Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

[Magenta]

Again, not I'm not talking about what an individual may or may not do. I never suggested that trusting or faith is a work. I'm asking about God. A simple yes or no will do. Is it just for God to accept a payment for an individual's sins and still require another payment for their sins?

Jesus' sacrificial death is sufficient for all but efficacious only unto those who believe.

 

[Mem]

Again, not I'm not talking about what an individual may or may not do. I never suggested that trusting or faith is a work. I'm asking about God. A simple yes or no will do. Is it just for God to accept a payment for an individual's sins and still require another payment for their sins?

In your view, there is no "If...then" acceptance of payment possibility?

 

[Mem]

...For example, If God has said, " I set before you, life and death. Choose." Then we must choose, and not choosing is effectively choosing not to choose, and that would seem to be a sort of, I don't know, shrug offish? attitude toward God.

 

[Mem]

Jesus Fulfills the Law

17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Should we accept His fulfilment of the law? or should we be left to fulfil it ourselves?

I am wondering if the laws concerning vows (Numbers 30) somehow relates to how salvation works out...

 

[Magenta]

...For example, If God has said, " I set before you, life and death. Choose." Then we must choose, and not choosing is
effectively choosing not to choose, and that would seem to be a sort of, I don't know, shrug offish? attitude toward God.

Our God is a Consuming Fire

 

[brightfame52]

...For example, If God has said, " I set before you, life and death. Choose." Then we must choose, and not choosing is effectively choosing not to choose, and that would seem to be a sort of, I don't know, shrug offish? attitude toward God.

Salvation is for them God has chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world Eph 1:3-13

 

[Cameron143]

Jesus' sacrificial death is sufficient for all but efficacious only unto those who believe.

What does that mean? Did He actually pay for the sins of every person who will ever live?

 

[tylerbones1313]

What does that mean? Did He actually pay for the sins of every person who will ever live?

Yes, but only to those who TRULY accept that payment, by true faith in Christ and what He done at the Cross.

 

[Cameron143]

In your view, there is no "If...then" acceptance of payment possibility?

I'm not against if...then proposals in general. And God has done many if...then proposals. The old covenant was an if...then proposal. If you obey, blessing. If you disobey...cursing.
That's not the question.
God can do as He pleases. He is sovereign. But He is also just. So I'm asking, is it just of God to accept Jesus' payment on someone's behalf, and then still require that individual to make the payment a second time?

 

[Cameron143]

Yes, but only to those who TRULY accept that payment, by true faith in Christ and what He done at the Cross.

So people whose sins are paid for will die and go to hell?

 

[selahsays]

So people whose sins are paid for will die and go to hell?

No, Cameron. Why would they go to hell? They’re saved! (think Elect)

 

[Rufus]

[QUOTE="selahsays, post: 5267977, member: 324019"]What’s your point? I’m beginning to think you don’t have one.[/QUOTE]

Your rabbit trail. I don't do posts that are non sequiturs.

 

[Rufus]

No, Cameron. Why would they go to hell? They’re saved! (think Elect) View attachment 261778

Now, you're cookin' with gas, lady! Jesus really did die for [only] many!

 

[Cameron143]

No, Cameron. Why would they go to hell? They’re saved! (think Elect) View attachment 261778

So you believe people in hell did not have their sins paid for?

 

[selahsays]

So you believe people in hell did not have their sins paid for?

right

 

[Mem]

I'm not against if...then proposals in general. And God has done many if...then proposals. The old covenant was an if...then proposal. If you obey, blessing. If you disobey...cursing.
That's not the question.
God can do as He pleases. He is sovereign. But He is also just. So I'm asking, is it just of God to accept Jesus' payment on someone's behalf, and then still require that individual to make the payment a second time?

You've asked me to frame "just" according to your notion of it. How can I be sure that either of us can adequately establish God's perimeters in his judgement of justice?

If Jesus died for the sins of the world, but the whole world isn't saved from their sin, then it is not his atonement that is missing anything, we are missing something. But I don't know what keeps people from considering what this might be.

 

[Cameron143]

right

That was my point in the first place. So how do you reconcile this with John 3:16?

 

[Mem]

God so loved the world that He didn't die for the sins of the world.

 

[brightfame52]

@selahsays

The only condition for salvation is that you “believeth in Him.” The Cross draws believers to God. For those who believe, Jesus paid the full price.

Actually the only condition for believing is that Christ died for you . His being lifted up to die draws people He was lifted up for to believe.

So those people He didnt die for, will not believe, Jesus says of them Jn 10:26

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. He died for His Sheep ! So His dying and their believing are in sync

 

[Mem]

God paid everyone's electric bill but also has to turn on the light switch for you because flicking the switch is considered a work and we can hardly walk or talk and are always pooping ourselves.

#taking it to Calvin's logical conclusion.