Can the nonelect ever be born-again? (2 Kings 22:27) With the elect thou wilt be elect: and with the perverse thou wilt be perverted.

[Charlie_2024]

I'm not looking to deny God's word. I am looking to see what it actually says that agrees with your explanation of it, and what in your explanation the text does not say, but you have assumed it is saying.

So, what do you think is the meaning of the Eph 1:4-6 passage? Which of the TULIP doctrines are you claiming it declares? And where do you see TULIP clearly stated in the passage?

The passage proves TULIP as true biblical doctrine. It shows

T totally depraved sinners, being added to the body of Christ. It shows

U unconditional election, (undeserved grace) not by works as your camp teach.

L limited atonement, that shows that God chose a limited number to be joined to His body, unlike you (name it and claim it, universalism) where everyone is added to the body and hell doesn't exist heresy.

I irresistible grace, means God's elect won't be able to resist His grace which causes them to embrace the gospel and obey it.

P perseverance of the Saints, means God's elect can never fall away and lose His salvation. Because He is the One who keeps us and nothing can snatch us from His hand.

As you can see, TULIP, or the five points of Calvinism, summarizes God’s work of salvation, and it highlights the omnipotent love of God. Christians can rest assured that if they believe, it is because of the work of God, and that work cannot fail because His love cannot fail.

 

[Charlie_2024]

Where did I say, "The Lord Jesus was a sinner who needed to be chosen for salvation" ? There is no "being chosen for salvation" in the passage under discussion. There is being chosen to be holy and blameless before God in love."

OK, I must have missed the part where it says the we are chosen for hellfire. What else, would that verse be talking about. Perhaps we're chosen to visit Disneyland or something. You've really confused me now

 

[PaulThomson]

The passage proves TULIP as true biblical doctrine. It shows

T totally depraved sinners, being added to the body of Christ. It shows

U unconditional election, (undeserved grace) not by works as your camp teach.

L limited atonement, that shows that God chose a limited number to be joined to His body, unlike you (name it and claim it, universalism) where everyone is added to the body and hell doesn't exist heresy.

I irresistible grace, means God's elect won't be able to resist His grace which causes them to embrace the gospel and obey it.

P perseverance of the Saints, means God's elect can never fall away and lose His salvation. Because He is the One who keeps us and nothing can snatch us from His hand.

As you can see, TULIP, or the five points of Calvinism, summarizes God’s work of salvation, and it highlights the omnipotent love of God. Christians can rest assured that if they believe, it is because of the work of God, and that work cannot fail because His love cannot fail.

You are making a series of assertions about what the text is saying, but you have not shown where in the text these things are referenced.

Which words in the text convey the idea of total depravity? I don't see any.

Which words in the text convey the idea of unconditional election? I don't see any.

Which words in the text convey the idea of limited atonement? I don't see any.

Which words in the text convey the idea of irresistible grace I don't see any.

Which words in the text convey the idea of perseverance of the saints? I don't see any.

Where do you see them?

 

[PaulThomson]

OK, I must have missed the part where it says the we are chosen for hellfire. What else, would that verse be talking about. Perhaps we're chosen to visit Disneyland or something. You've really confused me now

I do not see chosen to salvation anywhere in Eph 1. Where do you see it? You are assuming it for some reason.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

There's nothing mysterious about God saying, it's not good for man to be alone and creating the animal kingdom and Eve for company. Are you suggesting that God created there's things to save Adam from His sin. That's a ridiculous suggestion

oh ok, so no part of you, recognises God the father saying it's not Good for man to be alone means God is always going to be a father to his children

 

[John146]

The passage proves TULIP as true biblical doctrine. It shows

T totally depraved sinners, being added to the body of Christ. It shows

U unconditional election, (undeserved grace) not by works as your camp teach.

L limited atonement, that shows that God chose a limited number to be joined to His body, unlike you (name it and claim it, universalism) where everyone is added to the body and hell doesn't exist heresy.

I irresistible grace, means God's elect won't be able to resist His grace which causes them to embrace the gospel and obey it.

P perseverance of the Saints, means God's elect can never fall away and lose His salvation. Because He is the One who keeps us and nothing can snatch us from His hand.

As you can see, TULIP, or the five points of Calvinism, summarizes God’s work of salvation, and it highlights the omnipotent love of God. Christians can rest assured that if they believe, it is because of the work of God, and that work cannot fail because His love cannot fail.

Maybe the better question might be, "Can the elect be saved even though they are enemies of the gospel?" (concerning the nation of Israel)

Romans 11:
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

 

[Charlie_2024]

You are making a series of assertions about what the text is saying, but you have not shown where in the text these things are referenced.

Which words in the text convey the idea of total depravity? I don't see any.

Which words in the text convey the idea of unconditional election? I don't see any.

Which words in the text convey the idea of limited atonement? I don't see any.

Which words in the text convey the idea of irresistible grace I don't see any.

Which words in the text convey the idea of perseverance of the saints? I don't see any.

Where do you see them?

All you have to do is use your brain and connect the dots and the whole picture magically appears in your face.

 

[Charlie_2024]

I do not see chosen to salvation anywhere in Eph 1. Where do you see it? You are assuming it for some reason.

If you look hard enough you will find it, but then again God said, "they will diligently seek Me but I will hide from them" and the things of God are foolishness to those who are perishing. Hope this helps

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

If you look hard enough you will find it, but then again God said, "they will diligently seek Me but I will hide from them" and the things of God are foolishness to those who are perishing. Hope this helps

yes man will all hide from God because there all like Adam.

Born into a fallen state

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

First of all, it is evident you don't even know what Calvinism and Arminianism is about. It's also obvious you don't want to know the the awful truth about the matter, because you would be forced to choose a side. We all know ignorance is bliss, I'm not here to spoil the party for anyone.

But the our position on this is essential, as it get's to the heart of theology. These two present different God's, before us. We can't choose to believe in both God's as they contradict each other. One God says, you are saved by your works and the other says, I save My elect for my own good pleasure and I leave the rest in their sin.

lol he's a minister and a pastor, i dont think your comment will bother him

 

[Charlie_2024]

oh ok, so no part of you, recognises God the father saying it's not Good for man to be alone means God is always going to be a father to his children

Allow me to blow that theory out of the water with a big cannon. His children are only the elect, the rest of humanity are all the Devils children and Gods not with them., He has given them over to the Devil to do whatever He wants to them and we know what He does. He came to kill, steal and destroy.
These people have nothing but God's condemnation and His wrath abides on them, from the time they're born and for all eternity. So yeah, no love in any of that. Your welcome to have another stab if you have any fire power left.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Allow me to blow that theory out of the water with a big cannon. His children are only the elect, the rest of humanity are all the Devils children and Gods not with them., He has given them over to the Devil to do whatever He wants to them and we know what He does. He came to kill, steal and destroy.
These people have nothing but God's condemnation and His wrath abides on them, from the time they're born and for all eternity. So yeah, no love in any of that. Your welcome to have another stab if you have any fire power left.

honestly I have only been trying to stop you going away on needless rabbit trails after ive spoke to you.

As when you of on rabbit trails you also go of on tangents.

 

[Charlie_2024]

Maybe the better question might be, "Can the elect be saved even though they are enemies of the gospel?" (concerning the nation of Israel)

Romans 11:
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Those verses fit like a square peg in a round hole. You can only apply scriptures which are relevant.

Israel was under the old covenant, so you can't apply them to the Church. Their sins were never permanently dealt with, burned offerings only atoned for their sins temporarily. They had to keep burning their animals all the time, until Jesus put an end to the old covenant.

I am the Israel of God and so is every other elect Saint of God, from the beginning of time to the present and all future Saints which haven't been born yet. All of Gods elect are the Israel of Go, regardless of ethnicity or gender. We are Gods chosen people, we have Saints from every African tribe, Arabic tribe, Asian tribe, European tribe, Indian tribe and very other ethnic group you can think of.

God is not a racist like most Christians believe Him to be, He created a large variety of people.

 

[Charlie_2024]

lol he's a minister and a pastor, i dont think your comment will bother him

I can download a Ministers and Pastors certificate off the deep web and pose as a senior theologian.

So yeah, a Minister is not one who claims to be one but one who is qualified. I saw he was clueless because he doesn't even know what the bible doctrines of election and predestination are about

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

I can download a Ministers and Pastors certificate off the deep web and pose as a senior theologian.

So yeah, a Minister is not one who claims to be one but one who is qualified. I saw he was clueless because he doesn't even know what the bible doctrines of election and predestination are about

do you know God keeps every man captive before being saved and after being saved

 

[Charlie_2024]

do you know God keeps every man captive before being saved and after being saved

Yes I know God is sovereign over all things, now you can keep adding to the (all) list for all eternity and you will still be at square one.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Yes I know God is sovereign over all things, now you can keep adding to the (all) list for all eternity and you will still be at square one.

This doesn't answer the question.

Does God keep all man captive before being saved and after

 

[John146]

Those verses fit like a square peg in a round hole. You can only apply scriptures which are relevant.

Israel was under the old covenant, so you can't apply them to the Church. Their sins were never permanently dealt with, burned offerings only atoned for their sins temporarily. They had to keep burning their animals all the time, until Jesus put an end to the old covenant.

I am the Israel of God and so is every other elect Saint of God, from the beginning of time to the present and all future Saints which haven't been born yet. All of Gods elect are the Israel of Go, regardless of ethnicity or gender. We are Gods chosen people, we have Saints from every African tribe, Arabic tribe, Asian tribe, European tribe, Indian tribe and very other ethnic group you can think of.

God is not a racist like most Christians believe Him to be, He created a large variety of people.

As concerning the gospel, Israel is an enemy. But to God, they are beloved for the elect's sake. God elected the nation of Israel to serve his purpose in bringing forth the seed, the Messiah. Election is never to salvation, but service. The RCC priest, John Calvin, was a false teacher.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

I can download a Ministers and Pastors certificate off the deep web and pose as a senior theologian.

So yeah, a Minister is not one who claims to be one but one who is qualified. I saw he was clueless because he doesn't even know what the bible doctrines of election and predestination are about

The problem is Charlie you haven't even been a believer of tulip very long,.you told me as much last week.

Secondly Charlie you approved the idea that linking total depravity with grace is a recipe for disaster.

And now your back tracking on your word.

The doctrine of tulip is a man made label.

And as you can see a flower has been used to define something horrible like total depravity.

Common on Charlie, who in the right mind looks at a flower and thinks total depravity

 

[Charlie_2024]

This doesn't answer the question.

Does God keep all man captive before being saved and after

This is a trick question, so the answer is yes and no. Yes God does keep all men are captive, before and after the fall. But the elect are free in Christ, after regeneration.

So we are still technically captive, but we are free to do Gods will in Christ. So we are free and slave at the same time.

I know you're gonna try to wiggle out of my headlock, but I will not let you go