Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

[Cameron143]

So Moses is not saved because Jesus died and the Old Testament saints are not saved because Jesus died for them after they were followers of the Law?

OT saints were saved by grace through faith, same as today. They merely looked forward to and believed in a Messiah yet to come. We look back upon the accomplished work of Christ and believe.

 

[Cameron143]

Once you verse 12 is fulfilled verse 13 is done. You are cherry picking again.

The action in verse 13 precedes the action of verse 12. Verse 12 is the response to verse 13.

 

[7thMoon]

This is blatantly false. By works of the law no flesh has ever been justified...Galatians 2:16.

for by the law is the knowledge (i.e. epignosis) of sin.

 

[Cameron143]

for by the law is the knowledge (i.e. epignosis) of sin.

Sure. Knowledge of the law is sufficient for judgment, but not salvation. That's Paul's argument in Romans throughout.

 

[7thMoon]

Sure. Knowledge of the law is sufficient for judgment, but not salvation. That's Paul's argument in Romans throughout.

for by the law is the the notice (i.e. epignosis) of the sin.

 

[Rufus]

Is Moses, Joshua, the Prophets saved now? They followed the Law and when Jesus died brought their salvation.

What about Abraham? Did he follow any Law? You need to get up to speed on what the Law says about salvation. May I suggest starting at Hab 2:4? Then mozy over to Heb 3:19.

 

[Cameron143]

for by the law is the the notice (i.e. epignosis) of the sin.

I don't understand the point you are making. I concede that what you post is correct. Are you making a point?

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Do you mean - Had not the Spirit continued to sanctify Paul daily?
Funny how one day you accuse Paul of expressing his own opinion, the next day what he says is the gospel! Make up your mind...

I only said what I did about Paul when Paul wrote I (as in he, Paul) do not permit, rather than that God does not permit.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

What about Abraham? Did he follow any Law? You need to get up to speed on what the Law says about salvation. May I suggest starting at Hab 2:4? Then mozy over to Heb 3:19.

Abraham is like Noah and Enoch before the Law.

 

[7thMoon]

I don't understand the point you are making. I concede that what you post is correct. Are you making a point?

The deeds of the law are not the actions of the person obeying the law. It is the law itself.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

OT saints were saved by grace through faith, same as today. They merely looked forward to and believed in a Messiah yet to come. We look back upon the accomplished work of Christ and believe.

I said that much and said Saul was on that same path until he rebelled against God.

 

[Cameron143]

The deeds of the law are not the actions of the person obeying the law. It is the law itself.

That's incorrect. Deeds are actions.

 

[7thMoon]

That's incorrect. Deeds are actions.

And by actions of the law, no flesh shall be justified in certain cases. Again, it is the law's work, not the individual's work which is being written about here.

 

[Cameron143]

I said that much and said Saul was on that same path until he rebelled against God.

It's not the same path. Salvation isn't a path. It's an interaction with God on a heart, mind and will level wherein one is converted and transformed out of darkness and into the kingdom of light. No amount of obedience can ever accrue that will make this possible. It is a supernatural birthing that God alone and sovereignly orders. It is transformational and results in a new creation. It is never of works.

 

[Cameron143]

And by actions of the law, no flesh shall be justified in certain cases. Again, it is the law's work, not the individual's work which is being written about here.

I disagree with your premise.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

It's not the same path. Salvation isn't a path. It's an interaction with God on a heart, mind and will level wherein one is converted and transformed out of darkness and into the kingdom of light. No amount of obedience can ever accrue that will make this possible. It is a supernatural birthing that God alone and sovereignly orders. It is transformational and results in a new creation. It is never of works.

Every Old Testament person now saved did it the same way.
105 Thy Word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path...

 

[7thMoon]

I disagree with your premise.

I disagree with yours, and James says we are justified by works.

[James 2:21, 24-25 KJV] 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? ... 24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. 25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent [them] out another way?

 

[Cameron143]

Every Old Testament person now saved did it the same way.
105 Thy Word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path...

How exactly did that work?

 

[Cameron143]

I disagree with yours, and James says we are justified by works.

[James 2:21, 24-25 KJV] 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? ... 24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. 25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent [them] out another way?

Not exactly what he was saying, but don't have time to address it now.

 

[Rufus]

Abraham is like Noah and Enoch before the Law.

And the prophet Habakkuk? Was he before of after the Law? And what part of Heb 3:19 didn't you get? And what part Gal 3:10 don't you get? No one was ever justified by law because no could keep it perfectly. The purpose of the Law was NEVER to save anyone! (Gal 3:19-22). You have an incredibly low view of God!