Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,328
6,649
113
62
We knew more about God at age 13 than most typical Christian men do at age 50.
Knowing about God is largely useless without actually knowing God. It's like the man who knows about weather but dies in the storm because he never experienced it's power until it was too late.
 

selahsays

Well-known member
May 31, 2023
2,796
1,484
113
And just for your info, that is probably a very good thing! I don't endorse all Reformed Baptist churches either because of their views on the Law and the uses of the Law, especially Calvin's "three uses" of it.

But other Reformed folks heartily endorsed Pink for the most part.

https://www.gotquestions.org/Arthur-Pink.html

P.S. It might also interest you to know that because I don't subscribe 100% to Reformed Theology, I am barred from joining any of Puritan boards online. I am barred because I don't adhere to Covenant Theology. Moral to the Story: Reformed folks have their quirks, too.
Ah! See there? So we all better stick with the Bible believing folks who dig deep.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,341
29,590
113
I still don’t get the fuss about free will.
I suppose if it was actually taught in the Bible there might be some relevance to it.

However, what is taught is that the natural man is a slave to sin and dead in his sins and trespasses.

People argue against it all the time, but I do not see being able to make choices as having free will.

God must do a work in me before I am able to choose Him. Some speak as if they did it all themselves.

How deceived they are.
 

selahsays

Well-known member
May 31, 2023
2,796
1,484
113
And just for your info, that is probably a very good thing! I don't endorse all Reformed Baptist churches either because of their views on the Law and the uses of the Law, especially Calvin's "three uses" of it.

But other Reformed folks heartily endorsed Pink for the most part.

https://www.gotquestions.org/Arthur-Pink.html

P.S. It might also interest you to know that because I don't subscribe 100% to Reformed Theology, I am barred from joining any of Puritan boards online. I am barred because I don't adhere to Covenant Theology. Moral to the Story: Reformed folks have their quirks, too.
What‘s Covenant Theology? Good grief—yet another -ology.
 

BillyBob

Active member
Dec 20, 2023
404
173
43
Texas
I don't care if he's reformed. I just need him to know the difference between religion and it's practice.
If Pink were here today, I'm not sure how he would classify himself! I just know that he was a very good writer. He had a talent for expressing his belief on a piece of paper that few can match. My copy of "The Life of David" needs a new cover because I keep going back to it over and over.
 

selahsays

Well-known member
May 31, 2023
2,796
1,484
113
If Pink were here today, I'm not sure how he would classify himself! I just know that he was a very good writer. He had a talent for expressing his belief on a piece of paper that few can match. My copy of "The Life of David" needs a new cover because I keep going back to it over and over.
Hopefully, he just classified himself as a Bible-believing Christian.
 

BillyBob

Active member
Dec 20, 2023
404
173
43
Texas
I suppose if it was actually taught in the Bible there might be some relevance to it.

However, what is taught is that the natural man is a slave to sin and dead in his sins and trespasses.

People argue against it all the time, but I do not see being able to make choices as having free will.

God must do a work in me before I am able to choose Him. Some speak as if they did it all themselves.

How deceived they are.
I agree! Nobody is going to will to do that which is not in their heart.
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
2,461
270
83
I don't care if he's reformed. I just need him to know the difference between religion and it's practice.
That was the entire point to my Free Will Analogy earlier, which apparently eluded you: There should be no difference whatsoever between religion (biblical theology) and practice -- orthodoxy and orthopraxy -- Natural Revelation and Special Revelation. The entire point to my analogy was that I seriously doubt very many NRs would do what the person did to the man on the side of the road. Most would be a Good Samaritan type, in spite of their wonky Free Will theology. Yet, at the same time they would be totally oblivious to the inconsistency between their gracious actions and their heretical [religious] beliefs about the place of man's will in salvation. And here's why they would be blinded to the inconsistency:

They recognized that the poor man on the road was in a helpless, hopeless, dire situation requiring help from outside of himself; while simultaneously failing to see that this is precisely how God sees all fallen humnity -- helpless, hapless, powerless. They cannot see themselves in the fallen man on the side of the road.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,328
6,649
113
62
Many of these people don't want to be ministered to. There's none so blind who will not see. ( Jesus spoke of such in Jn 9:41.) I see this all the time. True and undefiled religion in the sight of God is to do good unto others, while keeping oneself unstained by the world (Jas 1:27).
Everyone has needs. It is incumbent upon Christians to meet those needs. This is what opens doors for ministry, providing an avenue into people's lives.
Real ministry is messy and time consuming and costly. It directs without demanding, it reconciles without repulsing, and it gives without gaining. No one needs to be told they have been the recipient of love. It is self evident.
It's been my experience that people are suspicious of genuine love, but not because it warrants suspicion but is so infrequently experienced. So you have a fine definition of religion, but I do wonder if a poll was taken of their experience of you on this site, how many would feel you had eased their burdens or loosed their bonds.
Lest you think I'm singling you out, it's a question I've been asking myself.
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
4,321
714
113
Knowing about God is largely useless without actually knowing God. It's like the man who knows about weather but dies in the storm because he never experienced it's power until it was too late.
Absolutely!
Relationship, the journey, the whole experience is more valuable and rewarding than pure knowledge.
But knowledge with relationship, the journey, and the whole experience is the greatest Reward any human could ever desire and hope for.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,328
6,649
113
62
That was the entire point to my Free Will Analogy earlier, which apparently eluded you: There should be no difference whatsoever between religion (biblical theology) and practice -- orthodoxy and orthopraxy -- Natural Revelation and Special Revelation. The entire point to my analogy was that I seriously doubt very many NRs would do what the person did to the man on the side of the road. Most would be a Good Samaritan type, in spite of their wonky Free Will theology. Yet, at the same time they would be totally oblivious to the inconsistency between their gracious actions and their heretical [religious] beliefs about the place of man's will in salvation. And here's why they would be blinded to the inconsistency:

They recognized that the poor man on the road was in a helpless, hopeless, dire situation requiring help from outside of himself; while simultaneously failing to see that this is precisely how God sees all fallen humnity -- helpless, hapless, powerless. They cannot see themselves in the fallen man on the side of the road.
Oh I understood. That's why I wanted a Samaritan.
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
4,321
714
113
And just for your info, that is probably a very good thing! I don't endorse all Reformed Baptist churches either because of their views on the Law and the uses of the Law, especially Calvin's "three uses" of it.

But other Reformed folks heartily endorsed Pink for the most part.

https://www.gotquestions.org/Arthur-Pink.html

P.S. It might also interest you to know that because I don't subscribe 100% to Reformed Theology, I am barred from joining any of Puritan boards online. I am barred because I don't adhere to Covenant Theology. Moral to the Story: Reformed folks have their quirks, too.
Interesting!
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,341
29,590
113
If Pink were here today, I'm not sure how he would classify himself! I just know that he was a very good writer. He had a talent for expressing his belief on a piece of paper that few can match. My copy of "The Life of David" needs a new cover because I keep going back to it over and over.
I just looked him up and read the takes wiki and gotquestions.org present of him.

Seems he was understood as a reformed theologian and sparked a lot of interest in Calvinism well after his death.
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
2,461
270
83
I would Pray for healing and when he was healed lead him to the Lord.

That's a Divine Appointment designed by God for me to be there and be a Witness for God.
In other words, you would not drive off and abandon this poor soul in the mighty name of "free will" and proceed by implementing the all-important task of preserving its integrity and autonomy at all costs, as the person did in the story? You would actually recognize and acknowledge that this fallen man on the road was in no condition to help himself? Yet, you could never see yourself spiritually in this this man, could you?
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
4,321
714
113
I just looked him up and read the takes wiki and gotquestions.org present of him.

Seems he was understood as a reformed theologian and sparked a lot of interest in Calvinism well after his death.
Indeed, and why the Reformed flock to him. But he never claimed to be and that's why the Baptist Reformed church denied endorsing him.

He classified himself as Theologian and Dispensationalist, which is opposite of the Reformed Doctrine.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,341
29,590
113
Indeed, and why the Reformed flock to him. But he never claimed to be and that's why the Baptist Reformed church denied endorsing him.

He classified himself as Theologian and Dispensationalist, which is opposite of the Reformed Doctrine.
Too many isms and ists for me LOL. I am with @selahsays on that. wiki page ends by saying this:

Theologically Pink was rejected during his lifetime because of his opposition to Arminianism;
but after his death, there was a major shift of evangelical opinion towards Calvinistic theology.
By 1982, Baker Book House had published 22 of Pink's books and sold 350,000 total copies.
Nevertheless, it was Pink's Sovereignty of God that did "more than any other in redirecting the
thinking of a younger generation." After Banner of Truth Trust republished it in 1961—modifying
it to remove Pink's alleged hyper-Calvinism—the book sold 177,000 copies by 2004.
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
2,461
270
83
Ah! See there? So we all better stick with the Bible believing folks who dig deep.
Digging deep is the biblical thing to do in order to grow. Can't stay on the milk forever. At some point, we have to dig into the meat for the nourishment and safety of our souls.
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
2,461
270
83
Too many isms and ists for me LOL. I am with @selahsays on that. wiki page ends by saying this:

Theologically Pink was rejected during his lifetime because of his opposition to Arminianism;
but after his death, there was a major shift of evangelical opinion towards Calvinistic theology.
By 1982, Baker Book House had published 22 of Pink's books and sold 350,000 total copies.
Nevertheless, it was Pink's Sovereignty of God that did "more than any other in redirecting the
thinking of a younger generation." After Banner of Truth Trust republished it in 1961—modifying
it to remove Pink's alleged hyper-Calvinism—the book sold 177,000 copies by 2004.
I have that work! A GREAT read!
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
4,321
714
113
In other words, you would not drive off and abandon this poor soul in the mighty name of "free will" and proceed by implementing the all-important task of preserving its integrity and autonomy at all costs, as the person did in the story? You would actually recognize and acknowledge that this fallen man on the road was in no condition to help himself? Yet, you could never see yourself spiritually in this this man, could you?
I no longer have Free Will now that I am bought and paid for by God. The only way I would drive by if God told me to. But I can't imagine God would do that so I would stop when I felt/sensed the guiding of God to do as such. But I am praying as I pull over and getting out of my vehicle to hurry over to this person that they are alive. And then praying for healing.

What I have learned by having done this before, people tend to ask "what made you stop and help?" Good will of humanity, etc? That always leads for me to introduce God into the equation.