Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

[tylerbones1313]

I appreciate your answer. So, if I follow correctly, your argument is that Jesus paid for every sin, people continue to sin, those sins are also paid for, but God sends them to hell anyway. Is this justice? Did God keep the covenant He made with the Son?

The question of justice arises when considering the fate of those who continue in sin without repentance and faith in Jesus Christ. According to biblical teachings, justice in this context is not merely about punishment but is also inherently tied to righteousness and holiness. God’s justice was satisfied through Jesus’ sacrifice, which was sufficient to cover all sins. However, for this sacrifice to be efficacious in an individual's life, it must be accepted through faith, as outlined in Romans 10:9-10, "If you declare with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." When individuals choose to reject this offer of salvation, or claim to accept it without a genuine transformation of heart and life (evidenced by a continuous lifestyle of willful sinning without repentance), they are not availing themselves of the atonement made on their behalf. In this sense, God's sending of individuals to hell is a just response to the rejection of His provision for salvation, not a contradiction of it.

Regarding the covenant between God the Father and the Son, it's crucial to understand that this covenant ensures the salvation of all who come to God through faith in Jesus Christ. God has indeed kept this covenant, as all who truly believe and are transformed by the Holy Spirit will not be lost. John 6:39 underscores this, with Jesus saying, "And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day." The covenant is kept flawlessly on God’s part; the invitation to salvation stands open, and its promises are secure for all who genuinely accept them.

 

[Cameron143]

It may surprise you to learn that only the elect are capable of committing the unforgivable sin, but they will not. The Holy Spirit resides in believers, also known as the elect. Those who don't believe do not. Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is the unforgivable sin.

I'm aware of what the unpardonable sin is. Someone suggested it might be unbelief. I was only concerned to address a particular aspect of it. And while I believe in election, arguing doctrine using the language of election and predestination generally causes people to harden their positions and raise emotions and inhibits discussion rather than enhances. So I usually develop arguments using less polarizing terms.

 

[Cameron143]

Using that logic, nobody is ever saved.

Or, unbelief isn't actually the unpardonable sin.

 

[selahsays]

I'm aware of what the unpardonable sin is. Someone suggested it might be unbelief. I was only concerned to address a particular aspect of it. And while I believe in election, arguing doctrine using the language of election and predestination generally causes people to harden their positions and raise emotions and inhibits discussion rather than enhances. So I usually develop arguments using less polarizing terms.

So you understand that it’s only the Elect who can possibly commit the unpardonable sin?

 

[Magenta]

Or, unbelief isn't actually the unpardonable sin.

You seem to be arguing that everyone is saved.

 

[Mem]

I agree. What "all" means there is a subject of great debate. But you just opened the door for it to mean something other than totality. Most don't acknowledge that.

Blaspheming the Holy Spirit is not blaspheming Jesus, which can be forgiven, but it is effectively rejecting the One that seals an individual's belief (testifies, verifies, certifies).
It is also specified that "those who do not believe" that is, remain in unbelief, be excluded from all the saved. There is a supposition that it is 'impossible' to believe the truth. Yet the truth is the only thing that one should believe. And if we should believe it, and if that we ought does imply that we can, then it is given within the capabilities of those that are directed to do so, to do it.

 

[Cameron143]

So you understand that it’s only the Elect who can possibly commit the unpardonable sin?

Were the Pharisees elect? They committed such blasphemy.

 

[Cameron143]

You seem to be arguing that everyone is saved.

I'm not. I don't believe the unpardonable sin is unbelief. That doesn't mean everyone believes.

 

[Magenta]

I'm not. I don't believe the unpardonable sin is unbelief. That doesn't mean everyone believes.

If unbelief is forgiven, unbelievers would not be cast into the lake of fire.

 

[selahsays]

Were the Pharisees elect? They committed such blasphemy.

That’s a good question! I don’t know! But they definitely knew who Jesus was; they knew He was the Son of God. They still accused Him falsely—on purpose! …with the Holy Spirit standing right in front of them! Talking about blasphemy! Wow!!!

 

[Cameron143]

Blaspheming the Holy Spirit is not blaspheming Jesus, which can be forgiven, but it is effectively rejecting the One that seals an individual's belief (testifies, verifies, certifies).
It is also specified that "those who do not believe" that is, remain in unbelief, be excluded from all the saved. There is a supposition that it is 'impossible' to believe the truth. Yet the truth is the only thing that one should believe. And if we should believe it, and if that we ought does imply that we can, then it is given within the capabilities of those that are directed to do so, to do it.

Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is ascribing Jesus' works to Satan and not the Holy Spirit.
I personally don't believe it can be done today. But even if it can, it's not unbelief.

 

[Mem]

Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is ascribing Jesus' works to Satan and not the Holy Spirit.
I personally don't believe it can be done today. But even if it can, it's not unbelief.

You believe it was only done one time by a couple of pharisees?

 

[Cameron143]

If unbelief is forgiven, unbelievers would not be cast into the lake of fire.

Unbelief can be forgiven. But it can only be forgiven this side of the grave, just as every other sin.

 

[Cameron143]

You believe it was only done one time by a couple of pharisees?

No. But that wasn't what was asked. The question was whether only the elect could commit the sin.

 

[Mem]

No. But that wasn't what was asked. The question was whether only the elect could commit the sin.

The Holy Spirit convicts the world of sin. So, there doesn't seem to me that there is anyone excluded among those He approaches.

 

[selahsays]

Unbelief can be forgiven. But it can only be forgiven this side of the grave, just as every other sin.

….and perhaps also in the Millennium. There will be much teaching in the Millennium for those who were never taught the Truth of God’s Word for whatever reason. If they pass this time around in the Millennium, they will go through the second resurrection. If they fail, it will be the Lake of Fire for them.

 

[Cameron143]

The Holy Spirit convicts the world of sin. So, there doesn't seem to me that there is anyone excluded among those He approaches.

Sure. But denying the Spirit or not responding to Him isn't the same as saying Satan is responsible for the works of Jesus. Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is a very specific sin.

 

[Mem]

Sure. But denying the Spirit or not responding to Him isn't the same as saying Satan is responsible for the works of Jesus. Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is a very specific sin.

They reasoned away the truth, to make it easier to reject.

 

[selahsays]

They reasoned away the truth, to make it easier to reject.

Yeah, but only our Father knows what’s what, and He will judge fairly at the GWTJ.

 

[Cameron143]

….and perhaps also in the Millennium. There will be much teaching in the Millennium for those who were never taught the Truth of God’s Word for whatever reason. If they pass this time around in the Millennium, they will go through the second resurrection. If they fail, it will be the Lake of Fire for them.

We understand this differently.