon how you understand in. It is certainly evidenced by all whether they ascribe it to God or not.
If by in you mean is an example, then yes. The fact that all are alive and breathing, each individual is an example of the grace of God. If by in you mean existing in all, then no. Not all are operating as a result of the grace of God.
 

tylerbones1313

Active member
May 1, 2022
565
156
43
do you mean God's grace is evident to all,.or evident in all 🤔
Grace only evident IN US when we through faith we accept it. Otherwise we live in a state of separation from God.

Romans 3:23 states, "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." This verse acknowledges the universality of human sinfulness and our inherent inability to reach God's perfect standard on our own.

Everyone, regardless of their choices, exists in a state of separation from God due to sin. However, this doesn't necessarily equate to a state of complete darkness or depravity. God's inherent goodness and love are still evident in the world, even if not fully acknowledged by everyone.

Ephesians 2:8-9 declares, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not of works, lest any man should boast." This passage emphasizes that salvation (being reconciled to God) is a gift received by faith, not earned through good works.

Grace is God's initiative, reaching out to humanity despite our sinfulness. By accepting this grace through faith, we experience its transforming power in our lives, leading us closer to God. However, the statement that one lives in complete "darkness and depravity" without accepting grace requires careful consideration. While separated from God due to sin, individuals can still exhibit acts of kindness, compassion, and love, even without explicitly acknowledging God's grace.

2 Corinthians 5:17 describes the work of grace: "Therefore, if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."

When we accept God's grace, it doesn't just offer forgiveness; it starts a process of transformation within us. We begin to see the world differently, our values and priorities shift, and we are empowered to live a life that reflects God's love. This transformation is a key way in which grace becomes "evident" in our lives.
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
2,432
264
83
your another coward 😊
Perhaps being a "coward" on a forum isn't so bad after all, since the delusional "hero" on this one can't spell to swell -- never knowing the difference between "your" and "you're", while simultaneously believing he has earned credibility with everything he says. :coffee:
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,193
6,607
113
62
Perhaps being a "coward" on a forum isn't so bad after all, since the delusional "hero" on this one can't spell to swell -- never knowing the difference between "your" and "you're", while simultaneously believing he has earned credibility with everything he says. :coffee:
Too swell.
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
2,432
264
83
grace -- cf. Tit_2:11 Salvation is by the "grace" of God (cf. Eph_1:3-14). The character of God is revealed through His mercy (cf. Eph_2:4-6). Grace is best defined as the unmerited, undeserved love of God. It flows from God's nature through Christ and is irrespective of the worth or merit of the one loved. (BN)
"Grace" charis is feminine,
"Faith" pistis is feminine
"that" touto is neuter.
I'm curious: From where do you get gender information? I have several dictionaries and lexicons and in none of them is the gender of a word given. What is "BN" at the end of the definition? Do you get this info from Blue Letter Bible?
 

Johann

Active member
Apr 12, 2022
928
212
43
I'm curious: From where do you get gender information? I have several dictionaries and lexicons and in none of them is the gender of a word given. What is "BN" at the end of the definition? Do you get this info from Blue Letter Bible?
Look carefully=

Eph 2:8 Τῇ Tē|G3588|Art-DFS|- γὰρ gar|G1063|Conj|For χάριτί chariti|G5485|N-DFS|by grace ἐστε este|G1510|V-PIA-2P|you are σεσῳσμένοι sesōsmenoi|G4982|V-RPM/P-NMP|saved διὰ dia|G1223|Prep|through πίστεως· pisteōs|G4102|N-GFS|faith, καὶ kai|G2532|Conj|and τοῦτο touto|G3778|DPro-NNS|this οὐκ ouk|G3756|Adv|not ἐξ ex|G1537|Prep|of ὑμῶν, hymōn|G4771|PPro-G2P|yourselves; Θεοῦ Theou|G2316|N-GMS|[it is] of God τὸ to|G3588|Art-NNS|the δῶρον· dōron|G1435|N-NNS|gift,

Grace-- Noun - Dative Feminine Singular
you are σεσῳσμένοι sesōsmenoi|G4982|V-RPM/P-NMP|saved


N-GFS|faith--Noun - Genitive Feminine Singular

τοῦτο touto|G3778|DPro-NNS--Demonstrative Pronoun - Nominative Neuter Singular

Theou|G2316|N-GMS|[it is] of God==Noun - Genitive Masculine Singular--

No- I don't have to use online sources-But I guess Blue Letter Bible can parse the Grammars and Morphology such as these highlighted in red-now you have to find out what a Genitive-Nominative-and Dative means is.

Reason why most here are falling short is that they don't want to read secondary source or "exegetical stuff"-nor the Grammars or Syntax as it is in the TR-or Hebrew, for that matter.

There is ONE member-that I know of that study this way-@Genez
Shalom
J.
 

Johann

Active member
Apr 12, 2022
928
212
43
Look carefully=

Eph 2:8 Τῇ Tē|G3588|Art-DFS|- γὰρ gar|G1063|Conj|For χάριτί chariti|G5485|N-DFS|by grace ἐστε este|G1510|V-PIA-2P|you are σεσῳσμένοι sesōsmenoi|G4982|V-RPM/P-NMP|saved διὰ dia|G1223|Prep|through πίστεως· pisteōs|G4102|N-GFS|faith, καὶ kai|G2532|Conj|and τοῦτο touto|G3778|DPro-NNS|this οὐκ ouk|G3756|Adv|not ἐξ ex|G1537|Prep|of ὑμῶν, hymōn|G4771|PPro-G2P|yourselves; Θεοῦ Theou|G2316|N-GMS|[it is] of God τὸ to|G3588|Art-NNS|the δῶρον· dōron|G1435|N-NNS|gift,

Grace-- Noun - Dative Feminine Singular
you are σεσῳσμένοι sesōsmenoi|G4982|V-RPM/P-NMP|saved


N-GFS|faith--Noun - Genitive Feminine Singular

τοῦτο touto|G3778|DPro-NNS--Demonstrative Pronoun - Nominative Neuter Singular

Theou|G2316|N-GMS|[it is] of God==Noun - Genitive Masculine Singular--

No- I don't have to use online sources-But I guess Blue Letter Bible can parse the Grammars and Morphology such as these highlighted in red-now you have to find out what a Genitive-Nominative-and Dative means is.

Reason why most here are falling short is that they don't want to read secondary source or "exegetical stuff"-nor the Grammars or Syntax as it is in the TR-or Hebrew, for that matter.

There is ONE member-that I know of that study this way-@Genez
Shalom
J.
Everyone knows that exercise is necessary for our health. The fitness industry is a multi-billion dollar industry.


Do you spend more time researching the best equipment to buy than you do actually using it?


Do you spend money on gym memberships and workout tools only to have them sit on the shelf unused?


That this is beginning to sound like an infomercial proves the common problem: people want to know what’s right more than they actually do what’s right. Doing takes work.


The same problem exists in ministry. Doing ministry work is spiritual exercise. You know you should do it, but never quite get around to it.

You spend hours getting the right doctrine and tools only to leave them unused.


Knowing right doctrine is not the same as exercising it. You have the right equipment, but you are not using it.


Ministry is you putting what you know and believe to practice. It exercises your faith, and it will strengthen your faith the more you do it.



When you get the doctrine right, start working it out by doing God’s will in some way.


“Without works” should describe your salvation, not your ministry.


The next step in your spiritual growth after learning what is right is to put it to work (2 Tim 2:15).

For Truth,

Justin "workout" Johnson
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
5,941
1,872
113
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
Look in the mirror my friend

As for insulting someone, Yes, the truth hurts. To those it hurt. I can see it coming across as an insult

I will not apologize for speaking truth

Now back on ignore..
In the kjv this scripture is addressed to everyone and not aimed at singling people out.


Matthew 6:14-15

King James Version



14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.


Quite clearly Gods grace is given because he's kind, not because he gives his grace as an unmerited favor.

And quite clearly Grace must be present in the person, to whom have been saved By Grace.

So quite clearly the only way a person is saved by Grace is if they have grace.

And quite clearly Grace is a seed that flourishes from a mercy seed.

If your mercy seed doesn't flourish then you will have no grace.


Titus 2:11-14

New International Version



11 For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. 12 It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, 13 while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.

God's salvation (grace) says ye will live upright, ye will have no ungodliness.

Ye will have self control.


Well if ye don't have theese thing ye have no grace.

As we see Here Gods grace has appeared to all, but not will have it.


So there for he will call all to believe and to be baptised to be saved, to enter into his grace, and his new covenant

He will also call all by speaking to people's heart, that would be his mercy seed.

If the mercy seed does not start to forgive then ye will have no grace.
 
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
Look in the mirror my friend

As for insulting someone, Yes, the truth hurts. To those it hurt. I can see it coming across as an insult

I will not apologize for speaking truth

Now back on ignore..
In
the kjv this scripture is addressed to everyone and not aimed at singling people out.


Matthew 6:14-15

King James Version



14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.


Quite clearly Gods grace is given because he's kind, not because he gives his grace as an unmerited favor.

And quite clearly Grace must be present in the person, to whom have been saved By Grace.

So quite clearly the only way a person is saved by Grace is if they have grace.

And quite clearly Grace is a seed that flourishes from a mercy seed.

If your mercy seed doesn't flourish then you will have no grace.


Titus 2:11-14

New International Version



11 For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. 12 It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, 13 while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.

God's salvation (grace) says ye will live upright, ye will have no ungodliness.

Ye will have self control.


Well if ye don't have theese thing ye have no grace.

As we see Here Gods grace has appeared to all, but not all will have it.


So there for he will call all to believe and to be baptised to be saved, to enter into his grace, and his new covenant

He will also call all by speaking to people's heart, that would be his mercy seed.

If the mercy seed does not start to forgive then ye will have no grace.

The word ye means all.

And only the remnant will be saved.

So God's grace will ignore those who will not be apart of the remnant 😊