Daniel and four kingdoms

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,148
5,722
113
#1
In about 600-700 bc when babylon has risen up to power over the regions of the ancient world including Jerusalem . daniel sees a series of vision of what’s began to happen and going to happen later to Jerusalem according to thier covenant breaking he’s speaking to nebucadnezzar king of Babylon who’s the most powerful king on earth at this time.

Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory. And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold. ( first kingdom to rule )



And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, ( Persia began to rule afterwards )

and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth. ( Greece and Alexander the Great )

And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.

…..And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: ( the preaching of the kingdom of God ) and the kingdom shall not be left to other people,

but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.”( the kingdom of God ) ‭‭Daniel‬ ‭2:37-40, 44‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So the dream was about four kingdoms that would rise up to world power beginning with Babylon and nebucadnezzar.

later daniel sees a vision that is giving him more details and understanding of these four kingdoms the fourth which would be dreadful and terrible and destroy , this isn’t a seperate narrative but is offering variance of the same for added understanding

“And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.

The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings:

…And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear,

….. After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.

After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots:

and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.”
‭‭Daniel‬ ‭7:3-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So Daniel now saw four beasts and one had four heads ( 7 heads total ) thier appearance was of a lion , bear and a leopard which had four heads and is given dominion and then another great and powerful beast with ten horns rising up after that having the seventh head. But he doesn’t understand the vision so he asks

“I came near unto one of them that stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me, and made me know the interpretation of the things.

These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, ( one has four heads ) which shall arise out of the earth.

Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet;

and of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.

I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them; Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.”
‭‭Daniel‬ ‭7:16-17, 19-21, 23-25‬ ‭

So he’s told more details about these four kingdoms he’s seeing and interpreting . He then sees another vision of more details regarding some of those kingdoms that are coming after Babylon like media Persia and Greece and Alexander the Great and his four generals who’s ruled four regions of his empire after his death and led into the Roman Empire the powerful nation that destroyed Jerusalem and it’s sanctuary in 70 ad

“The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia. And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king. ( Alexander the Great ) Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, ( his four generals ) four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, ( the four heads of the leopard )but not in his power.

And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up. And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.”
‭‭Daniel‬ ‭8:20-24‬ ‭

later he hears more about those times

“And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. ( Jerusalem trodden down until the times are fulfilled )

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: ( 7 figurative days ) and in the midst of the week ( 3 and a half figurative days ) he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.”
‭‭Daniel‬ ‭9:26-27‬ ‭KJV‬‬


about appx seven hundred years after that Jesus speaking about the destruction of Jerusalem and its temple by rome

“But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake. And it shall turn to you for a testimony.

And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

Then let them which are in Judæa flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭21:12-13, 20-22, 24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

remember what Daniel had heard seven hundred years before that when Babylon the first kingdom of the four began to rule

“shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.”

daniels prophetic visions lead from Babylon to media Persia to Greece and its dividing into four then leading up to Romes dominion in the days of the gospel and the destruction of Jerusalem and its temple in 70 ad corresponding to Christs first coming and the gospel when the law and prophets were fulfilled

The law and the prophets were until John:

since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The prophecies foretold for the future in the New Testament corresponding to Christs second coming is what we’re looking forward to Christs return and establishing his kingdom on the renewed earth
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,932
1,262
113
Australia
#2
Can you see how God repeats and expands the amount of information in the prophesies.

Dan 2 the image
gold head = Babylon
Silver = Medo persian
Brass = greese
Iron = Rome
Iron and clay = divided Europe.

Dan 7 repeats these kingdoms with more detail. With lots of information about the little horn.

Dan 8 repeats it again but Babylon is not included.

When Rev was written the Iron kingdom of Rome was ruling. The 70 weeks were over. And the gospel was being preached to anyone that would hear. Dan 9: 24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

They failed and the 70 weeks ended for Israel.

Daniel is like a key to unlock Revelation.

Little horn is the power that came up out of Rome

Dan 7:8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

It will come up among the 10 kings....
It will uproot 3 of them....
It will be different and change times and laws...
It will rule for 1260 years...

There is only one kingdom that fits perfectly....

Who do you think this little horn power is?

I agree with almost all the protestant reformers.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,776
113
#3
daniels prophetic visions lead from Babylon to media Persia to Greece and its dividing into four then leading up to Romes dominion in the days of the gospel and the destruction of Jerusalem and its temple in 70 ad corresponding to Christs first coming and the gospel when the law and prophets were fulfilled
What about corresponding to Christ's Second Coming? This only takes us to the original Roman empire. You needed to add that the "revived" Roman Empire" (probably ten European nations which presently exist) will exist at the time when the Antichrist ("the Little Horn of Daniel) rules the world in the future. Probably Spain, Portugal. England, France, Germany, Italy, Austria, Czech Republic, Romania, Hungary, and Bulgaria. He will be involved with them and then destroy them.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,148
5,722
113
#4
Can you see how God repeats and expands the amount of information in the prophesies.

Dan 2 the image
gold head = Babylon
Silver = Medo persian
Brass = greese
Iron = Rome
Iron and clay = divided Europe.

Dan 7 repeats these kingdoms with more detail. With lots of information about the little horn.

Dan 8 repeats it again but Babylon is not included.

When Rev was written the Iron kingdom of Rome was ruling. The 70 weeks were over. And the gospel was being preached to anyone that would hear. Dan 9: 24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

They failed and the 70 weeks ended for Israel.

Daniel is like a key to unlock Revelation.

Little horn is the power that came up out of Rome

Dan 7:8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

It will come up among the 10 kings....
It will uproot 3 of them....
It will be different and change times and laws...
It will rule for 1260 years...

There is only one kingdom that fits perfectly....

Who do you think this little horn power is?

I agree with almost all the protestant reformers.
“Can you see how God repeats and expands the amount of information in the prophesies.”

yes that’s what this post is meant to highlight that Daniel wasn’t seeing many different things but was seeing many aspects of the same things

“They failed and the 70 weeks ended for Israel.”

yes the seventy weeks was about isreal repenting and accepting the messiah annointing him king they went the other way and rejected accused and crucified him which brought thier desolation upon them

“But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.

But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance. And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.

When the Lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen? They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons. ….Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭21:37-41, 43‬ ‭KJV‬‬

yes the little horn is understood in revelation to be the eighth king tbat is of the seven and returns a second time with ten minion kings serving his Will three of those ten will fall before him and seven will remain with him to the end of his rule when Christ destroys him
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,148
5,722
113
#5
What about corresponding to Christ's Second Coming? This only takes us to the original Roman empire. You needed to add that the "revived" Roman Empire" (probably ten European nations which presently exist) will exist at the time when the Antichrist ("the Little Horn of Daniel) rules the world in the future. Probably Spain, Portugal. England, France, Germany, Italy, Austria, Czech Republic, Romania, Hungary, and Bulgaria. He will be involved with them and then destroy them.
What about corresponding to Christ's Second Coming?

christs second coming is found In The nt prophecy like this

“and to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; when he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe in that day.”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭1:7-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

in the old testement everything is corresponding to his first coming to Israel as thier messiah promised king that was the culmination of thier tewtement the messiah came

The new is waiting for his return as he promised in the New Testament everything corresponds to the testament it belongs to is what I’m saying each testament is based upon the coming of the messiah the first with his firet coming corresponding to the ot prophets wotness that he would come

“Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭7:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭9:6

“Behold, the Lord GOD will come with strong hand, and his arm shall rule for him: behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him. He shall feed his flock like a shepherd: he shall gather the lambs with his arm, and carry them in his bosom, and shall gently lead those that are with young.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭40:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

In the latter end of the prophets

Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts. But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:”
‭‭Malachi‬ ‭3:1-2‬ ‭

that’s how the prophets end with a promise of John the Baptist and Jesus arriving

and then they start to be fulfilled

The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;

As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, Which shall prepare thy way before thee. The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, Make his paths straight.

John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan. And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him: and there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. ( the son of God who’s been promised has arrived )


Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:1-4, 9-11, 14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

in the new teerement you find new prophecy about Jesus returning to earth begining with what he taught about it and then leading into the added details the apostles give in the epistles regarding his return

the messiahs coming concludes each testament. He would come once to bear sin and will return with salvation at the culmination of this new eternal covenant each testement has its own prophecies
 
Dec 27, 2018
1,642
164
63
#6
In about 600-700 bc when babylon has risen up to power over the regions of the ancient world including Jerusalem . daniel sees a series of vision of what’s began to happen and going to happen later to Jerusalem according to thier covenant breaking he’s speaking to nebucadnezzar king of Babylon who’s the most powerful king on earth at this time.

Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory. And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold. ( first kingdom to rule )



And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, ( Persia began to rule afterwards )

and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth. ( Greece and Alexander the Great )

And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.

…..And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: ( the preaching of the kingdom of God ) and the kingdom shall not be left to other people,

but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.”( the kingdom of God ) ‭‭Daniel‬ ‭2:37-40, 44‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So the dream was about four kingdoms that would rise up to world power beginning with Babylon and nebucadnezzar.

later daniel sees a vision that is giving him more details and understanding of these four kingdoms the fourth which would be dreadful and terrible and destroy , this isn’t a seperate narrative but is offering variance of the same for added understanding

“And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.

The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings:

…And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear,

….. After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.

After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots:

and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.”
‭‭Daniel‬ ‭7:3-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So Daniel now saw four beasts and one had four heads ( 7 heads total ) thier appearance was of a lion , bear and a leopard which had four heads and is given dominion and then another great and powerful beast with ten horns rising up after that having the seventh head. But he doesn’t understand the vision so he asks

“I came near unto one of them that stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me, and made me know the interpretation of the things.

These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, ( one has four heads ) which shall arise out of the earth.

Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet;

and of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.

I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them; Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.”
‭‭Daniel‬ ‭7:16-17, 19-21, 23-25‬ ‭

So he’s told more details about these four kingdoms he’s seeing and interpreting . He then sees another vision of more details regarding some of those kingdoms that are coming after Babylon like media Persia and Greece and Alexander the Great and his four generals who’s ruled four regions of his empire after his death and led into the Roman Empire the powerful nation that destroyed Jerusalem and it’s sanctuary in 70 ad

“The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia. And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king. ( Alexander the Great ) Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, ( his four generals ) four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, ( the four heads of the leopard )but not in his power.

And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up. And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.”
‭‭Daniel‬ ‭8:20-24‬ ‭

later he hears more about those times

“And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. ( Jerusalem trodden down until the times are fulfilled )

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: ( 7 figurative days ) and in the midst of the week ( 3 and a half figurative days ) he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.”
‭‭Daniel‬ ‭9:26-27‬ ‭KJV‬‬


about appx seven hundred years after that Jesus speaking about the destruction of Jerusalem and its temple by rome

“But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake. And it shall turn to you for a testimony.

And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

Then let them which are in Judæa flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭21:12-13, 20-22, 24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

remember what Daniel had heard seven hundred years before that when Babylon the first kingdom of the four began to rule

“shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.”

daniels prophetic visions lead from Babylon to media Persia to Greece and its dividing into four then leading up to Romes dominion in the days of the gospel and the destruction of Jerusalem and its temple in 70 ad corresponding to Christs first coming and the gospel when the law and prophets were fulfilled

The law and the prophets were until John:

since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The prophecies foretold for the future in the New Testament corresponding to Christs second coming is what we’re looking forward to Christs return and establishing his kingdom on the renewed earth

Rome wasn't even the largest empire of its own time.So much for being a world power.
 

stilllearning

Well-known member
Oct 4, 2021
582
298
63
#8
Rome wasn't even the largest empire of its own time.So much for being a world power.
He nailed that and did bring up a salient point that shows what God is doing. God has a way of making a show in the open of our enemy. In spiritual warfare God has openly defeated the principalities and powers of this world. You can plainly see how God was doing so and defeating the gods of the ancient superpowers.

Egypt the superpower of it's time God defeated their gods in the ten plagues. Assyria the superpower of it's day they made the claim that no god had defeated them. The angel of the Lord sent them home minus their army. Babylon the superpower of it's day 3 Hebrews stood openly in the flame with a 4th person. God humbled a king and made him eat grass.

Persia the superpower of it's day, God shut the mouth of loins and by way of Ester saved his people. Greece the superpower of it's day gave the Jews a new holiday to celebrate. Rome the superpower of it's day Christ crushed the head of the serpent. So his comment is just pointing out what God is openly doing and smacking around the god of this world.
 
Feb 9, 2019
73
81
18
#9
Can you see how God repeats and expands the amount of information in the prophesies.

Dan 2 the image
gold head = Babylon
Silver = Medo persian
Brass = greese
Iron = Rome
Iron and clay = divided Europe.

Dan 7 repeats these kingdoms with more detail. With lots of information about the little horn.

Dan 8 repeats it again but Babylon is not included.

When Rev was written the Iron kingdom of Rome was ruling. The 70 weeks were over. And the gospel was being preached to anyone that would hear. Dan 9: 24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

They failed and the 70 weeks ended for Israel.

Daniel is like a key to unlock Revelation.

Little horn is the power that came up out of Rome

Dan 7:8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

It will come up among the 10 kings....
It will uproot 3 of them....
It will be different and change times and laws...
It will rule for 1260 years...

There is only one kingdom that fits perfectly....

Who do you think this little horn power is?

I agree with almost all the protestant reformers.
I think the little horn is the antichrist.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,932
1,262
113
Australia
#11
Dan 7
The 4th beast has 10 horns...

Pagan Rome was eventually divided into the 10 roving barbarian tribes that swept in upon the Roman Empire and carved out land niches for their people

Visigoths - Spain
Anglo-Saxons - England
Franks - France
Alemani - Germany
Burgundians - Switzerland
Lombards - Italy
Suevi - Portugal
Heruli - Rooted up
Ostrogoths - Rooted up
Vandals - Rooted up

I was considering the horns, and there was another horn, a little one, coming up among them, before whom three of the first horns were plucked out by the roots. And there, in this horn, were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking pompous words” (Daniel 7:8).

The “little horn” power appears next. We must identify it carefully because the biblical characteristics identify it as the antichrist of prophecy and history. There must be no mistake in making this identification.

God’s Word gives us nine characteristics of the antichrist in Daniel 7 so we can be certain of his identity.

A. The little horn would come “up among them”—that is, from among the 10 horns that were the kingdoms of Western Europe (Daniel 7:8). So it would be a little kingdom somewhere in Western Europe.

B. It would have a man at its head who could speak for it (Daniel 7:8).

C. It would pluck out or uproot three kingdoms (Daniel 7:8).

D. It would be different from the other 10 kingdoms (Daniel 7:24).

E. It would make war with and persecute the saints (Daniel 7:21, 25).

F. It would emerge from the pagan Roman Empire—the fourth kingdom (Daniel 7:7, 8).

G. God’s people (the saints) would “be given into his hand” for “a time and times and half a time” (Daniel 7:25).

H. It would “speak great words against” or blaspheme God (Daniel 7:25 KJV). In Revelation 13:5, the Bible says the same power speaks “great things and blasphemies.”

I. It would “intend to change times and law” (Daniel 7:25).

Don’t forget—all these identification points come directly from the Bible.
 
Feb 9, 2019
73
81
18
#12
I agree

And who is the antichrist?
I think he will be a man in the seven year tribulation that will be possessed by satan. He will rule the world. I think there will be a counterfeit Trinity: God the Father, satan or the dragon; the Son, the antichrist; and the Holy Spirit, the false prophet.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,932
1,262
113
Australia
#13
I think he will be a man in the seven year tribulation that will be possessed by satan. He will rule the world. I think there will be a counterfeit Trinity: God the Father, satan or the dragon; the Son, the antichrist; and the Holy Spirit, the false prophet.
There will definitely be false Christ's and deceptions... the devil is the chief of lies.

Our only safety is the word of God..
Psa 119:105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
Joh 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
2Ti 3:16-17
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

If it controdicts the bible you know it is from the devil.
 
Dec 27, 2018
1,642
164
63
#14
He nailed that and did bring up a salient point that shows what God is doing. God has a way of making a show in the open of our enemy. In spiritual warfare God has openly defeated the principalities and powers of this world. You can plainly see how God was doing so and defeating the gods of the ancient superpowers.

Egypt the superpower of it's time God defeated their gods in the ten plagues. Assyria the superpower of it's day they made the claim that no god had defeated them. The angel of the Lord sent them home minus their army. Babylon the superpower of it's day 3 Hebrews stood openly in the flame with a 4th person. God humbled a king and made him eat grass.

Persia the superpower of it's day, God shut the mouth of loins and by way of Ester saved his people. Greece the superpower of it's day gave the Jews a new holiday to celebrate. Rome the superpower of it's day Christ crushed the head of the serpent. So his comment is just pointing out what God is openly doing and smacking around the god of this world.
Rome was not the super power of its day.
Rome came in a close second though.

The Han dynasty in China was the super power of its day.It both covered more land and population than Rome
 

2ndTimeIsTheCharm

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2023
1,933
1,119
113
#15
Rome was not the super power of its day.
Rome came in a close second though.

The Han dynasty in China was the super power of its day.It both covered more land and population than Rome

The Bible doesn't talk about what God did with China though. I'm sure He did stuff concerning China, but He wants us to focus on what He did with the superpowers mentioned in the Bible.


🏖️
 
Dec 27, 2018
1,642
164
63
#16
The Bible doesn't talk about what God did with China though. I'm sure He did stuff concerning China, but He wants us to focus on what He did with the superpowers mentioned in the Bible.


🏖️

That's just it
The bible does not say Rome is a fourth beast.

That's is someone's interpretation.Not the word of God.
I read about the little horn about everyday in the news.Hes not where everyone thinks he is.He is exactly where the Bible says he is.
 

2ndTimeIsTheCharm

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2023
1,933
1,119
113
#17
That's just it
The bible does not say Rome is a fourth beast.

That's is someone's interpretation.Not the word of God.
I read about the little horn about everyday in the news.Hes not where everyone thinks he is.He is exactly where the Bible says he is.

The antichrist is in China??? How can he fight himself when the kings of the East cross the dried up Euphrates River to fight him???


🏖️
 
Dec 27, 2018
1,642
164
63
#18
The antichrist is in China??? How can he fight himself when the kings of the East cross the dried up Euphrates River to fight him???


🏖️
The little horn has nothing to do with China or Rome.Neither of them was the forth beast.You were willing to ignore the Han dinasty because it was not in the area you thought the fourth beast should reside even though the Han dynasty was greater than the roman empire.But you never thought for a minute Rome may not have been seated in the area where the forth beast would be.


The little horn is exactly where the Bible says he is.He is not in Rome nor China.
 

2ndTimeIsTheCharm

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2023
1,933
1,119
113
#19
The little horn has nothing to do with China or Rome.Neither of them was the forth beast.You were willing to ignore the Han dinasty because it was not in the area you thought the fourth beast should reside even though the Han dynasty was greater than the roman empire.But you never thought for a minute Rome may not have been seated in the area where the forth beast would be.

The little horn is exactly where the Bible says he is.He is not in Rome nor China.
Okay, so where is he?


🏖️
 
Dec 27, 2018
1,642
164
63
#20
Okay, so where is he?


🏖️
He's in the pleasant land.He arrived there in the 1940s.You may need to sqinch your eyes to see him because he's very little.



Daniel 8:9
And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

His look is stouter than his fellows and he came up last.In 1967 he subdued three horns and took control of the seven hilled city.

Daniel 7:24-27

24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.





His kingdom will be destroyed and then it will be given to them to whom it was promised for an everlasting possession.The saints.

Revelation 20 shows those same saints still living in that same kingdom 1000 years after the little horn is destroyed.
Can you guess where the he saints are in this verse?

Revelation 20

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.