The Gospel According to John--"I Am The Bread of Life" (John 6:35)

[Pilgrimshope]

Amen.

We're on the same page brother, and Paul reinforces how important communion is within our Christian lives. Jesus says the bread "...is my body" and the wine "is the new testament in my blood." I think this is the heart and core of orthodox belief in the "real presence" of Jesus Christ in the bread and wine shared during the communion ceremony.

Jesus says the bread is (not figuratively represents) His body, and it ties back to Jesus' teaching that He is the bread of life (I've heard several sermons from credible pastors who dive into John chapter 6 when they are talking about communion). If Christ is present in the communion bread, then we are partaking of the Bread of Life. Of course, we partake of Jesus, the "Bread of Life" in many ways such as consuming His Word, fellowshipping with like-minded Christians about Jesus, and serving others as He did.

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-4‬ ‭

Paul's perspective of the baptism ceremony makes the most sense to me, too, and that's why I think full immersion into the watery grave best represents our burial with Jesus "by baptism into death." We rise out of the watery grave "born again" if you will with a new life in Jesus Christ. There is a reference in my Bible for John 3:5 (i.e. "unless one is born of the water") to Acts 2:38:

Acts 2:38

New King James Version

38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the [a]remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

This is the traditional interpretation of being "born of the water" referring to being baptized in the name of Jesus. Belief is foundational, of course, but belief prompts action, too, and the steps in the process from Acts 2: 37-38 are:

1. Belief
2. Repentance
3. Baptism
4. Remission of Sins
5. The gift of the Holy Spirit

All of these are important steps to become a new creation in Jesus Christ.

Yes brother amen I really understand what your getting at but then also those steps can be ordered differently as well

“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:44-48‬ ‭

We can see even if the order isn’t repent then get baptized then receive the gift of the Holy Ghost it doesn’t erase baptism both baptism and receiving the Holy Spirit are part of it water and spirit as your saying

I like what you said belief leads to action that’s really the process of faith we hear the things God said and believe them and those very things he said will lead us to repentance and life because he heard and believed

God has explained his doctrine for every matter baptism in his name for repentance and remission of sins , based upon our belief that he died for our sins partaking of his body and blood in remembrance of his sacrifice for us

Hearing his word , following his way trusting fully in him to lead and guide us the right way and save us who hear and respond to him and follow where he leads us

always appreciate the discussion brother. I think communion or baptism ect thier value is only when we hear what he said they mean and are for and so that becomes the reason we do them I personally believe faith is completed when the person acts upon what God had said to them ….like this

“And the LORD said unto Moses, Stretch out thine hand toward heaven, that there may be darkness over the land of Egypt, even darkness which may be felt. ( God has placed the power in whether Moses will act )

And Moses stretched forth his hand toward heaven; and there was a thick darkness in all the land of Egypt three days:”( moses acted as God spoke to him and it came to pass what he promised )
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭10:21-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when God says something and puts an action for the Hearer into the mix like that of the person obeys all that’s left is Gods word declaring the thing will happen

once moses acted it became this same power to create that which was declared by God

“And God said, Let there be light:

and there was light.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:3‬ ‭

faith also works through man when he’s giving an instruction and promises a result

the LORD said unto Moses, Stretch out thine hand toward heaven, that there may be darkness


Moses stretched forth his hand toward heaven; and there was a thick darkness

faith hears what God has said and believes it it will lead us to the actions he’s told us to take thisnis the same word that spoke light into existsnce from darkness and later spoke darkness into existence through Moses faith

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The gospel is what he’s said to all believers for thier salvation and the salvation of others and holds the same power to speak light into existence inside of us

“For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭4:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true,

and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:20‬ ‭

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Yes brother amen I really understand what your getting at but then also those steps can be ordered differently as well

“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:44-48‬ ‭

We can see even if the order isn’t repent then get baptized then receive the gift of the Holy Ghost it doesn’t erase baptism both baptism and receiving the Holy Spirit are part of it water and spirit as your saying

I like what you said belief leads to action that’s really the process of faith we hear the things God said and believe them and those very things he said will lead us to repentance and life because he heard and believed

God has explained his doctrine for every matter baptism in his name for repentance and remission of sins , based upon our belief that he died for our sins partaking of his body and blood in remembrance of his sacrifice for us

Hearing his word , following his way trusting fully in him to lead and guide us the right way and save us who hear and respond to him and follow where he leads us

always appreciate the discussion brother. I think communion or baptism ect thier value is only when we hear what he said they mean and are for and so that becomes the reason we do them I personally believe faith is completed when the person acts upon what God had said to them ….like this

“And the LORD said unto Moses, Stretch out thine hand toward heaven, that there may be darkness over the land of Egypt, even darkness which may be felt. ( God has placed the power in whether Moses will act )

And Moses stretched forth his hand toward heaven; and there was a thick darkness in all the land of Egypt three days:”( moses acted as God spoke to him and it came to pass what he promised )
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭10:21-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when God says something and puts an action for the Hearer into the mix like that of the person obeys all that’s left is Gods word declaring the thing will happen

once moses acted it became this same power to create that which was declared by God

“And God said, Let there be light:

and there was light.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:3‬ ‭

faith also works through man when he’s giving an instruction and promises a result

the LORD said unto Moses, Stretch out thine hand toward heaven, that there may be darkness


Moses stretched forth his hand toward heaven; and there was a thick darkness

faith hears what God has said and believes it it will lead us to the actions he’s told us to take thisnis the same word that spoke light into existsnce from darkness and later spoke darkness into existence through Moses faith

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The gospel is what he’s said to all believers for thier salvation and the salvation of others and holds the same power to speak light into existence inside of us

“For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭4:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true,

and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:20‬ ‭

Works based gospel....

I am amazed at those that trust themselves and not God.

 

[SilverFox7]

This post really bothers me.

As I showed in the above post. The true literal bread of life gives eternal life to EVERYONE who eats. they will never die. its not something we take over and over and over again, and never recieve the promise Jesus made to all who eat it

As for water baptism.. This is a work. It is a symbol of the true baptism, which happens when we are baptized by God into the death of Christ (rom 6)

as for your 5 points.
1. Repentance must come first. No one will believe UNTIL they have repented
2. Come faith, but as many as have recieved him, to them....
3. The washing of the Holy Spirit at new birth is where we are baptized into the blood. No baptism in water
4. Remission of sin comes on the fact we were washed by the Holy Spirit
5. The gift of the spirit is given to all who repent (acts 2) and this gifting is a seal which will last until the day of redemption

I have no problem with your faith perspective and agree with several of your points on the whole. I do my best to express an orthodox perspective and present teachings that have been handed down through the generations of church leaders dating back to the book of Acts, Paul in particular. I'm certainly not perfect and have a lot to learn for sure.

I enjoy basking in the grace of God as well and partaking of the "true literal bread of life," Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[SilverFox7]

Works based gospel....

I am amazed at those that trust themselves and not God.

Pilgrim and I trust God, too--there is no doubt about that. We just have a different faith/doctrinal point-of-view than you.

Nothing wrong with that as long as we agree on Jesus Christ being our Lord and Savior bottom line. If folks have a different perspective on this fact, there isn't any hope of finding middle ground with me.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I have no problem with your faith perspective and agree with several of your points on the whole. I do my best to express an orthodox perspective and present teachings that have been handed down through the generations of church leaders dating back to the book of Acts, Paul in particular. I'm certainly not perfect and have a lot to learn for sure.

I enjoy basking in the grace of God as well and partaking of the "true literal bread of life," Jesus Christ our Lord.

When did you partake of it?

I partook of it 40 some years ago. and it has sustained me since as Jesus promised it would.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Pilgrim and I trust God, too--there is no doubt about that. We just have a different faith/doctrinal point-of-view than you.

Nothing wrong with that as long as we agree on Jesus Christ being our Lord and Savior bottom line. If folks have a different perspective on this fact, there isn't any hope of finding middle ground with me.

What are you trusting though?

Jesus alone

Or jesus plus religious works such as water baptism.

remember the jews just wanted to add circumcision to grace and paul went off on them.

I fear religion has clouded our minds.. and kept us from truth.

 

[SilverFox7]

When did you partake of it?

I partook of it 40 some years ago. and it has sustained me since as Jesus promised it would.

In the context you are expressing, 37 years ago.

 

[SilverFox7]

What are you trusting though?

Jesus alone

Or jesus plus religious works such as water baptism.

remember the jews just wanted to add circumcision to grace and paul went off on them.

I fear religion has clouded our minds.. and kept us from truth.

Jesus

 

[SilverFox7]

Yes brother amen I really understand what your getting at but then also those steps can be ordered differently as well

“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:44-48‬ ‭

We can see even if the order isn’t repent then get baptized then receive the gift of the Holy Ghost it doesn’t erase baptism both baptism and receiving the Holy Spirit are part of it water and spirit as your saying

Excellent observation, Pilgrim. Yes, the steps can be ordered differently, and there are cases like the thief on the cross where water baptism (unless he was baptized by John the Baptist as I believe Cameron threw that possibility out there in another forum--love off the wall thinking like that!) is omitted from the equation altogether. God can handle our individual salvation experience however He wants, and He can change the rule book whenever He wants as well (e.g. OT law/prophets replaced by NT new covenant in Christ and the gospel).

The order I gave was from Acts 2: 37-38:

1. Belief--not directly listed by Peter but implied by the audiences' "Men and brethren, what shall we do?" Takes belief to ask that ?
2. Repentance
3. Baptism
4. Remission of Sins
5. The gift of the Holy Spirit

Like Everlasting... expressed as well, repentance can come before belief, and as you noted the Holy Spirit can be "poured out" prior to baptism. My conversion followed Peter's above on the whole although it is interesting that I need to continually dive into each of those "steps" on a regular basis, especially repentance for me . That's an ongoing state for this sinner.

I agree 100% with your observations on Acts 10: 44-48:

"We can see even if the order isn’t repent then get baptized then receive the gift of the Holy Ghost it doesn’t erase baptism both baptism and receiving the Holy Spirit are part of it water and spirit as your saying"

A big fat AMEN there, brother!

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I have no problem with your faith perspective and agree with several of your points on the whole. I do my best to express an orthodox perspective and present teachings that have been handed down through the generations of church leaders dating back to the book of Acts, Paul in particular. I'm certainly not perfect and have a lot to learn for sure.

I enjoy basking in the grace of God as well and partaking of the "true literal bread of life," Jesus Christ our Lord.

Oh I didint even notice any disagreements in what we’re saying I was just talking like we usually do.

i agree with what your saying also brother hadn’t meant at all to oppose it just rambling in like usual lol

yes I think you’ve heard what you believe really heard and believed based on what he said things like this I feel are why you feel that way

“Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:53-58‬ ‭KJV‬‬

things like this is what’s building faith according to what you’ve heard it’s why it has an impact on you when you eat of the bread and drink of the cup you know Jesus said it and your a believer ….you heard faith and you act in it because God places that in you by his word

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Im not at all saying your wrong I’m just offering a thought of where it came from whicch is hearing his word so later when you heard this it t just adds to the doctrine and understanding of what communion is actually about

“and when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭11:24-30‬ ‭KJV‬‬

now we can begin understanding the importance towards us regarding communion we can see this isn’t a meaningless ritual not an ordinance without impact but Paul’s actually saying to them “ it’s affecting your health and spiritual state of health because your taking communion i worthily without repentance in mind ….

at this point we can do away with the idea that communion is just a ritual without effectual meaning doctrine really writes a complete story and builds our beliefs according to what the lord actually taught things like baptism for repentance and remission of sins communion with his body and blood shed for us ect

 

[SilverFox7]

Oh I didint even notice any disagreements in what we’re saying I was just talking like we usually do.

i agree with what your saying also brother hadn’t meant at all to oppose it just rambling in like usual lol

That wasn't directed at you, my friend. We are singing from the same hymn book on the whole although I am content singing in the background of your beautiful gospel thoughts and praises.

Everlasting-Grace is expressing some objections, however, but I don't think we're as far off track overall as it may appear. I've found our disagreements as Christians pretty much all dissolve when we get back to the trunk of the tree--Jesus Christ.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

In the context you are expressing, 37 years ago.

Then remember,

You will never hunger, Never thirst. You will live forever. and God will raise you on the last day.

Remember that also when you take communion. which represents what gave you this food which endures forever.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Jesus

Then lets not worry about Baptism, the eucharist, Penance or any other work which are a byproduct of salvation. and not a work or sacrament used to gain or keep salvation.

Remember, we are saved by Grace, through faith, and those saved through the faith will work.. (eph 2: 8-10)

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Excellent observation, Pilgrim. Yes, the steps can be ordered differently, and there are cases like the thief on the cross where water baptism (unless he was baptized by John the Baptist as I believe Cameron threw that possibility out there in another forum--love off the wall thinking like that!) is omitted from the equation altogether. God can handle our individual salvation experience however He wants, and He can change the rule book whenever He wants as well (e.g. OT law/prophets replaced by NT new covenant in Christ and the gospel).

The order I gave was from Acts 2: 37-38:

1. Belief--not directly listed by Peter but implied by the audiences' "Men and brethren, what shall we do?" Takes belief to ask that ?
2. Repentance
3. Baptism
4. Remission of Sins
5. The gift of the Holy Spirit

Like Everlasting... expressed as well, repentance can come before belief, and as you noted the Holy Spirit can be "poured out" prior to baptism. My conversion followed Peter's above on the whole although it is interesting that I need to continually dive into each of those "steps" on a regular basis, especially repentance for me . That's an ongoing state for this sinner.

I agree 100% with your observations on Acts 10: 44-48:

"We can see even if the order isn’t repent then get baptized then receive the gift of the Holy Ghost it doesn’t erase baptism both baptism and receiving the Holy Spirit are part of it water and spirit as your saying"

A big fat AMEN there, brother!

But is the baptism spirit baptism, or water baptism.

It can not be both, as paul said, the elementary principles. one baptism..

which one is the most important.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Oh I didint even notice any disagreements in what we’re saying I was just talking like we usually do.

i agree with what your saying also brother hadn’t meant at all to oppose it just rambling in like usual lol

yes I think you’ve heard what you believe really heard and believed based on what he said things like this I feel are why you feel that way

“Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:53-58‬ ‭KJV‬‬

things like this is what’s building faith according to what you’ve heard it’s why it has an impact on you when you eat of the bread and drink of the cup you know Jesus said it and your a believer ….you heard faith and you act in it because God places that in you by his word

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Im not at all saying your wrong I’m just offering a thought of where it came from whicch is hearing his word so later when you heard this it t just adds to the doctrine and understanding of what communion is actually about

“and when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭11:24-30‬ ‭KJV‬‬

now we can begin understanding the importance towards us regarding communion we can see this isn’t a meaningless ritual not an ordinance without impact but Paul’s actually saying to them “ it’s affecting your health and spiritual state of health because your taking communion i worthily without repentance in mind ….

at this point we can do away with the idea that communion is just a ritual without effectual meaning doctrine really writes a complete story and builds our beliefs according to what the lord actually taught things like baptism for repentance and remission of sins communion with his body and blood shed for us ect

But it still is not the flesh and blood that endures forever.

If you have to keep eating and drinking, then it is no better than Manna who the fathers continued to eat, yet still died.

 

[SilverFox7]

But is the baptism spirit baptism, or water baptism.

It can not be both, as paul said, the elementary principles. one baptism..

which one is the most important.

That's a great question, and I'll let Pilgrim chime in too.

I would say "water and spirit" are one, just like the Father and Jesus are one. Spirit takes precedence for sure in my opinion.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

That's a great question, and I'll let Pilgrim chime in too.

I would say "water and spirit" are one, just like the Father and Jesus are one. Spirit takes precedence for sure in my opinion.

Are you speaking of John 3?

Water in John 3 is not baptism. it is physical birth..

If it was baptism, I believe jesus would have said when he spoke of how we are born again (believe and be baptized etc) would he not?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

That wasn't directed at you, my friend. We are singing from the same hymn book on the whole although I am content singing in the background of your beautiful gospel thoughts and praises.

Everlasting-Grace is expressing some objections, however, but I don't think we're as far off track overall as it may appear. I've found our disagreements as Christians pretty much all dissolve when we get back to the trunk of the tree--Jesus Christ.

Indeed brother when everything begins and ends with Jesus there’s a certain unmistakable untiy of spirit and intent of course myself being such a flawed person and having so many man maaaaany shortcomings I find that christians like myself anyways really needs the communication of others within that place where Jesus is the beginning and end because I learn and grow from that exchange often as if it’s fertilizer so it’s 100 percent juet two imperfect fellows seeking better knowledge of the lord and mutually beneficial

“Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father by him.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I think when we focus on Jesus and his doctrine in the gospel it’s always going to feed us and anyone who does the same will be eating the bread that gives life

“Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.

Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:26-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan.

And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him: ( water and spirit )

and there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:9-11‬ ‭


“He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.

And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony. He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true. For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:31-36‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:27-30‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: that all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:22-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. ( statements like this by him is what gives power to believers actions like communion they do it because of what he taught in the gospel and they believe it )

As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? ( they took it literally ) ….It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:55-58, 60, 63-64, 67-

some will hear and believe others will hear jibberish and not hear what’s being said because there are sort of other doctrines plugging thier ears

If we read enough about “ grace alone “ for instance and we read books telling us to forget about any condition Jesus made because that’s not grace it’s a work ….then when we hear what he’s saying it’s like we have our ears plugged up and we’re going to reject it because he’s a tescher teaching believers about salvation in his everlasting kingdom

we need to be as new children and let him be the one telling us the truth bu which we measure all other statements against like he’s our father tesching his children about life and death

 

[Pilgrimshope]

That's a great question, and I'll let Pilgrim chime in too.

I would say "water and spirit" are one, just like the Father and Jesus are one. Spirit takes precedence for sure in my opinion.

Water and spirit are one in agreement yes! they witness with Jesus blood that our sins are remitted

“And there are three that bear witness in earth,

the Spirit,

and the water,

and the blood: and these three agree in one.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus blood was shed for remission of sins

“for this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭26:28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“and the water, “
We get baptized in his name for remission of sins because we heard and believed that he died for our sins it’s an act of faith

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And we receive his spirit which also testifies to us that our sins are remitted because we obeyed we stepped on faith believing what he said would remit our sins

Notice what happens there in acts 2 after Jesus shed the spirit forth as John promised ? Baptism becomes like Jesus baptism

“And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan. And straightway coming up out of the water,


he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:

and there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:9-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

baptism after Jesus rose and sent his spirit was complete water and spirit water is an act of faith believing he died for our sins so we get baptized in his name who died for our sins to remit our sins

And receiving his spirit is a promise to all believers of the gospel baptized or not

Remission of sins is what baptism is about it’s for the repentant believers who want to do what God said to do for remission of our sins

Water and spirit are like two witnesses declaring what Jesus blood was shed for all three make up one complete witness

they all testify that through Jesus death and resurrection oir sins have been remitted because Jesus never sinned he was baptized for remission of our sins we get baptized in his name who died without sin , as he died for us who do have sin

Baptism in my own opinion is a simple and basic doctrine that is well explained in the New Testament . It was clearly performed in water before and also after the cross Peter and the apostles kept baptizing in water Paul was baptized , gentiles were baptized , Paul taught why we get baptized Peter taught about it also the prophets foretold it ….

I think it’s a plain thing but often ot seems to be a point of major disagreement

Amy opinion is people say “ you don’t need to do anything your already saved by grace “

So then when they hear Jesus and the gospel explaining what to do they hit i major conflict

is faith to believe the gospel and what Jesus said will save souls ?

Or is faith to reject what it says and what he said will save souls and say everyone’s already saved by grace ?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Indeed brother when everything begins and ends with Jesus there’s a certain unmistakable untiy of spirit and intent of course myself being such a flawed person and having so many man maaaaany shortcomings I find that christians like myself anyways really needs the communication of others within that place where Jesus is the beginning and end because I learn and grow from that exchange often as if it’s fertilizer so it’s 100 percent juet two imperfect fellows seeking better knowledge of the lord and mutually beneficial

“Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father by him.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I think when we focus on Jesus and his doctrine in the gospel it’s always going to feed us and anyone who does the same will be eating the bread that gives life

“Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.

Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:26-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan.

And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him: ( water and spirit )

and there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:9-11‬ ‭


“He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.

And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony. He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true. For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:31-36‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:27-30‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: that all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:22-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. ( statements like this by him is what gives power to believers actions like communion they do it because of what he taught in the gospel and they believe it )

As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? ( they took it literally ) ….It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:55-58, 60, 63-64, 67-

some will hear and believe others will hear jibberish and not hear what’s being said because there are sort of other doctrines plugging thier ears

If we read enough about “ grace alone “ for instance and we read books telling us to forget about any condition Jesus made because that’s not grace it’s a work ….then when we hear what he’s saying it’s like we have our ears plugged up and we’re going to reject it because he’s a tescher teaching believers about salvation in his everlasting kingdom

we need to be as new children and let him be the one telling us the truth bu which we measure all other statements against like he’s our father tesching his children about life and death

So in all of this post of yours.

Where does it say anything else needs to be done?

Grace and works do not mix.

when we spend our life trying to mix grace and works. we fail and stop to see that Grace means unmerited favor. and start to think we have to do stuff in order to earn grace.

Which makes it not of grace at all.

Paul makes it clear.

1. We are saved by GRACE through faith. not of works lest we should boast(eph 2)
2. Not by works of righteousness (good deeds) which we have done, but by his mercy he saved us by the washing and renewal of the spirit (titus 3)
3. We are saved by the same faith Abraham was (Romans 4) If it is of works. we have something to boast about

I am dumbfounded at to how people can scream that people who boast in Christ and the cross are missing the picture. and fail to see the rest that we need to do to be saved

And fail to comprehend that there is nothing that we can do to cause God to forgive us of 1 sin. No baptism in water, No eucharistic ceremony, No tighint, No act of penance. Nothing, Again, all these works of righteousneess are great. but they did not, do not or will nto save us