The Error of KJV-Onlyism

Nehemiah6 · Mar 22, 2024

"... yet the modern scholars of today have chosen to leave it omitted since it does not appear in the two "crowning manuscripts" of modern scholarship." -- Tims

Beginning with Westcott & Hort (W & H), most corrupt Greek manuscripts -- Aleph and B, or Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus -- were elevated to an irrational level of worthiness. And this lies at the heart of the modern bible version corruption. Modern textual scholars have all slavishly followed W &H, and all critical texts are simply modifications of that produced by W & H. Nestle, Nestle-Aland, the United Bible Societies, etc. are basically the same, and rely primarily on Aleph & B. Which also means that there are serious doctrinal changes which are present in modern versions.

Bible_Highlighter · Mar 22, 2024

Nehemiah6 said:

To make matters worse for the Modern Bible Movement:

#1. The Vaticanus and Sinaiticus exhibit really bad corrections on them
(So they are not the best manuscripts as the scholars falsely claim).

#2. The Modern Bible Movement was also founded on deception with Westcott and Hort
(with their Revised Version saying that it was the version set forth in 1611, but it wasn’t).

Stan_the_Man · Mar 22, 2024

Bible_Highlighter said:

They are the tares, the wolves God's Word warns us about.

Bible_Highlighter said:

Yeah, and some people have been turned over to a reprobate mind and have to be loved from afar.

I don't sit under false doctrine or associate with those that teach it.

Bible_Highlighter said:

Wait till you here Jesus rebuke them!

God's Word has some very hard things to say about wolves that lead people astray.

They are in fact servants of the devil.

Bible_Highlighter said:

And we are also called to correct false doctrine so others don't fall in to satan's trap.

There's much more going on than just our own well being. Somebody needs to warn people!

Playing patty cakes with false teachers causes a lot of believers to stumble

Bible_Highlighter said:

Don't worry, I'm never down and we are called to "react negatively" to wolves among us to warn other believers they are wolves.

Being like Joel Osteen, who said he didn't think homosexuality was God's best, just leads to more deception of the people.

False doctrine needs to be called out for what it is... opposition to the Lord!

Bible_Highlighter · Mar 22, 2024

Stan_the_Man said:

Well, I would say that any Christian who justifies sin is a tare. This in my experience goes beyond just Calvinists. But I believe we should be loving towards them, tell them the truth in love, and pray for them and hope they will one-day be saved. We should not try to uproot them.

Matthew 13:25-30
"But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn."

Neither should we only show hate by our words towards them, either. We cannot lower ourselves to act like the world acts and crack jokes on them. For example: One of my family members told me that they have new neighbors now that live on each side of his house. These new neighbors have been doing things that treat my family member living in his own house as if they are an enemy. One neighbor killed my family''s outside bush. The other neighbor is trying to get my family member in trouble with the law over something that does not involve him, and they both yell at him. Yet, these choices by the new neighbors are unfair and unwarranted. My family member has been living in that house for tons of years with no trouble from his previous neighbors. How would you react? Would you yell back in anger hoping for their worst fate possible? Would you tell them to mind their own business as you yelled at them? Should you yell at them and tell them that they are dirty rotten sinners who are pure evil who need to repent? Would that be the love of Christ? Granted, I am not saying there is not a time to properly call people to repentance or lead them to be convicted by the Word. The point here is how do others view us believers in representing God's kingdom here on Earth? Do they see us believers just always as mean and nasty people? Or do they see that we genuinely care for their souls and we want to see them saved one-day?

You said:

That is noble, and we should be holy and separate from those who teach false doctrine. But sometimes we can reach them by putting bits and pieces in the horses' mouths.

You said:

We were once servants of the devil, too.
They deserve God's grace no less than us.
I find that sometimes the carrot is better than the stick always.

You said:

Right, and we can still rebuke their false belief in love and respect and not make them out to be if they are as bad as the future Antichrist.

You said:

We are living in the last days and so it is hard to find anyone who wants to take following Jesus seriously. It is difficult to do for even those who even believe correctly. I believe you can warn against the false belief, and be holy and separate from them. But Paul said to the Jew, I become a Jew. It's not that Paul literally becomes a Jew, but he is being diplomatic in such a way to reach them.

You said:

Yes, I agree. There are liberals and they do need to be called out, but we also should show love to even them and pray for them. We should care for their soul genuinely and hold out hope that they may be saved one-day by our praying for them. Letting them rot because they are a wolf means we don't care. People can change and the LORD can be very persuasive.

Bible_Highlighter · Mar 22, 2024

Stan_the_Man said:

I suppose what I am trying to say is that if a master always kicks his dog across the room like a football if it keeps pooping on the carpet, how do you think it is going to react? Will the dog love this master? So my point is the golden rule. Do unto others as you want to be treated. If somebody just started calling you devil, or pure evil, or they cracked jokes about you and your belief, how would you feel? How does the world view Christianity if they see it as only hateful and mean? While we do need to rebuke false beliefs, we should also not act like the wolves are beyond any hope and that we should kick them like a football. Where is the love of Christ in that? What about helping the poor, and loving your enemies part? What about loving the brethren? Does the light of Christ shine in one’s life? Do we want to see all people perish who do not believe as we do currently? Should we kick them while they are down? Granted, I understand that some will never repent or accept Christ the correct way. But we cannot know who will repent in the end at the last moment. We do not know the future or fate of people. Only God knows that. Our mission is to love others with the love of Christ. Yes, they can involve rebuking false beliefs, but it should always be done with love in our hearts towards those who hold to such false beliefs. We should not think that others are pond scum and we are hot stuff. For he that thinks he is something when he is nothing deceives himself.

Stan_the_Man · Mar 22, 2024

Bible_Highlighter said:

If I were involved in spread false doctrine, I would want someone to show me from God's Word correct doctrine so I am treating others the way I would like to be treated because Truth comes from God's Word.

Bible_Highlighter said:

Calvinists do this to me all the time, and I cast my cares upon the Lord, ignore their comments, and it rolls off of me like water off a ducks back. Doesn't bother me in the least.

Bible_Highlighter said:

The world expects real Christians to warn others of the wolves that are among us.

Bible_Highlighter said:

You should get a refresher and go re-read the gospels and notice how Jesus spoke to the Pharisees and Sadducees and you'll see that Jesus does not act like Joel Osteen when it comes to wolves leading the sheep astray.

Bible_Highlighter · Mar 22, 2024

Stan_the_Man said:

This is why I am not a fan of Dan Corner. While much of what he says about Conditional Salvation is true, he shows no love for the lost and hope that anyone who believes falsely will be saved in the end. He says that they deserve the skull and crossbones award. This to me is not the way of Christ. It does not appear like he actually cares about their soul and he is more concerned about being right on a particular Bible topic. In 1 Corinthians 13, if we have not love or charity and we give our body to be burned, it profits us nothing. We have to have the love of Christ shine in our lives. It should flow like a river out from our words and down from our head and to our toes in our actions every day.

Bible_Highlighter · Mar 22, 2024

Stan_the_Man said:

Yes, I am all for that. Correcting others is important but it should be done in love and not hate.

You said:

Yes, I have been persecuted by Calvinists before, too. But we should be better in how we react back to them. I do not believe cracking jokes about them is the love of Christ. Yes, God can laugh at them, but we are not God. God knows the future. God can do things that we cannot do.

You said:

Yes, I am not against that as I said before. But one can do this in a loving way or a hateful way.
Moses struck the rock in anger because he was frustrated with the disobedience of God's people.
Was Moses doing the correct thing?

You said:

Jesus is God and we are not. Jesus knew men's thoughts, and we don't know their thoughts like He did. Jesus could tell what a person's life was about without having physically been there. We cannot do that.

Yes, we should rebuke false beliefs. I am not saying to be like a Joel Olsteen by any means. But we should love them and pray for them and rebuke in love.

Stan_the_Man · Mar 22, 2024

Bible_Highlighter said:

That's just your opinion. He frequently says these people must repent in order to be saved so he is giving them the solution to their false doctrine which is admit it and quit it.

Bible_Highlighter said:

Jesus told the Pharisees and Sadducees they were of their father the devil and his works they will do.

Jesus never made any big push with these people to get them to repent.

Bible_Highlighter said:

That's just your opinion.

He gives them a call to action to repent so he did his part telling them what they must do to be saved.

Bible_Highlighter said:

Do you believe Jesus was not following 1 Corinthians 13 ?

He was very harsh on the Pharisees and Sadducees and some of the Apostles were also very harsh in what they said about false teachers.

God is more about protecting the sheep than try6ing to convince the wolves to get right with Him.

The wolves have had plenty of opportunity to get right and the choose not to because they are reprobate.

Stan_the_Man · Mar 22, 2024

Bible_Highlighter said:

Jesus was very harsh with how He dealt with the Pharisees and Sadducees and He was walking in love.

When Jesus made that whip and was hitting people with it as He turned over the money changers tables running them out, He was walking in love and did not sin while doing this.

Bible_Highlighter said:

Sorry, I'll continue telling them they are purveyors of false doctrine and warn others about them being wolves.

Bible_Highlighter said:

We are called to follow the Lord so if He can laugh at them we can to.

This is all personal opinion so if you want to patty cake around and try to make the wolves feel good about themselves then go right ahead. Nobody is telling you to not do what you think you need to do.

Bible_Highlighter said:

Jesus is our model to follow not Moses.

Bible_Highlighter said:

Jesus said we would know them by their fruit and a good tree will not produce evil fruit.

Nobody is stopping you from being nice to the wolves if this is what you think you need to do.

Tell people what the truth is and telling those following false doctrine IS the Love of God.

Stan_the_Man · Mar 22, 2024

I meant to say:

Tell people what the truth is and telling those following false doctrine they need to repent IS the Love of God.

Nehemiah6 · Mar 22, 2024

Bible_Highlighter said:

Yes. There is no question that there was serious deception. Burgon, Scrivener, and others noted this at that time, but they were all ignored. They still are. Which goes to show how easily Satan can deceive people through so-called "scholarship". From the 18th century on, the majority of textual scholars and critics were theological liberals. Those who have never read The King James Version Defended by Edward Hills owe it to themselves to read and digest it.

Nehemiah6 · Mar 22, 2024

Stan_the_Man said:

Actually you will note that those who have embraced false doctrines resist the truth, no matter how many Scriptures are presented. Christ said "Leave them alone" (or words to that effect). Thus those who have committed themselves to supporting modern versions refuse to change their stance and admit that they have been wrong all along. The exception was Frank Logsdon, the leading translator of the NASB.
Frank Logsdon Repudiates the NASB
https://av1611.com/kjbp/articles/logsdon-repudiates-nasb.html

Stan_the_Man · Mar 22, 2024

Nehemiah6 said:

Yep, you very rarely see anybody admitting they were wrong.

If they did then all their religious friends would drop them

Bible_Highlighter · Mar 22, 2024

Stan_the_Man said:

If you were paying attention, I said that they do need to be rebuked. But this would be done in love and not by cracking jokes like we don’t care about them. Anyway, I made my case and you’re not getting it. May the Lord one-day reveal such truths to you when you mature and grow in Christ.

I will leave you with The Parable of the Unforgiving Servant, found in Matthew 18:21-35. Please read and prayer over this parable.

Stan_the_Man · Mar 22, 2024

Bible_Highlighter said:

Yes of course, we all aspire to be like you when we grow up so we can pet the wolves
and help them feel good bout themselves and their leading the sheep astray

Bible_Highlighter · Mar 22, 2024

Stan_the_Man said:

See, this is what I am talking about. You twisted what I said and you are proposing that I don’t believe in rebuking false beliefs which I have done many times before. You just jumped to the wrong conclusions. What do you think I have been doing in this thread? I have been rebuking false beliefs. In this case, I am rebuking those who reject the Bible’s teachings on the doctrines of the purity and preservation of His Word.

Anyway, by your attitude of drawing the wrong conclusion and going into full assault mode, you come off as unloving and like you don’t really care about anyone.

Bible_Highlighter · Mar 22, 2024

Stan_the_Man said:

Jesus was very harsh with how He dealt with the Pharisees and Sadducees and He was walking in love.

When Jesus made that whip and was hitting people with it as He turned over the money changers tables running them out, He was walking in love and did not sin while doing this.

Sorry, I'll continue telling them they are purveyors of false doctrine and warn others about them being wolves.

We are called to follow the Lord so if He can laugh at them we can to.

This is all personal opinion so if you want to patty cake around and try to make the wolves feel good about themselves then go right ahead. Nobody is telling you to not do what you think you need to do.

Jesus is our model to follow not Moses.

Jesus said we would know them by their fruit and a good tree will not produce evil fruit.

Nobody is stopping you from being nice to the wolves if this is what you think you need to do.

Tell people what the truth is and telling those following false doctrine IS the Love of God.

By the way, Jesus used a whip, but no verse in Scripture says He actually harmed others with it. Think. The Jews could have used that against Him in His trial.

Stan_the_Man · Mar 22, 2024

Bible_Highlighter said:

Those that look for affirmation from man might think that.

They need to rest IN Christ and let the Lord be their everything.

Bible_Highlighter said:

Well he certainly was threatening to harm them with it and He violently turned over their tables. Some claim Jesus was not walking in love at that tome which would have been accusing Him if sinful behavior.

"So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple courts" - You cannot prove He didn't hit anybody with the whip.

It's like the second time Jesus sent them out 2 by 2 He told them to sell something and buy a sword... which is a deadly weapon. There's only one thing a deadly weapon can be used for and still Jesus was walking in love when he directed them to obtain a weapon.

Bible_Highlighter · Mar 22, 2024

Stan_the_Man said:

There is no evidence of that in Scripture.

You said:

You cannot prove there wasn’t a fire breathing poodle in the story. It does not mean that believers can just imagine that there was one. So argument is one from silence.

You said:

WHY DID JESUS ASK HIS DISCIPLES TO BUY A SWORD? HE SAID: "HE THAT HATH NO SWORD, LET HIM SELL HIS GARMENT, AND BUY ONE". (LUKE 22:36)

Indeed it is a very interesting statement made by the Prince of peace!

Was Jesus telling them to buy a sword for offence, self-defense, or was He meaning something else? He said earlier:

Resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also... Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you. (Matthew 5:39-40, Matthew 5:44)

The real battle is not with fellow humans but with the prince of demons. The apostle Paul penned down clearly these wonderful words of truth:

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. (Ephesians 6:12)

We are to be equipped in this great warfare. In fact the entire armories we require in an earthly battle are also required in the spiritual battle. Each earthly weapon symbolizes some spiritual weapon.

Look at how the apostle relates the earthly to the spiritual:

Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

And your feet shod with the preparation of the Gospel of peace; Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints. (Ephesians 6:13-18)

You have the "whole armour"-breastplate, shield, helmet, sword, etc! It is not the literal weapons, but rather "the breastplate of righteousness", "the shield of faith", "the helmet of salvation", and "the sword of the Spirit"!

Jesus told each of His disciples to possess a sword. Which sword? Was it literal swords that He bid them have?

Many times we see when Jesus spoke figuratively people got Him wrong. Even the learned Nicodemus misunderstood Christ regarding being born again. When Jesus talked about the spiritual birth he took it literally.

Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? (John 3:4)

(Continued in next post):

The Error of KJV-Onlyism

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