Predestination is misunderstood...

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,394
569
113
Not sure when regeneration takes place. It is prior to salvation but not necessarily long before it.
Nobody is sure when it takes place, but point being made is this, it has taken place to the ones who are made prepared spiritually to receive the Truth. Illustrated here Matt 13:23

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

Good ground is the new regenerated heart, its now prepared spiritually to hear and receive the Truth and bear fruit
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,394
569
113
None of these verses is speaking about salvation. Actually, Paul is addressing those who are already saved. The adoption is not salvation. The adoption is clearly defined as a future event. Scripture defines the adoption as the redemption of our body (Rom. 8:23). There's no predestination without salvation coming first. Not one person is predestinated to be in Christ. It's just not there.

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

Rom 8:28-30

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

There's no word of Salvation without predestination.
To you its not speaking of salvation. Im not here showing your views
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,394
569
113
Faith IN the work of Jesus on our behalf is the vehicle/means for salvation.
God responds to faith, those are His terms, scripture is very clear on this from start to finish.
Faith is simply believing it is not a special word only found in the Bible.
Thats sounds like works, and God responding to someone ?? Thats definitely not right. Faith/Believing in Christ is Gods work in a individual Jn 6:29

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God[in you], that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

If man could believe in Christ on his own, then he does Gods work. However man cannot believe on Christ on his own Jn 6:44

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Drawing him to believe in Christ is Gods work
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,144
3,690
113
To you its not speaking of salvation. Im not here showing your views
What are we predestined to? Unto the adoption. This is not salvation. Paul is talking to those already saved.

Ephesians 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

The bible defines the adoption as the redemption of the body. It is a future event the believer is waiting on.

Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,144
3,690
113
Thats sounds like works, and God responding to someone ?? Thats definitely not right. Faith/Believing in Christ is Gods work in a individual Jn 6:29

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God[in you], that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

If man could believe in Christ on his own, then he does Gods work. However man cannot believe on Christ on his own Jn 6:44

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Drawing him to believe in Christ is Gods work
The "drawing" of God does not fix something, but gives a chance by pointing to God. All creation points to the Creator.

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,511
6,705
113
62
I
Nobody is sure when it takes place, but point being made is this, it has taken place to the ones who are made prepared spiritually to receive the Truth. Illustrated here Matt 13:23

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

Good ground is the new regenerated heart, its now prepared spiritually to hear and receive the Truth and bear fruit
I don't disagree. It was the point I was making.
 
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
Thats sounds like works, and God responding to someone ?? Thats definitely not right. Faith/Believing in Christ is Gods work in a individual Jn 6:29

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God[in you], that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

If man could believe in Christ on his own, then he does Gods work. However man cannot believe on Christ on his own Jn 6:44

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Drawing him to believe in Christ is Gods work
Man still had the truth in them in there fallen state.

All tho they where dead in there trespasses they still had the truth in them.

I can show you this in scripture.

There reason they died was because sin entered into them.

But still they had the truth in them.

Which means God for knows everything in everyone and those whom are willing to repent.

Man is able to still believe in his fallen state because they still have the truth in them.

Regeneration is no different to being refined.

And all faith is refined.

And every sentence I quote here I can back up with scripture, if ye want me to show you.
 
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
Man still had the truth in them in there fallen state.

All tho they where dead in there trespasses they still had the truth in them.

I can show you this in scripture.

There reason they died was because sin entered into them.

But still they had the truth in them.

Which means God for knows everything in everyone and those whom are willing to repent.

Man is able to still believe in his fallen state because they still have the truth in them.

Regeneration is no different to being refined.

And all faith is refined.

And every sentence I quote here I can back up with scripture, if ye want me to show you.
yet another red x from @Dino246 20 minutes ago to the above post , and yet again no willingness from him to want to be shown scripture, all there is disagreement from when I post scripture, and on top of this he doesn't want to be shown it.


And he wonders why he doesn't need opinion to.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
3,045
435
83
You've assumed a lot like this.

I'm wait for this, for you many times.

I'm accept this apology but this is not good.

This time I'm asking this question now.

If where living in a past time behind God, then How are we.


Forget about free will

Let's just address being free.

How are we free.
Get yourself a good pastor teacher dummy! Time travel can be demonic....
It may save you on simple things at first... to get you to believe it will save you later when you most need it.

Its the deception. It first wants you to get others to following you and your time traveling insights....

Then he takes the whole bunch of you down at once.

God may comfort us by knowing the future... up to a point. And, for some He has done that.

Get a good pastor teacher or you are nothing more than a sign in front of a building telling people to come in for psychic readings.
Or, maybe guide you in how to get ahead in the Devil's world.

I wanted nothing to do with it..... I wanted to know Christ. He guides my life. Jesus warned if you want to save your life that you will lose it.... Time travel when sought for is a desire to save your life.

For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it."

Matthew 16:25​

You need to know this..... Acts 16:16-18.


Once when we were going to the place of prayer, we were met by a female slave
who had a spirit by which she predicted the future. She earned a great deal of money
for her owners by fortune-telling. She followed Paul and the rest of us, shouting,
“These men are servants of the Most High God, who are telling you the way to be saved.”
She kept this up for many days. Finally Paul became so annoyed that he turned around
and said to the spirit, “In the name of Jesus Christ I command you to come out of her!”
At that moment the spirit left her."

Get yourself an excellent pastor teacher and stick with the Word for the rest of your life.
Otherwise, you are just a servant girl of the devil.


I make no apologies. For you are in trouble, and have been troubling of Christians..... The Devil can show you Scripture.
But he can not show the insight needed to have it be one with you. All you have been displaying is that you are aware of what Scripture states in English. But you run away from having a sound understanding of it.... And, want us to play kick ball with your
misunderstanding.. And, then accuse us of lacking Christian love when we smell what is beneath the skin you cover yourself with.


The Holy Spirit came down upon Jesus like a dove. Not like a bolt of lightning! Jesus said he saw Satan cast down to earth like lightning....

I pray you find an excellent pastor to teach you God's ways that you have yet to understand.
So far you can not understand Genesis 3.



Isaiah 55:8-9


“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
and your ways are not My ways.”
This is the Lord’s declaration.
“For as heaven is higher than earth,
so My ways are higher than your ways,
and My thoughts than your thoughts.

No apologies for telling the truth...
........
 
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
Get yourself a good pastor teacher dummy! Time travel can be demonic....
It may save you on simple things at first... to get you to believe it will save you later when you most need it.

Its the deception. It first wants you to get others to following you and your time traveling insights....

Then he takes the whole bunch of you down at once.

God may comfort us by knowing the future... up to a point. And, for some He has done that.

Get a good pastor teacher or you are nothing more than a sign in front of a building telling people to come in for psychic readings.
Or, maybe guide you in how to get ahead in the Devil's world.

I wanted nothing to do with it..... I wanted to know Christ. He guides my life. Jesus warned if you want to save your life that you will lose it.... Time travel when sought for is a desire to save your life.

For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it."

Matthew 16:25​

You need to know this..... Acts 16:16-18.

Once when we were going to the place of prayer, we were met by a female slave
who had a spirit by which she predicted the future. She earned a great deal of money
for her owners by fortune-telling. She followed Paul and the rest of us, shouting,
“These men are servants of the Most High God, who are telling you the way to be saved.”
She kept this up for many days. Finally Paul became so annoyed that he turned around
and said to the spirit, “In the name of Jesus Christ I command you to come out of her!”
At that moment the spirit left her."

Get yourself an excellent pastor teacher and stick with the Word for the rest of your life.
Otherwise, you are just a servant girl of the devil.


I make no apologies. For you are in trouble, and have been troubling of Christians..... The Devil can show you Scripture.
But he can not show the insight needed to have it be one with you. All you have been displaying is that you are aware of what Scripture states in English. But you run away from having a sound understanding of it.... And, want us to play kick ball with your
misunderstanding.. And, then accuse us of lacking Christian love when we smell what is beneath the skin you cover yourself with.


The Holy Spirit came down upon Jesus like a dove. Not like a bolt of lightning! Jesus said he saw Satan cast down to earth like lightning....

I pray you find an excellent pastor to teach you God's ways that you have yet to understand.
So far you can not understand Genesis 3.



Isaiah 55:8-9
“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
and your ways are not My ways.”
This is the Lord’s declaration.
“For as heaven is higher than earth,
so My ways are higher than your ways,
and My thoughts than your thoughts.

No apologies for telling the truth...
........
your clearly evil with theese remarks
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,394
569
113
The "drawing" of God does not fix something, but gives a chance by pointing to God. All creation points to the Creator.

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
Drawing is the effectual working of Gods Power.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,394
569
113
I

I don't disagree. It was the point I was making.
I think that scripture alone proves regeneration before faith. The heart must be good to receive the word and understand it Spiritually and bring forth fruit, one fruit being Faith
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,394
569
113
Man still had the truth in them in there fallen state.

All tho they where dead in there trespasses they still had the truth in them.

I can show you this in scripture.

There reason they died was because sin entered into them.

But still they had the truth in them.

Which means God for knows everything in everyone and those whom are willing to repent.

Man is able to still believe in his fallen state because they still have the truth in them.

Regeneration is no different to being refined.

And all faith is refined.

And every sentence I quote here I can back up with scripture, if ye want me to show you.
Rabbit trail
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,511
6,705
113
62
I think that scripture alone proves regeneration before faith. The heart must be good to receive the word and understand it Spiritually and bring forth fruit, one fruit being Faith
I do too. I believe the pricking of the heart in Acts 2:37 is the circumcision of the heart.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,394
569
113
I do too. I believe the pricking of the heart in Acts 2:37 is the circumcision of the heart.
Yes I believe those subjects there in Acts 2:37 had already been made alive Spiritually, and they now sought Spiritual guidance which they would not have in a unregenerate state.
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
4,321
714
113
I do too. I believe the pricking of the heart in Acts 2:37 is the circumcision of the heart.
Yes I believe those subjects there in Acts 2:37 had already been made alive Spiritually, and they now sought Spiritual guidance which they would not have in a unregenerate state.
It came by HEARING the Gospel Preached first.