Can the nonelect ever be born-again? (2 Kings 22:27) With the elect thou wilt be elect: and with the perverse thou wilt be perverted.

[Charlie_2024]

There's more than enough here to prove that God is not exactly like men. But nothing here proves He knows everything, regardless of what men say.

You are making the positive claim that these texts prove God knows everything. Therefore the burden is yours to explain how each of these texts affirm exhaustive knowledge and foreknowledge. You merely citing verses and merely claiming they cannot but confirm your conclusions, is not you proving that they do. Define what is and is not included in "everything" in your claim that God knows everything, and then start with one or two and explain your reasoning that gets you from those texts to "God knows everything." as you define "everything".

Ephesians 1:4-5
4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,
Bible Gateway ....

Romans 8:28-30
28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. 29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.
Bible Gateway
141
John 6:44
44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.
Bible Gateway
130
John 15:16
16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.
Bible Gateway
99
2 Timothy 1:9
9 who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began,
Bible Gateway
99
Proverbs 16:4
4 The LORD has made everything for its purpose,
even the wicked for the day of trouble.
Bible Gateway
99
Acts 13:48
48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.
Bible Gateway
81
2 Peter 3:9
9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
Bible Gateway
75
1 Peter 1:20
20 He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you
Bible Gateway
72
Ephesians 1:4
4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
Bible Gateway
61
1 Peter 1:2
2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood:
May grace and peace be multiplied to you.
Bible Gateway
53
Matthew 22:14
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.”
Bible Gateway
51
Ephesians 1:11-12
11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, 12 so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory.
Bible Gateway
51
Galatians 1:15
15 But when he who had set me apart before I was born, and who called me by his grace,
Bible Gateway
45
Revelation 13:8
8 and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.
Bible Gateway
45
Acts 2:23
23 this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men.
Bible Gateway
42
Colossians 3:12
12 Put on then, as God’s chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassionate hearts, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience,
Bible Gateway
42
Romans 8:33
33 Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies.
Titus 1:1
1:1 Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, for the sake of the faith of God’s elect and their knowledge of the truth, which accords with godliness,
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40
Jeremiah 1:5
5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
and before you were born I consecrated you;
I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”
Bible Gateway
39

Dear Sir, I don't know how much clearer I can state the Bible truth that God knows everything about everything and more than that He causes everything that ever happened and everything that will happen.

He literally decreed and preordained everything from the beginning of time to the end of time.

Your question should be, "is there anything that God didn't foreknow and predestine". The answer is a very simple NO..............

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Dear Sir, I don't know how much clearer I can state the Bible truth that God knows everything about everything and more than that He causes everything that ever happened and everything that will happen.

He literally decreed and preordained everything from the beginning of time to the end of time.

Your question should be, "is there anything that God didn't foreknow and predestine". The answer is a very simple NO..............

are you saying God planned what every individual would do in there life since mankind was created.

 

[Charlie_2024]

are you saying God planned what every individual would do in there life since mankind was created.

Absolutely, He did plan our destiny and He set parameters and limits around each individual so everyone can only act within those boundaries.
We can't step outside of those boundaries, which include things like intellectual limits and limits on acting out wickedness, limits on what choices we can make and all the other important matters.

He doesn't cause the minor decisions we make like choosing the color of our socks. But He predetermined all the big ticket items in each individual. Likewise He gave everyone different gifts and weaknesses, but everything that comes to pass must obey His predetermined decree.

So all things will ultimately reach the conclusion that He ordered, and nobody can change a single thing. We see that God commanded Pharaoh to let His people go, but He also hardened his heart causing him not to release them.

To the casual observer, this looks like God is contradicting Himself by commanding him to do one thing whilst preventing him for obeying His command. That's just one example of many showing that God causes all things to happen as they do.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Absolutely, He did plan our destiny and He set parameters and limits around each individual so everyone can only act within those boundaries.
We can't step outside of those boundaries, which include things like intellectual limits and limits on acting out wickedness, limits on what choices we can make and all the other important matters.

He doesn't cause the minor decisions we make like choosing the color of our socks. But He predetermined all the big ticket items in each individual. Likewise He gave everyone different gifts and weaknesses, but everything that comes to pass must obey His predetermined decree.

So all things will ultimately reach the conclusion that He ordered, and nobody can change a single thing. We see that God commanded Pharaoh to let His people go, but He also hardened his heart causing him not to release them.

To the casual observer, this looks like God is contradicting Himself by commanding him to do one thing whilst preventing him for obeying His command. That's just one example of many showing that God causes all things to happen as they do.

I'm asking you if he controls what you will say next

 

[PaulThomson]

Dear Sir, I don't know how much clearer I can state the Bible truth that God knows everything about everything and more than that He causes everything that ever happened and everything that will happen.

He literally decreed and preordained everything from the beginning of time to the end of time.

Your question should be, "is there anything that God didn't foreknow and predestine". The answer is a very simple NO..............

He doesn't cause the minor decisions we make like choosing the color of our socks. But He predetermined all the big ticket items in each individual. Likewise He gave everyone different gifts and weaknesses, but everything that comes to pass must obey His predetermined decree.

You seem to want to have your cake and to eat it too. You say everything is everything; and then you say everything is only the big ticket items.

So, which is it. It can't be both.

 

[PaulThomson]

Butter the Fries?

Be the Friend?

Is it any of these?

Acronym Definition
BTF Before the Fire
BTF By the Foot (measurement)
BTF Below the Fold (publications)
BTF Brain Trauma Foundation
BTF Blessthefall (band)
BTF Brass to Face
BTF Back to the Future (movie)
BTF Berkshire Theatre Festival (Stockbridge, MA)
BTF Bally Total Fitness (various locations)
BTF Backyard Tire Fire (band)
BTF British Transport Films (UK)
BTF Biometrics Task Force (US Army)
BTF Binaytara Foundation (est. 2007)
BTF Block Trade Facility
BTF Better than Fiction
BTF Bidirectional Texture Function
BTF Blood Transfusion (more commonly seen as BT)
BTF Back to Front
BTF Big Thrill Factory (Minnesota)
BTF Behind the Firewall
BTF Buffalo Teachers Federation
BTF BizTalk Framework (Microsoft)
BTF Bridge Too Far
BTF Build To Forecast
BTF Business Task Force (various organizations)
BTF Balance Transfer Facility
BTF Biotechnology Facility
BTF Biotech Turnaround Fund (Netherlands)
BTF BACnet (Building Automation and Control Networking Protocol) Test Framework
BTF Bet The Farm (as in a bet the farm project for a company)
BTF Blue Torch Fab (off road vehicle fabricators)
BTF Bons du Trésor à Taux Fixe et à Intérêts Précomptés (French Government Bills)
BTF Big Tough Frogman (US Navy SEAL slang)
BTF Beyond the Floor (environment)
BTF Salt Lake Skypark (airport code)
BTF Boiler Tube Failure
BTF Behavioral Theory of the Firm
BTF Benzotrifuroxan (explosive)
BTF Black Terror Fighters (gaming clan)
BTF Brown Trunk Feet (height of palm tree exposed trunk)
BTF Bhangra Teams' Forum (est. 2008)
BTF Back to Fitness
BTF Bench Test Fixtures
BTF Brothers of True Fragging (Quake 2 gaming clan)
BTF Berwyn Talk Forum
BTF Bon Ton Fashionista (slogan)
BTF Beyond the Felt (poker forum)
BTF Better Than Factory (various organizations)
BTF Buy The Farm (to die or be killed)
BTF Biotechnology Technologist-Forensics (Fleming College; Ontario, Canada)
BTF Battalion Task Forces
BTF Bois des Trois Frontières (French wood supplier)
BTF BikeTechForums (motorcycle community)
BTF Buy-to-Fly Ratio (aviation industry)

No. I was seeking info without wanting to pigeon-hole. I achieved my goal; But I do admire curiosity.

 

[Charlie_2024]

I'm asking you if he controls what you will say next

No, if He did that then He would be responsible for the filth and lies men spew out. He is responsibly for the outcome of everyone's destiny. But He is not responsible for the sins they commit during the journey.

 

[Charlie_2024]

You seem to want to have your cake and to eat it too. You say everything is everything; and then you say everything is only the big ticket items.

So, which is it. It can't be both.

Well, if you want to knit pick and try that approach. Then I will make an exception for you let let you eat the cake. So yes, strictly speaking it is everything, because God needs to provide that guys next breath to facilitate him to choose the color of his underwear.

So if you want to get technical, God ultimately causes everything to happen exactly as it does. Because without Him, nothing would happen in the first place. Hope you feel better now

 

[Stan_the_Man]

But I do admire curiosity.

When I was a kid my mom used to say curiosity killed the cat.

One time I said it's a good thing I'm not a cat

I never saw the slap coming around the back side going up side my head!

 

[PaulThomson]

Well, if you want to knit pick and try that approach. Then I will make an exception for you let let you eat the cake. So yes, strictly speaking it is everything, because God needs to provide that guys next breath to facilitate him to choose the color of his underwear.

So if you want to get technical, God ultimately causes everything to happen exactly as it does. Because without Him, nothing would happen in the first place. Hope you feel better now

It's not nitpicking to point out you were espousing both of two contrary positions.

So, do you believe that the reason God knows absolutely everything is because he has planned absolutely everything and has caused absolutely everything, including what colour socks you will wear today, or whether you won't wear socks? Or do you want to take some other position?

 

[Charlie_2024]

It's not nitpicking to point out you were espousing both of two contrary positions.

So, do you believe that the reason God knows absolutely everything is because he has planned absolutely everything and has caused absolutely everything, including what colour socks you will wear today, or whether you won't wear socks? Or do you want to take some other position?

You summed it up perfectly well, I didn't want to shock anyone with the awful truth but you did a great job on my behalf. So I thank you for helping and I commend you for the bravery you exhibited in doing so.

I apologize for jumping to conclusions about your motives. I now see your intentions were good and your heart was in the right place. I tend to pass judgement on people before I hear everything they have to say.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

No, if He did that then He would be responsible for the filth and lies men spew out. He is responsibly for the outcome of everyone's destiny. But He is not responsible for the sins they commit during the journey.

Of so how could he have chose you to be saved befor the fall then

 

[Charlie_2024]

Of so how could he have chose you to be saved befor the fall then

He can do it because He is almighty and we don't understand how or why but it is evident He did chose those He elected to save and those He elected to be reprobate.

Nobody can get into the mind of God to find out why He does what He does. the parable of the workers in the vineyard is a good example. The keeper hired workers early in the morning and others in the afternoon but he paid them all equally.

When those who were hired early in the morning complained about why they got the same wages, the keeper said " I paid you the wages we agreed on, so let me do what I want with my own money". but they hated him for it anyway.

That's a parable about pious religious people who have been attending Church every Sunday for their entire lives, complaining to God about why He gave the same reward to the old prostitute who repented and was saved and received the same reward as the "holier than thou" pious religious people.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

He can do it because He is almighty and we don't understand how or why but it is evident He did chose those He elected to save and those He elected to be reprobate.

Nobody can get into the mind of God to find out why He does what He does. the parable of the workers in the vineyard is a good example. The keeper hired workers early in the morning and others in the afternoon but he paid them all equally.

When those who were hired early in the morning complained about why they got the same wages, the keeper said " I paid you the wages we agreed on, so let me do what I want with my own money". but they hated him for it anyway.

That's a parable about pious religious people who have been attending Church every Sunday for their entire lives, complaining to God about why He gave the same reward to the old prostitute who repented and was saved and received the same reward as the "holier than thou" pious religious people.

honestly I give up with you friend

Your now saying he elected people to be reprobates before they where born to


Fantastic

 

[PaulThomson]

He can do it because He is almighty and we don't understand how or why but it is evident He did chose those He elected to save and those He elected to be reprobate.

Nobody can get into the mind of God to find out why He does what He does. the parable of the workers in the vineyard is a good example. The keeper hired workers early in the morning and others in the afternoon but he paid them all equally.

When those who were hired early in the morning complained about why they got the same wages, the keeper said " I paid you the wages we agreed on, so let me do what I want with my own money". but they hated him for it anyway.

That's a parable about pious religious people who have been attending Church every Sunday for their entire lives, complaining to God about why He gave the same reward to the old prostitute who repented and was saved and received the same reward as the "holier than thou" pious religious people.

No, it isn't "evident".

The Spirit of God knows the mind of God. And the Spirit of God reveals God's mind to us. Non-calvinists can know why God does the things he does. The problem calvinists have is they can't explain why God does what he doesn't do., but they say he does do. So they plead mystery.

The parable is about God giving daily needs, including salvation, to whoever responds to his call at whatever stage of life.

 

[Charlie_2024]

No, it isn't "evident".

The Spirit of God knows the mind of God. And the Spirit of God reveals God's mind to us. Non-calvinists can know why God does the things he does. The problem calvinists have is they can't explain why God does what he doesn't do., but they say he does do. So they plead mystery.

The parable is about God giving daily needs, including salvation, to whoever responds to his call at whatever stage of life.

OK, so God is a liar now according to you. Now deal with the truth and stop twisting Gods Word, you bring condemnation on yourself when you do that.
God said, my was as infinitely higher than yours. They are past finding out. I have hidden the truth from them. And you come along like some kind of self appointed know it all and say you can get into His mind, give me a break!

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

OK, so God is a liar now according to you. Now deal with the truth and stop twisting Gods Word, you bring condemnation on yourself when you do that.
God said, my was as infinitely higher than yours. They are past finding out. I have hidden the truth from them. And you come along like some kind of self appointed know it all and say you can get into His mind, give me a break!

do you know what pride before the fall means

 

[PaulThomson]

OK, so God is a liar now according to you. Now deal with the truth and stop twisting Gods Word, you bring condemnation on yourself when you do that.
God said, my was as infinitely higher than yours. They are past finding out. I have hidden the truth from them. And you come along like some kind of self appointed know it all and say you can get into His mind, give me a break!

Or maybe you are calling God a liar.

1 Cor. 2:11 For what man knoweth thet things of a man, save the spirit of the man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, bit the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words that man's wisdom teaches, buy which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the carnal man receives not the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness ro him; neither can he know them because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who has known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

Exhaustive divine predeterminists are among the carnal ones Paul is referring to here. They keep telling everyone that no one can know God's mind and ways, as a way to excuse their inability to explain their philosophical musings, and yet they write voluminous tomes explaining how they understand God's mind and ways function. They have to write so much to backfill all the logical and hermeneutical gaps in their unbiblical philosophy that derive from false a priori assumptions.

Yes, God's ways are higher than ours. That's why He gives the Holy Spirit to reveal His ways to us.

 

[Charlie_2024]

do you know what pride before the fall means

No, I'm not afflicted with that disease. There's no such thing as a proud Christian. We don't take part in pride marches

 

[Charlie_2024]

Or maybe you are calling God a liar.

1 Cor. 2:11 For what man knoweth thet things of a man, save the spirit of the man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, bit the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words that man's wisdom teaches, buy which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the carnal man receives not the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness ro him; neither can he know them because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who has known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

Exhaustive divine predeterminists are among the carnal ones Paul is referring to here. They keep telling everyone that no one can know God's mind and ways, as a way to excuse their inability to explain their philosophical musings, and yet they write voluminous tomes explaining how they understand God's mind and ways function. They have to write so much to backfill all the logical and hermeneutical gaps in their unbiblical philosophy that derive from false a priori assumptions.

Yes, God's ways are higher than ours. That's why He gives the Holy Spirit to reveal His ways to us.

The problem you have, is he Holy Spirit gives us a few crumbs to chew on and a bit of milk and that's it. So that means that we know next to nothing about God. He just instructed us to shut up and listen and don't ask dumb questions for which you're not equipped to handle the answers to.

The great Tom Cruise summed it up best in a movie when he said "you can't handle the truth". You should take his advice and stop pretending you know something about God, that everyone else doesn't. He's a mystery, all we have is the few crumbs and a bit of milk so stop pretending that you have a juicy steak while the rest of us have crumbs.

I bet you don't even know the basics, like God is a jealous God, He hates most people, He doesn't love anyone apart from Himself, and those in His Son.