Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR
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But God's grace and all his gifts that flow from that grace are EFFECTUAL! Therefore, since faith is a divine, effectual gift (Eph 2:8-9), then obedience (a/k/a faithfulness) flows from that one time gift. You don't believe this? Then read and weep over this New Covenant promise:
Ezek 36:27
27 "And I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.
NASB
In other words, God is promising that he will move the hearts of his NC people to obey him -- to be faithful to him. He does that! That
is his sovereign promise.
In fact, faithfulness is precisely how each of us perseveres in the [objective] FAITH and live sanctified lives unto God! Conversely, an unfaithful lifestyle is a sure sign of apostasy or spurious faith! (Read 1 John someday.)
And from whence does this faithfulness come? Well, as Mr. Bright pointed out, it comes from the Holy Spirit, for it is one of his fruits.
But knowing you, you're still doubting that faithfuless (the fruit) is also an effectual gift like its antecedent faith (the seed), aren't you? Do you think faithfulness is something about which anyone of us can boast?
Mark 13:22
22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible , even the elect.
KJV
Allow me to restate by paraphrase the above without changing the sense. People will come and try to deceive the elect (as though that were possible) but the elect will reamain faithful. They will not abandon their faith.
As I stated the other day, faith and faithfulness, while not precisely the same thing, are nonehtheless so inextricably entwined with each other, that they are inseparable; for Faith is the divinely planted seed that invariably results in Spirit-produced fruit of Faithfulness. Does scripture teach us that without obedience to God or faithfulness to him that it's impossible to please him? NO! It does not! And for good reason: It would be putting the cart before the horse! Rather, scripture teaches that without [antecedent] faith, it's impossible to please Him (Heb 11:6).
Thanks be to God that his gifts and calling are irrevocable (Rom 11:29)!
Ezek 36:27
27 "And I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.
NASB
In other words, God is promising that he will move the hearts of his NC people to obey him -- to be faithful to him. He does that! That
is his sovereign promise.
In fact, faithfulness is precisely how each of us perseveres in the [objective] FAITH and live sanctified lives unto God! Conversely, an unfaithful lifestyle is a sure sign of apostasy or spurious faith! (Read 1 John someday.)
And from whence does this faithfulness come? Well, as Mr. Bright pointed out, it comes from the Holy Spirit, for it is one of his fruits.
But knowing you, you're still doubting that faithfuless (the fruit) is also an effectual gift like its antecedent faith (the seed), aren't you? Do you think faithfulness is something about which anyone of us can boast?
Mark 13:22
22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible , even the elect.
KJV
Allow me to restate by paraphrase the above without changing the sense. People will come and try to deceive the elect (as though that were possible) but the elect will reamain faithful. They will not abandon their faith.
As I stated the other day, faith and faithfulness, while not precisely the same thing, are nonehtheless so inextricably entwined with each other, that they are inseparable; for Faith is the divinely planted seed that invariably results in Spirit-produced fruit of Faithfulness. Does scripture teach us that without obedience to God or faithfulness to him that it's impossible to please him? NO! It does not! And for good reason: It would be putting the cart before the horse! Rather, scripture teaches that without [antecedent] faith, it's impossible to please Him (Heb 11:6).
Thanks be to God that his gifts and calling are irrevocable (Rom 11:29)!
Paul said only the Jews cannot hear. So a Gentile will be able to fulfill this verse“In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.”
And
faith
πίστη
písti
faithfulness
πιστότητα
pistótita
will never mean the same thing ever!
And
faith
πίστη
písti
faithfulness
πιστότητα
pistótita
will never mean the same thing ever!
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My words and verses I use come from God that come to my mind when you present a question and your words match the Reformed doctrine, which is man made.
Do you know how I know?
I have a page with the Reformed doctrine and see you basically copy/pasting it and acting like you said it.
So I am debating and you're plagiarizing.
Do you know how I know?
I have a page with the Reformed doctrine and see you basically copy/pasting it and acting like you said it.
So I am debating and you're plagiarizing.
I'm not the one being rude. Sad that you are so astute in your limited ability to observe.
This is what I am dealing with:
Rufus said:
Quit flattering yourself. You don't know the first thing about debating! The best you have done, thus far, is confuse your pompous, arrognant, hostile, antognistic, condescening, shout-down attitude against opponensts with actual debating skills.
Interesting that you only notice me and not the ones using this type of language
You're not even remotely observant, are you?
Show me one Reformed point I have made?
This is what I am dealing with:
Rufus said:
Quit flattering yourself. You don't know the first thing about debating! The best you have done, thus far, is confuse your pompous, arrognant, hostile, antognistic, condescening, shout-down attitude against opponensts with actual debating skills.
Interesting that you only notice me and not the ones using this type of language
You're not even remotely observant, are you?
Show me one Reformed point I have made?
Stan_the_Man:
You clearly can see you were wrong
but I know you can never bring yourself to apologize.
That would be the godly way of doing things.
Don't worry, I forgive you.
but Go be someone else's judas.
You clearly can see you were wrong
but I know you can never bring yourself to apologize.
That would be the godly way of doing things.
Don't worry, I forgive you.
but Go be someone else's judas.
You said "I am hostile to those who manipulate the Bible for their own false doctrine"
Will you be amending your statement and using a different word other than HOSTILE ?
If not, why should we not take you at your word and expect you to be HOSTILE, since you specifically said you are going to be being HOSTILE
And just because others are hostile, does that mean it's all good and everyone can be hostile towards everyone?
You said "I have a page with the Reformed doctrine and see you basically copy/pasting it and acting like you said it"
Will you be amending your statement on this as well?
I was just going by what you posted, so if you amended your statements to make things more clear maybe that would be helpful.
Who is Steven speaking to?
The JEWS!
Romans 11
“God gave them a spirit of stupor,
eyes that would not see
and ears that would not hear,
down to this very day.”
I am hostile to those who manipulate the Bible for their own false doctrine.
Don't like it then stop trying to manipulate the Bible.[/QUOTE]
Like I didn't know that!? Go back and reread my post in its context! I quoted that Acts passage precisely because it was addressed specifically to Jews! (Good grief, man, learn to read!) The whole point behind me posting that was to show you that Israel, being largely an apostate nation, had their hearts hardened long ago -- long before Christ came.
Re your last paragraph: In other words, think and believe just like you do because you have it all together, don't you? Typical cop out response from people who are ill-equipped to answer tough questions, and equally ill-prepared to defend their position. An apologist for your non-Reformed views, you are not!
The JEWS!
Romans 11
“God gave them a spirit of stupor,
eyes that would not see
and ears that would not hear,
down to this very day.”
I am hostile to those who manipulate the Bible for their own false doctrine.
Don't like it then stop trying to manipulate the Bible.[/QUOTE]
Like I didn't know that!? Go back and reread my post in its context! I quoted that Acts passage precisely because it was addressed specifically to Jews! (Good grief, man, learn to read!) The whole point behind me posting that was to show you that Israel, being largely an apostate nation, had their hearts hardened long ago -- long before Christ came.
Re your last paragraph: In other words, think and believe just like you do because you have it all together, don't you?
Typical cop out response from people who are ill-equipped to answer tough questions, and equally ill-prepared to defend their position. An apologist for your non-Reformed views, you are not!
And I added what Paul wrote to show that same point
The Reformed people act like they have arrived, know it all, because they have their answers given to them.
I am a Student of God and always learning.
So I rely 100% upon God, not someone else's answers.
There's a big difference between the two.
I am also confidant because when God gives me an answer, I know it is more accurate than an already doctrine based answer.
Re your last paragraph: In other words, think and believe just like you do because you have it all together, don't you? Typical cop out response from people who are ill-equipped to answer tough questions, and equally ill-prepared to defend their position. An apologist for your non-Reformed views, you are not!
Typical cop out response from people who are ill-equipped to answer tough questions, and equally ill-prepared to defend their position. An apologist for your non-Reformed views, you are not!
I am a Student of God and always learning.
So I rely 100% upon God, not someone else's answers.
There's a big difference between the two.
I am also confidant because when God gives me an answer, I know it is more accurate than an already doctrine based answer.
Paul said, 25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
So the Jews currently have this condition
Romans 11
“God gave them a spirit of stupor,
eyes that would not see
and ears that would not hear,
down to this very day.”
And the Gentiles are currently under this condition
Romans 25
until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
So why would anyone think it's not possible for any Gentile to hear the Gospel and not be saved? The condition is ripe for them until the fullness happens.
So the Jews currently have this condition
Romans 11
“God gave them a spirit of stupor,
eyes that would not see
and ears that would not hear,
down to this very day.”
And the Gentiles are currently under this condition
Romans 25
until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
So why would anyone think it's not possible for any Gentile to hear the Gospel and not be saved? The condition is ripe for them until the fullness happens.