I wrote a Letter to my Free Will

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Obedience

Obedience

Banned
#61
Dec 3, 2023
440
77
28
#61
maxwel said:
The Christian in-house debate over free-will vs determinism, is a debate that has been raging for hundreds of years, and it's not really why I'm in this thread. My last couple of posts were just a bit of teasing... it wasn't intended as serious debate.

You take care, and have a great day.

.
Click to expand...
That's fine.
When folks in this world are deceived by Satan.folks believe in Satan's way of thinking,When most people believe that they are free will,They didn't realize that they were enslaved.Ideological slavery that deceived by Satan.so we need free from the cage, it's called the will of God, but never called free will.

I can do whatever the will of God, if everyone of you would like call it "free will".
 
2ndTimothyGroup

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
#63
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,954
113
#63
maxwel said:
I am not yet contesting any of your views on free will, I'm just trying to understand, specifically, what they are.

Let's try this question:
Do you believe God called you to salvation in a way that you could not resist, or do you believe God called you to salvation in a way that gave you free will to accept or reject Him?

.
Click to expand...
Beautiful! This is amazing . . . someone that know what questions to ask.

Yes sir. The first 48 years of my life I believed I was a saved Christian, based upon my sense of free will (or so I believed). It wasn't until I had the most unbelievable and physically Powerful experience. As I was in the Presence of God as much as could be allowed, I later realized what happened to me, which is that I received both the Circumcision of Christ and the Indwelling Holy Spirit. I felt the Power that parted the Red Sea, and that is something that no human can reject or deny (should it happen to them).

I have received Salvation not by my choice, but because the Lord found me in a particular geographical location, and Saved me right there. After receiving this shocking gift, I realized that I had never really believed, for my many decades of study were blocked by the Veil and I couldn't possibly have understood the thousands of dollars of materials I spent my money on. Sermons, CDs, dictionaries, thesauruses, commentaries, on and on . . . but after that Spiritual experience, my entire Life changed, for I was purchased and then owned by Christ, held captive by Him with the express Purpose of spreading His Holy Message, of which I actively do each day. I have no choice, for I am compelled to believe and act.

When a person experiences the Circumcision of Christ and the Indwellilng Holy Spirit, rejecting Him is an impossibility. And for those who have not received the Circumcision of Christ nor the Powerful and Indwelling Holy Spirit, you'll will have to Trust that these things are true. And if not, I completely understand. No, cannot reject Christ. My Love only grows stronger and stronger and I become more and more focused in making Him the utmost important part of this Life given to me.

Sorry, but I could write a book on this one subject alone.
 
2ndTimothyGroup

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
#65
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,954
113
#65
Magenta said:
It's highly probable not many cottoned onto the fictional, tongue-in-cheek nature of your OP...
Click to expand...
It sounds like that notion struck us probably at about the same time. :) And while it is a funny story, I though it might be helpful. I could write one for the other side too, where it'd be just as goofy, you know, being "controlled" and all. :LOL:
 
Obedience

Obedience

Banned
#66
Dec 3, 2023
440
77
28
#66
2ndTimothyGroup said:
It sounds like that notion struck us probably at about the same time. :) And while it is a funny story, I though it might be helpful. I could write one for the other side too, where it'd be just as goofy, you know, being "controlled" and all. :LOL:
Click to expand...
It's not funny.I've seen people who are control by God with my own eyes.That's true without any will.Like a programmed robot.:eek:
When God returned the control of free will to that man, I saw his eyes were bloodshot.
 
Thunderrr-mental

Thunderrr-mental

Banned
#67
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
#67
Obedience said:
It's not funny.I've seen people who are control by God with my own eyes.That's true without any will.Like a programmed robot.:eek:
When God returned the control of free will to that man, I saw his eyes were bloodshot.
Click to expand...
I had the same thing said to me just last week here I said God gives me will.

And he told me I was a robot.

I told him I prefer to not have any will of my own, only his.

And he still called me a robot.
 
Obedience

Obedience

Banned
#68
Dec 3, 2023
440
77
28
#68
Thunderrr-mental said:
I had the same thing said to me just last week here I said God gives me will.

And he told me I was a robot.

I told him I prefer to not have any will of my own, only his.

And he still called me a robot.
Click to expand...
I think that's why God gave us a choice to believe in him.Because without any personal will,That's a pretty scary thing.believe/ trust me,I think that's worse than folks choosing free will.So God's will is good.It's just that it's difficult for us to understand some time.God didn't ask us to be programmed robots,In science fiction, this situation is equivalent to no free slaves.
What God prefers to see is that we take the initiative to seek him.Although the bible says that no one seeks him.but God chose us first,this is real love for us.
 
P

PaulThomson

Well-known member
#70
Oct 29, 2023
3,479
455
83
#70
Thunderrr-mental said:
No such thing as human free will sorry can't agree with all this nonsense
Click to expand...
Paul said in Romans 7:18, before discovering victory over the flesh through faith in Christ and the gift of the Holy Spirit, " For I know that in my flesh dwells no good thing; for TO KEEP ON WILLING (present infinitive: thelein) IS PRESENT WITH ME, but HOW TO KEEP ON PERFORMING (present infinitive: katergazesthai) that which is good I DIDN'T KEEP ON FINDING (present active indicative: heuriskO)find not."

Paul's will was able to maintain a continuous desire/will to do good. Nothing could stop him wanting/willing to do good. However, sin in his flesh prevented him from continuously doing good. How is that not a free will, If I want to fly and choose to continue fantasising about flying, what can you do to stop me wanting to fly?
 
P

PaulThomson

Well-known member
#71
Oct 29, 2023
3,479
455
83
#71
2ndTimothyGroup said:
Beautiful! This is amazing . . . someone that know what questions to ask.

Yes sir. The first 48 years of my life I believed I was a saved Christian, based upon my sense of free will (or so I believed). It wasn't until I had the most unbelievable and physically Powerful experience. As I was in the Presence of God as much as could be allowed, I later realized what happened to me, which is that I received both the Circumcision of Christ and the Indwelling Holy Spirit. I felt the Power that parted the Red Sea, and that is something that no human can reject or deny (should it happen to them).

I have received Salvation not by my choice, but because the Lord found me in a particular geographical location, and Saved me right there. After receiving this shocking gift, I realized that I had never really believed, for my many decades of study were blocked by the Veil and I couldn't possibly have understood the thousands of dollars of materials I spent my money on. Sermons, CDs, dictionaries, thesauruses, commentaries, on and on . . . but after that Spiritual experience, my entire Life changed, for I was purchased and then owned by Christ, held captive by Him with the express Purpose of spreading His Holy Message, of which I actively do each day. I have no choice, for I am compelled to believe and act.

When a person experiences the Circumcision of Christ and the Indwellilng Holy Spirit, rejecting Him is an impossibility. And for those who have not received the Circumcision of Christ nor the Powerful and Indwelling Holy Spirit, you'll will have to Trust that these things are true. And if not, I completely understand. No, cannot reject Christ. My Love only grows stronger and stronger and I become more and more focused in making Him the utmost important part of this Life given to me.

Sorry, but I could write a book on this one subject alone.
Click to expand...
So, your opinions about free will seem to be sufficiently proved by your subjective feelings and experiences alone, and nothing in the word of God.
 
2ndTimothyGroup

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
#72
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,954
113
#72
Obedience said:
It's not funny.I've seen people who are control by God with my own eyes.That's true without any will.Like a programmed robot.:eek:
When God returned the control of free will to that man, I saw his eyes were bloodshot.
Click to expand...
Oh wow, that sounds terrible. And it doesn't sound like the God I at least [think] I know. Yikes.
 
Obedience

Obedience

Banned
#75
Dec 3, 2023
440
77
28
#75
2ndTimothyGroup said:
Oh wow, that sounds terrible. And it doesn't sound like the God I'm at least [think] I know. Yikes.
Click to expand...
This is certainly not God's malice.God just shows what the free will is,and what is not the free will. Also what is the will of God, I know that I have free will, but the will of God is willing us to seeking him,then my free will to follow the will of God and become the will of God and free from Satan and death.
 
P

PaulThomson

Well-known member
#76
Oct 29, 2023
3,479
455
83
#76
2ndTimothyGroup said:
Ok. I'm sorry.
Click to expand...
Do you have any scripture on which you can also base your opinions on free will ? A lot of us think the Bible tells us the truth and any truth claim about Jesus' teaching should be clearly taught in the Bible.
 
7

7thMoon

Banned
#77
Apr 27, 2023
538
39
28
#77
PaulThomson said:
Paul said in Romans 7:18, before discovering victory over the flesh through faith in Christ and the gift of the Holy Spirit, " For I know that in my flesh dwells no good thing; for TO KEEP ON WILLING (present infinitive: thelein) IS PRESENT WITH ME, but HOW TO KEEP ON PERFORMING (present infinitive: katergazesthai) that which is good I DIDN'T KEEP ON FINDING (present active indicative: heuriskO)find not."

Paul's will was able to maintain a continuous desire/will to do good. Nothing could stop him wanting/willing to do good. However, sin in his flesh prevented him from continuously doing good. How is that not a free will, If I want to fly and choose to continue fantasising about flying, what can you do to stop me wanting to fly?
Click to expand...
I think the sin was caused by his flesh, rather in his flesh. Do you have any verses that say evil dwells in the flesh rather than no agathoi, ideal thing?
 
2ndTimothyGroup

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
#78
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,954
113
#78
Obedience said:
This is certainly not God's malice.God just shows what the free will is,and what is not the free will. Also what is the will of God, I know that I have free will, but the will of God is willing us to seeking him,then my free will to follow the will of God and become the will of God and free from Satan and death.
Click to expand...
I hear you. Hey, could you do me a favor and give me an example of how, if it were possible, I would be able to violate your sense of free will. Thanks!
 
2ndTimothyGroup

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
#79
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,954
113
#79
PaulThomson said:
Do you have any scripture on which you can also base your opinions on free will ? A lot of us think the Bible tells us the truth and any truth claim about Jesus' teaching should be clearly taught in the Bible.
Click to expand...
I sure do! I think I have amassed around 360ish sets of Bible passages. Yes, it is plainly taught, but in my first 48 years of being a Christian, I never saw it. But, that's because I only thought I was a Christian. But when Jesus Circumcised my heart, that's when everything changed. I was given eyes to see, ears to hear, and legs to Spiritually walk with the Lord. I didn't have that before. At anyrate, once I understood the Power of God, I then began to study the Bible in a new way and the Lord opened up His hidden, Mysterious Plan. I am extremely fortunate.
 
P

PaulThomson

Well-known member
#80
Oct 29, 2023
3,479
455
83
#80
7thMoon said:
I think the sin was caused by his flesh, rather in his flesh. Do you have any verses that say evil dwells in the flesh rather than no agathoi, ideal thing?
Click to expand...
Good catch. Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.