The Torah is Still Binding and We Must Obey It

[Soyeong]

FAIL!

“Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do EVERYTHING written in the Book of the Law.”“ ‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3‬:‭10‬.

According to that verse, the only way to avoid being cursed is by continuing to do everything in the Book of the Law, so you should hold the position that we should continue to do everything in the Book of the Law rather than the position that we should be cursed by not continuing to do that.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Maybe we should go back to arranged marriages.

from "several research groups"
In the United States, while the divorce rate hovers around 40 or 50 percent, the divorce rate for arranged marriages is 4 percent.
Nov 2, 2023

 

[Soyeong]

Cop out.

Clearly you are unable to discern between a legitimate reason and an illegitimate reason for not obeying a particular law.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

What time is dinner? I’ll bring the mint, cumin, and dill. 😜

5 ish?? BTW how do you cook a goat?

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Maybe we should go back to arranged marriages.

from "several research groups"
In the United States, while the divorce rate hovers around 40 or 50 percent, the divorce rate for arranged marriages is 4 percent.
Nov 2, 2023

Already hitched,it's too late. Hubby and I are twice married. Because of the US citizen status at the time we had to get married in TN, then do the church wedding in our home state. I told hubby no divorce in this household, not after all that bother, you're twice married to me, deal with it!

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Already hitched,it's too late. Hubby and I are twice married. Because of the US citizen status at the time we had to get married in TN, then do the church wedding in our home state. I told hubby no divorce in this household, not after all that bother, you're twice married to me, deal with it!

That's a wonderful Testimony

 

[Soyeong]

Anyone who understands why Jesus came and what He accomplished knows you're the one in the wrong.

In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and the Mosaic Law was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel message. Furthermore, Jesus set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law and we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22) and that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked, so Jesus spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey the Mosaic Law by word and by example. Moreover, in Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Mosaic Law is the way to believe in everything that Jesus accomplished through his ministry and through the cross (Acts 21:20) while return to the lawlessness that he gave himself to redeem us from is the way to reject everything he accomplished.

We are no longer under the law. Period.

While I agree that we are no longer under the law, Paul described the law that we are no longer under as being a law where sin had dominion over us, which does not describe the Mosaic Law, which is a law where holiness, righteousness, and goodness have dominion over us (Romans 7:12), but rather it is the law of sin where sin had dominion over us. In Romans 7, Paul said that the Mosaic Law is good and that he wanted to do good and that he delighted in obeying it, but contrasted that with the law of sin that was working within his members to cause him not to do the good that he wanted to do, so what he said against being under the law of sin should not be mistaken as speaking against being under the Mosaic Law. Moreover, in Romans 6:15, being under grace does not mean that we are permitted to sin, and in Romans 3:20, it is by the Mosaic Law that we have knowledge of what sin is, so we are still under the Mosaic Law, but are not under the law of sin. We need to die to the law of sin in order to be free to obey the Law of Moses, not the other way around.

 

[Magenta]

According to that verse, the only way to avoid being cursed is by continuing to do everything in the Book of the Law, so you should hold the position that we should continue to do everything in the Book of the Law rather than the position that we should be cursed by not continuing to do that.

Highlighting once again how ridiculous your position is that we should uphold/continue to do the whole of the law while admitting at the same time that it is impossible to do so.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

If we SIN, and all sins have been defined under the Law, is it ok to say according to the definition of sins in the Law my sin fits that category?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Way to contradict yourself!

It’s like the twilight zone but then again hasnt it always been the thing ? Also however the issue was raised early on and answered by the apostles of the lord who were all former Jews and born under the law

“But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses. And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. (This is what a few people insist on here obedience to Moses law including circumcision )

And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. ( not the law the word of the gospel )

And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; and put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? ( why insist upon others keeping a law that we’ve never been able to keep when Gods already accepted them by faith in Christ ?)

But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we ( Jew ) shall be saved, even as they. ( gentile )

Wherefore my ( James ) sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren: and they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia: forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭15:5-11, 19, 22-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That sort of should be how the church thinks when someone insists upon keeping the law of Moses it’s understandable the Pharisees we’re strict keepers of the law of Moses and trusted fully in the law keeping so much so acrually that they labeled Jesus a heretic and Blasphemer by thier law and constantly tried to accuse him with it who is it again that accuses people constantly ?

“Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee. For I know thy rebellion, and thy stiff neck: behold, while I am yet alive with you this day, ye have been rebellious against the LORD; and how much more after my death?”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭31:26-27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Why would a free man whose chains were shattered by a powerful hero who also tore the food or thoer prison cell from its hinges and shouted “you are free at last follow me !!!”

Why would they then, bring a list of the prison rules along with them insisting everyone follow the prison rules because the guards will get them ? Why bring the prison rules on thier free journey following thier lord and savior who delivered then from bondage ?mand promised to lead they in truth and righteousness forever ?

it seems only because they never knew they were imprisoned and that thier chains were broken and they were declared free by the governor

“But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:17-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He had cometo fulfil the prophecies in the law and prophets

“And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:44‬ ‭

He had to preach the gospel die and be raised up to life and scene to heavens throne before the law could change ….the priesthood had to change which happened when Jesus entered heaven after his resurrection in glory

“If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭7:11-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

sin the law and prophets theres the gospel that’s foretold “ a virgin will conceive have a son call his name Immanuel ….he shall preach the gospel to the poor he will speak all my judgements and I will make an everlasting covenant with you hesr me when I come my salvation is in its way he was bruised fornthier iniquity the chastisement of thier peace was upon him by his wounds we are healed ….ect

all that was foretold of the messiah the son of God coming into the world had to be fulfilled the entire gospel is in prophecy all we need is Jesus and the gospel

 

[Magenta]

In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Torah is the way to come under the grace of God and to believe in the finished work of Christ while returning to the lawlessness that he gave himself to redeem us from is the way to nullify the grace of God and the finished work of Christ.

Jesus Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law so that by FAITH we would be heirs.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

If we SIN, and all sins have been defined under the Law, is it ok to say according to the definition of sins in the Law my sin fits that category?

The law is always useful to Christian’s for learning it just isn’t thier law it’s always going to tell us what sin is “ murder will always be sin , theft will always be sin , lies always will be sin ect

when we hear the gospel Jesus is teaching us what righteousness is

“thou shalt not” can’t save sinners calling then to repentance and teaching then the right ways can save them

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Jesus Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law so that by FAITH we would be heirs.

He redeemed Moses too 🙂 showing the superiority and supremacy of his covenant word the resurrection and life

 

[Magenta]

Maybe we should go back to arranged marriages.

from "several research groups"
In the United States, while the divorce rate hovers around 40 or 50 percent, the divorce rate for arranged marriages is 4 percent.
Nov 2, 2023

I wonder what the murder rate is for women who refuse to comply to such arranged marriages.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

The law is always useful to Christian’s for learning it just isn’t thier law it’s always going to tell us what sin is “ murder will always be sin , theft will always be sin , lies always will be sin ect

when we hear the gospel Jesus is teaching us what righteousness is

“thou shalt not” can’t save sinners calling then to repentance and teaching then the right ways can save them

I agree but when we sin, that sin's original definition comes from the Law. So when we sin, the Law defines it is a sin we committed. So each time we sin, the Law is there saying this is what you just did. And why the Apostle John in 1 John told us to to be faithful to confess our sins to be forgiven. Even Jesus tells us that if we say the Prayer Jesus taught us to pray (forgive us of our sins as we forgive those who have sinned against us).

 

[jamessb]

It makes me very sad that anyone who claims to be a Christian doesn't understand that the sacrifice of the Savior fulfilled all the requirements of the OT law.

The Bible clearly states "But now we have been released from the law, because we have died to what controlled us, so that we may serve in the new life of the Spirit and not under the old written code." Romans 7:6

I don't see how it can be any clearer than that!

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

I wonder what the murder rate is for women who refuse to comply to such arranged marriages.

Good question. I bet no one knows that.

 

[Dino246]

According to that verse, the only way to avoid being cursed is by continuing to do everything in the Book of the Law, so you should hold the position that we should continue to do everything in the Book of the Law rather than the position that we should be cursed by not continuing to do that.

Miss the point much?

 

[Soyeong]

You are clearly misinterpreting (at best) or not understanding (at worst).

To whom was Matthew's gospel written? Clearly, it was written to the Jewish people to give them understanding of their Messiah. It was not written to Christians! When He warned against relaxing the least part of it or teaching others to relax the least part of it, that was said before the new covenant was instituted.[/quote]
A Christian is by definition a follower of Christ. So is it your position that the way to follow Christ is by refusing to follow what he taught in Matthew? In Matthew 28:16-20, Jesus commissioned his disciples to make disciples of all nations, teaching everything that he taught them, so that doesn't leave room for followers of Christ to refuse to follow what he taught in Matthew. Jesus didn't establish the New Covenant for the purpose of undermining anything that he spent his ministry teaching, but rather the New Covenant still involves following the Mosaic Law (Jeremiah 31:33).

Have you forgotten about Romans 6:14? To refresh your memory... "For sin will have no mastery over you, because you are not under law but under grace. "

The Mosaic Law is holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7:12), so it is the law where holiness, righteousness, and goodness have dominion over us, however, the law of sin stirs up sinful passions in order to bear fruit unto death, so it is the law where sin had dominion over us, and Romans 6:14 describes the law that we are not under as being the law where sin had dominion over us, so he was referring to the law of sin, not to the Law of Moses. In Romans 6:15, being under grace does not mean that we are permitted to sin, and in Romans 3:20, it is by the Mosaic Law that we have knowledge of what sin is, so we are still under the Mosaic Law, but are not under the law of sin. In Psalms 119:29, he wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Mosaic Law, so that is what it means to be under grace.

Moreover, everything else in Romans 6 speaks in favor of obedience to God and against sin. For example in Romans 6:16-23, we are slaves to the one whose we obey either of sin which leads to death or to obedience, which leads to righteousness, we have been set free from sin in order to become slaves of righteousness, we should no longer present ourselves as slave to impurity, lawlessness, and sin, but should now present ourselves as slaves to God and to righteousness leading to sanctification, and the goal of sanctification is eternal life in Christ, which is the gift of God. So to reject being under God's law is to reject the content of God's gift of eternal life in Christ.

Or Romans 7:6, "But now we have been released from the law, because we have died to what controlled us, so that we may serve in the new life of the Spirit and not under the old written code."

Again, Paul said that he wanted to do good, but spoke against the law of sin that was controlling him and causing him not to do the good that he wanted to do. In Romans 7:22-23, Paul delighted in obeying the Law of God, but contrasted that with the law of sin that held him captive, and Romans 7:6 says that we have been released from a law that held us captive, so he was referring to being released from the law of sin. We need to die to the law of sin in order to be free to obey the Law of God, not the other way around.

If, as a Christian, you put yourself under the OT law, YOU ARE DENYING CHRIST!

The Mosaic Law is God's word and Jesus is God's word made flesh, so why does it make sense to you to think that we are denying Christ by obeying God's word? Would it make more sense. to think that the way to deny Christ is by refusing to obey God's word? Christ set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law, so why does it make sense to you to think that the way to deny Christ is by following his example instead of by refusing to follow him?

 

[Soyeong]

You should open a waffle house. It might be more successful than your faulty attempts to get Christians to follow laws that were never meant for us in the first place. Laws that you erroneously claim were written on our hearts while also admitting that we are not able to follow them.

Psalms 1:1-2
Blessed is the man
who walks not in the counsel of the wicked,
nor stands in the way of sinners,
nor sits in the seat of scoffers;
2 but his delight is in the law of the Lord,
and on his law he meditates day and night.