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Relying on our own understanding can be a slippery slope....that's why we have the word. I amusually one of the more liberal posters on this site, and normally I don't take hard and fast stances, preferring to see all possible angles. However, this is one point on which I cannot see how there can be much debate....the bible is pretty clear on the subject.
I am married, and it is NOT all roses all the time. And let me just say, if my husband ever laid a hand on me I'd be outta there so darn fast his head would spin! But, theres a difference between removing yourself from an abusive situation and divorce! It all comes down to what you believe human beings NEED - if you truly believe that people cannot survive without romantic relationships, particularly sexual ones, then of course you will say that it is necessary to divorce and marry again. I on the other hand dont believe that. I believe it is absolutely possible to remain MARRIED, and to pray and to fast and to seek the Lord while physically apart from your husband, working towards restoration and reunification with your husband at all times.
I can truly say that should my husband ever turn on me, I would leave, but I would never grant him a divorce nad I would NEVER give up on what God has installed in my life. My husband is a gift from the Lord, and my responsibility as a wife is to always strive towards the preservation and if necessary restoration of the union that God has blessed. You either believe Jesus or not. You either accept the Word or not. Yes, the rules are set perhaps a little stricter now. Yes perhaps the road is narrower than it was for the Jews.....hmmm perhaps maybe that's because we have NO excuses anymore!! WE have a personal relationship with God that doesn't need sacrifices on an altar because Jesus was that for us. The bible says that the way is narrow and those who find the gate are few...Noone said that it was ever going to be easy! But I know that God's plans would never go against His word, and His plans are ALWAYS the better road for me. I can have a fulfilling life without sex, without man/woman romance, and maybe sacrificing that I would have more time to give to God
Easy for me to say perhaps, but the Word is clear that divorce in any other case other than adultery is NOT His plan for us!!!! NO justification you can come up with will dispute His Word!
I'm not a liberal by any sense of the word but I have studied the meaning of the scriptures and it might surprise us, what we claim to be "pretty clear" on the subject usually isn't.
To consider the other side's views, let's look a closer at scripture again whether it is really talking about divorce here. Context and history of what Jesus is saying is very important. Many would say that marriage is for life and you can't divorce except in cases of adultery, and if you do remarry you commit adultery. That's one interpretation. But there is another, believe it or not.
When I read the bible on the passages claimed to say divorce, it says putting away. It doesn't say divorce. Why is that? Look up any reputable bible translation like KJV or ASV it doesnt say divorce it says put away.
Jesus said:
Mat 19:9 And I say to you, Whoever shall put away his wife, except for fornication, and shall marry another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is put away commits adultery.
Jesus is speaking about "putting away". Do we even know what that means? Maybe putting away is not the same as divorce? Perhaps Jesus was referring to the Pharisees putting away their wives without giving them a divorce notice?
Perhaps Jesus was addressing the way the Jewish men would put away their wives for any reason, even trivial reasons?
The reason it causes her to commit adultery, is because there was no proper divorce certificate. The man would simply "put away" his wife without giving her a proper divorce. This meant she was still legally married to her husband while he married someone else, or she married another.
Does the bible really say God hates divorce? Well no it doesn't really, it says He hates putting away:
Mal 2:16 For the LORD, the God of Israel, saith that he hateth putting away:
What does God hate? God hated the practice of sending away their wives without giving them a certificate of divorce, and then illegally marrying another. This also prevented the wife they separated from, from marrying another. It may have resulted in the wife being without rights in society, having to beg , or go into prostitution.
When God divorced Israel, God cut off the relationship properly. Note as it says below, first he put her away, and then he gave her a bill of divorce. If God hated divorce so much, why did God Himself divorce Israel? We know that God doesn't commit sin, yet it says that God gave her a bill of divorce..so divorce must not be as much of a sin as people claim it to be.
Jer 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.
If we take a look at Strong's, the word for divorce here means a cutting of the matrimonial bond. The word for puttng away literally means to send away. What should be obvious is that putting away (sending) is not the same as divorce (cutting). Putting away seems something less than divorce, maybe the start of divorce.
Three things were needed for a proper divorce, writing a bill of divorce, putting it into her hand, and sending her out of the house. Then it says she may be another man's wife.
Deu 24:1 When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favor in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.
Deu 24:2 And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife.
So those passages which most people say refer to divorce (cutting), do not say divorce, they actually say putting away (sending).
Maybe Jesus's teachings are not about divorce, but about the men putting away their wives without good cause. Regardless of our interpretation, Jesus's teachings here do not address the situation of an abusive husband, whether or not a woman can divorce. It seems to me to be all about men putting away their wives, which makes sense as He is talking to men (his disciples) afterall.
Now to consider why fornication is the one thing that is acceptable with putting away..
Mat 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
Firstly, note it says put away his wife, there is no mention of the bill of divorce, which is something else. Why is fornication the thing which is allowed? Because fornication means there was no proper marriage to begin with. In other words, she should simply be put away, and there is no need for a written bill of divorce since there is no legal marriage (since they were engaged in fornication).It could also be noted that this exception of fornication is not mentioned at all in Mark's gospel. If we were to take Mark's gospel at face value and ignore Matthew, Mark gives no grounds for divorce whatsoever, not even fornication.
I believe Christians are far too quick to make rules and regulations from misinterpreted passages. Even pastors don't understand these passages properly. In doing so, the legalism is even stricter than in Judaism i.e. "you can't divorce under any circumstances except adultery and if you do you commit adultery". Yet it says in Deu 24:2 that a divorced woman may marry another. Since when did Christianity replace the Law of Moses with an even stricter one? Aren't the Christians supposed to be living by grace and not under law? Yet in many instances I find the laws which christians live by and what preachers preach , to be far more strict than the Law of Moses. And no one can keep these christian laws on divorce anyway, considering the divorce rate amongst Christians is really no better than the rest of the world.
Think about this issue from the point of view of a God of grace, mercy and love. Why should a woman who through no fault of her own be subjected to abuse by her husband, pay the price for it the rest of her life by never being allowed to divorce or remarry. That doesn't sound fair to me. Instead, she is held at ransom for the rest of her life for the man which abused her. Then for the wife's ( or husbands) sake it is better that the husband (or wife) has an affair than to be abused.
Although marriage for life is God's intention as Jesus said, we don't live in a perfect world and sometimes divorce is the proper thing to be done, just as God divorced Israel after they had backslidden too far. And after divorce there should be no threat of being labelled an adulterer if a divorcee wishes to marry another.
I believe Jesus was making tighter rules however, about the way they went about divorce. I believe Jesus was really addressing the loose standards under Moses's time. He was saying "guys you can't divorce your wife for any reason you like, as you did under Moses". Under Moses the man could divorce his wife if he found something displeasing with her. Now he is telling them, God's intention is to be married for life.
However, I don't think Jesus was saying that properly divorced people if they remarry, commit adultery. He was not saying, that divorce is acceptable only after adultery, but no other situation (violence, abuse etc included). He was not addressing the situation of a woman in an abusive relationship, but was speaking to men (his disciples) about putting away their wives.
To consider the other side's views, let's look a closer at scripture again whether it is really talking about divorce here. Context and history of what Jesus is saying is very important. Many would say that marriage is for life and you can't divorce except in cases of adultery, and if you do remarry you commit adultery. That's one interpretation. But there is another, believe it or not.
When I read the bible on the passages claimed to say divorce, it says putting away. It doesn't say divorce. Why is that? Look up any reputable bible translation like KJV or ASV it doesnt say divorce it says put away.
Jesus said:
Mat 19:9 And I say to you, Whoever shall put away his wife, except for fornication, and shall marry another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is put away commits adultery.
Jesus is speaking about "putting away". Do we even know what that means? Maybe putting away is not the same as divorce? Perhaps Jesus was referring to the Pharisees putting away their wives without giving them a divorce notice?
Perhaps Jesus was addressing the way the Jewish men would put away their wives for any reason, even trivial reasons?
The reason it causes her to commit adultery, is because there was no proper divorce certificate. The man would simply "put away" his wife without giving her a proper divorce. This meant she was still legally married to her husband while he married someone else, or she married another.
Does the bible really say God hates divorce? Well no it doesn't really, it says He hates putting away:
Mal 2:16 For the LORD, the God of Israel, saith that he hateth putting away:
What does God hate? God hated the practice of sending away their wives without giving them a certificate of divorce, and then illegally marrying another. This also prevented the wife they separated from, from marrying another. It may have resulted in the wife being without rights in society, having to beg , or go into prostitution.
When God divorced Israel, God cut off the relationship properly. Note as it says below, first he put her away, and then he gave her a bill of divorce. If God hated divorce so much, why did God Himself divorce Israel? We know that God doesn't commit sin, yet it says that God gave her a bill of divorce..so divorce must not be as much of a sin as people claim it to be.
Jer 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.
If we take a look at Strong's, the word for divorce here means a cutting of the matrimonial bond. The word for puttng away literally means to send away. What should be obvious is that putting away (sending) is not the same as divorce (cutting). Putting away seems something less than divorce, maybe the start of divorce.
Three things were needed for a proper divorce, writing a bill of divorce, putting it into her hand, and sending her out of the house. Then it says she may be another man's wife.
Deu 24:1 When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favor in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.
Deu 24:2 And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife.
So those passages which most people say refer to divorce (cutting), do not say divorce, they actually say putting away (sending).
Maybe Jesus's teachings are not about divorce, but about the men putting away their wives without good cause. Regardless of our interpretation, Jesus's teachings here do not address the situation of an abusive husband, whether or not a woman can divorce. It seems to me to be all about men putting away their wives, which makes sense as He is talking to men (his disciples) afterall.
Now to consider why fornication is the one thing that is acceptable with putting away..
Mat 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
Firstly, note it says put away his wife, there is no mention of the bill of divorce, which is something else. Why is fornication the thing which is allowed? Because fornication means there was no proper marriage to begin with. In other words, she should simply be put away, and there is no need for a written bill of divorce since there is no legal marriage (since they were engaged in fornication).It could also be noted that this exception of fornication is not mentioned at all in Mark's gospel. If we were to take Mark's gospel at face value and ignore Matthew, Mark gives no grounds for divorce whatsoever, not even fornication.
I believe Christians are far too quick to make rules and regulations from misinterpreted passages. Even pastors don't understand these passages properly. In doing so, the legalism is even stricter than in Judaism i.e. "you can't divorce under any circumstances except adultery and if you do you commit adultery". Yet it says in Deu 24:2 that a divorced woman may marry another. Since when did Christianity replace the Law of Moses with an even stricter one? Aren't the Christians supposed to be living by grace and not under law? Yet in many instances I find the laws which christians live by and what preachers preach , to be far more strict than the Law of Moses. And no one can keep these christian laws on divorce anyway, considering the divorce rate amongst Christians is really no better than the rest of the world.
Think about this issue from the point of view of a God of grace, mercy and love. Why should a woman who through no fault of her own be subjected to abuse by her husband, pay the price for it the rest of her life by never being allowed to divorce or remarry. That doesn't sound fair to me. Instead, she is held at ransom for the rest of her life for the man which abused her. Then for the wife's ( or husbands) sake it is better that the husband (or wife) has an affair than to be abused.
Although marriage for life is God's intention as Jesus said, we don't live in a perfect world and sometimes divorce is the proper thing to be done, just as God divorced Israel after they had backslidden too far. And after divorce there should be no threat of being labelled an adulterer if a divorcee wishes to marry another.
I believe Jesus was making tighter rules however, about the way they went about divorce. I believe Jesus was really addressing the loose standards under Moses's time. He was saying "guys you can't divorce your wife for any reason you like, as you did under Moses". Under Moses the man could divorce his wife if he found something displeasing with her. Now he is telling them, God's intention is to be married for life.
However, I don't think Jesus was saying that properly divorced people if they remarry, commit adultery. He was not saying, that divorce is acceptable only after adultery, but no other situation (violence, abuse etc included). He was not addressing the situation of a woman in an abusive relationship, but was speaking to men (his disciples) about putting away their wives.
We also should consider the differences between divorce in ancient times and divorce in current times. In the bible all the power for divorce rested with the man. Women didn't really have rights. That's probably why Jesus spoke to his disciples about this issue and not their wives. And why unless the man wrote the bill of divorce himself, the wife couldn't just get divorced herself if she pleased.
Today though, either party can request divorce.
We should also note that it is fornication which was the grounds for separation in the bible, not adultery. This is because adultery carried the death penalty. Adulterers would be stoned I guess. So I think fornication is the proper word to use here.
Today though, either party can request divorce.
We should also note that it is fornication which was the grounds for separation in the bible, not adultery. This is because adultery carried the death penalty. Adulterers would be stoned I guess. So I think fornication is the proper word to use here.
I would pay good money just to hear one good sermon from a good pastor or church on this topic looking at what the bible really says (instead of the same old christian rhetoric). At least consider the different points of view before casting judgement. Maybe they are wrong. Maybe most of christianity in general has been wrong for hundreds of years on this issue of marriage and divorce. Maybe churches allowing divorce is not backsliding or apostasy, but returning to the truth, after hundreds of years of medieval-style religious institutions, which by the way, most of our protestant churches and practices are derived from.
We never should lose sight of redemption. When God sent His Son, He did it for two reasons. One, His justice must be satisfied and sin had to be judged. Two, now that sin would be judged through Christ, redemption must be made available to the sinner. The same one that was judged for sin and satisfied the justice of the Father is the same one that the sinner receives redemption through. God does not justify sin but He does justify the sinner through the blood of His Son and that goes for adultery as well as any other sin. The man who divorced and remarried committed adultery against his wife and the one he married committeth adultery also. The woman that received the divorce (whether she consented or not) is only bound by the law to her husband as long as he liveth, but if he be dead she is free to marry. The question is this. If the man marries another woman, does that constitute death according to the law so that the woman is free to marry? Or, is it referring to physical death only? If it is physical death only and the woman is the innocent party, she must remain unmarried until he dies. If she marries, while he is alive, she is an adulteress.
If this is true, than (Rom 7:4 & Gal 2:16-19) need to be explained in relationship to the law and to death. If the believer is not under the law but under grace (Rom 6:14,15), does that become a factor in any of this? Can the woman under grace be free to marry when her divorced husband has been married to another? The greater question for me is this. Can both parties, who have married another, whether innocent or guilty, be redeemed in their situation by grace? If I am a single person, who has never married and I am having relations with a woman of the same, I can stop living in fornication by getting married. I may have trouble in my marriage but it is no longer fornication. Not only does the law permit that but grace does also and that is part of God's redemption. The Prophet Hosea married a prostitute, she bare a son and then left for other lovers. Hosea found her and redeemed her for (30) pieces of silver and asked her not to play the harlot. She had become one flesh with many lovers but God had Hosea redeem her. King David knew the law and that he was not to multiply wives (Deut 17:14-20). He committed adultery with a married woman and had her husband killed by the sword. He took her as his wife, they lost the child and then bore David a son, Solomon. Was there no redemption provided by God for David and his wife Bathsheba? You can say there was trouble later on in the kingdom concerning their family but there was also trouble in Adam's family with Cain and Abel and on through to Lamech (Gen 4:16-24). God is in the business of redemption and that goes way beyond any curse of the law.
References: Mk 10:11,12, Mt 19:9, Rom 7:2,3, Lk 16:18, 1Cor 7:39
If this is true, than (Rom 7:4 & Gal 2:16-19) need to be explained in relationship to the law and to death. If the believer is not under the law but under grace (Rom 6:14,15), does that become a factor in any of this? Can the woman under grace be free to marry when her divorced husband has been married to another? The greater question for me is this. Can both parties, who have married another, whether innocent or guilty, be redeemed in their situation by grace? If I am a single person, who has never married and I am having relations with a woman of the same, I can stop living in fornication by getting married. I may have trouble in my marriage but it is no longer fornication. Not only does the law permit that but grace does also and that is part of God's redemption. The Prophet Hosea married a prostitute, she bare a son and then left for other lovers. Hosea found her and redeemed her for (30) pieces of silver and asked her not to play the harlot. She had become one flesh with many lovers but God had Hosea redeem her. King David knew the law and that he was not to multiply wives (Deut 17:14-20). He committed adultery with a married woman and had her husband killed by the sword. He took her as his wife, they lost the child and then bore David a son, Solomon. Was there no redemption provided by God for David and his wife Bathsheba? You can say there was trouble later on in the kingdom concerning their family but there was also trouble in Adam's family with Cain and Abel and on through to Lamech (Gen 4:16-24). God is in the business of redemption and that goes way beyond any curse of the law.
References: Mk 10:11,12, Mt 19:9, Rom 7:2,3, Lk 16:18, 1Cor 7:39
good point let me clear up that I, myself never meant to imply that any Christian that was divorced for the wrong reason and did remarry would be sent to hell. It is we are displeasing to God if we live in willful sin. maybe even lose some our our rewards when we get there, it hurts our testimonies
1co 3:11For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.1co 3:12Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;1co 3:13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.1co 3:14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.1co 3:15If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
I also know that works and sin are different before anyone wants to point that out. but sin can affect our works.
1co 3:11For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.1co 3:12Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;1co 3:13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.1co 3:14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.1co 3:15If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
I also know that works and sin are different before anyone wants to point that out. but sin can affect our works.
I will let you know where to send the Money HA HA!!!!
some would say that Jesus was referring to the old law/jewish law when He said Mt 5:32But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit ADULTERY: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth ADULTERY.
But this can't be for according to the old law:
in The Bible times when a jew was espoused or our term would be promised or engage to someone, according in those days one was considered as they were married. Now if Jesus was referring back to the Jewish law concerning engagement and married,. there would be no need to say Mt. 5:32 because the old law said
De 22:13If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her,De 22:14And give occasions of speech against her, and bring up an evil name upon her, and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid:De 22:15Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate:De 22:16And the damsel's father shall say unto the elders, I gave my daughter unto this man to wife, and he hateth her;De 22:17And, lo, he hath given occasions of speech against her, saying, I found not thy daughter a maid; and yet these are the tokens of my daughter's virginity. And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city.De 22:18And the elders of that city shall take that man and chastise him;De 22:19And they shall amerce him in an hundred shekels of silver, and give them unto the father of the damsel, because he hath brought up an evil name upon a virgin of Israel: and she shall be his wife; he may not put her away all his days.De 22:20But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel:De 22:21Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.
The only way a man could get out of a marriage under the old law, was if she had fornication before marriage, or she was not a virgin. however note that if her father and mother could prove to the elders of the city that she was a virgin. and apparently they used her wedding night sheets to prove this. so even if the man hated is new wife unless she was not a virgin( fornication) he hath brought up an evil name upon a virgin of Israel: and she shall be his wife; he may not put her away all his days. he must remain married to her, all the days of his life ( until death do them part). but look if there was fornication then the girl would not have a chance to remarry and commit adultery for she was stoned to death so the true meaning of the verse is exactly what the verse says:
Mt 5:32But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit ADULTERY: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth ADULTERY.
some would say that Jesus was referring to the old law/jewish law when He said Mt 5:32But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit ADULTERY: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth ADULTERY.
But this can't be for according to the old law:
in The Bible times when a jew was espoused or our term would be promised or engage to someone, according in those days one was considered as they were married. Now if Jesus was referring back to the Jewish law concerning engagement and married,. there would be no need to say Mt. 5:32 because the old law said
De 22:13If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her,De 22:14And give occasions of speech against her, and bring up an evil name upon her, and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid:De 22:15Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate:De 22:16And the damsel's father shall say unto the elders, I gave my daughter unto this man to wife, and he hateth her;De 22:17And, lo, he hath given occasions of speech against her, saying, I found not thy daughter a maid; and yet these are the tokens of my daughter's virginity. And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city.De 22:18And the elders of that city shall take that man and chastise him;De 22:19And they shall amerce him in an hundred shekels of silver, and give them unto the father of the damsel, because he hath brought up an evil name upon a virgin of Israel: and she shall be his wife; he may not put her away all his days.De 22:20But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel:De 22:21Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.
The only way a man could get out of a marriage under the old law, was if she had fornication before marriage, or she was not a virgin. however note that if her father and mother could prove to the elders of the city that she was a virgin. and apparently they used her wedding night sheets to prove this. so even if the man hated is new wife unless she was not a virgin( fornication) he hath brought up an evil name upon a virgin of Israel: and she shall be his wife; he may not put her away all his days. he must remain married to her, all the days of his life ( until death do them part). but look if there was fornication then the girl would not have a chance to remarry and commit adultery for she was stoned to death so the true meaning of the verse is exactly what the verse says:
Mt 5:32But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit ADULTERY: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth ADULTERY.
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