Can the nonelect ever be born-again? (2 Kings 22:27) With the elect thou wilt be elect: and with the perverse thou wilt be perverted.

[rogerg]

it seems the John 10 text was used to suggest a type of election because Jesus said "you believe not because you are not of my sheep." Could not Jesus enable them to believe at a later time or was that statement a constant condition they could never receive Salvation? I do not believe the text is saying that yet it is used by some Calvinists as supporting text for Election.

As I understand it, it is a constant condition: in order to be able to "hear his voice", they must first already be His sheep, and not the reverse, that by hearing His voice they can become His sheep. To "leadeth them out", He "calleth his own sheep by name" - they are first known to Him individually and by that He calls them out. Those are they of the "foreknow" of Romans 8:30.

[Jhn 10:3 KJV] 3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

Also, I'd also like to expound on something I said in my prior post to you - the promise of God. Because salvation is God's promise to Abraham (Gal 3:29), it being His promise, cannot be dependent upon anything that man might or might not do, but only and solely dependent upon God's actions. Otherwise, the promise would not have been made by Him because He could not have guaranteed the results. Therefore, all who become saved are saved because of His choice of them individually, from/by that promise.

 

[MerSee]

Paul said this too.

How can anyone understand that you have correct doctrine when you can not even determine what Jesus said vs what someone else said?

Paul said what Jesus says.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Paul said what Jesus says.

Nice try

Jesus told us how to be saved.. Do you know what Jesus said or not?

If not. just say so and I will move on.

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

Can the nonelect ever be born-again?

By definition, NO.

Nobody comes to Christ except they are DRAWN to Him by Father. Romans 9 goes into it.

The first step in Salvation is to be CONVICTED OF YOUR SIN by the Holy Spirit, which is also the source of saving FAITH (God's WORD to you). (Rom 10:17)

 

[MerSee]

Nice try

Jesus told us how to be saved.. Do you know what Jesus said or not?

If not. just say so and I will move on.

1 Corinthians 11:27
27 Therefore whosoever shall eat this bread, or drink the chalice of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

By definition, NO.

Nobody comes to Christ except they are DRAWN to Him by Father. Romans 9 goes into it.

The first step in Salvation is to be CONVICTED OF YOUR SIN by the Holy Spirit, which is also the source of saving FAITH (God's WORD to you). (Rom 10:17)

Jesus said the HS will be sent to convict the world.

I doubt you believe the whole world will be saved, so it takes more than this

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

1 Corinthians 11:27
27 Therefore whosoever shall eat this bread, or drink the chalice of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord.

Ok.

so your not open to discussion. And do not know how to answer questions.

I will move on to someone who really wants to talk..

in the mean time, i will pray for you

 

[MerSee]

Ok.

so your not open to discussion. And do not know how to answer questions.

I will move on to someone who really wants to talk..

in the mean time, i will pray for you

That scripture verse answers your question.

 

[MerSee]

Jesus said the HS will be sent to convict the world.

I doubt you believe the whole world will be saved, so it takes more than this

The whole world will not be saved.

Revelation 21:1
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth. For the first heaven and the first earth was gone, and the sea is now no more.

2 Peter 3:13
But we look for new heavens and a new earth according to his promises, in which justice dwelleth.

Isaiah 65:17
For behold I create new heavens, and a new earth: and the former things shall not be in remembrance, and they shall not come upon the heart.

Isaiah 66:22
For as the new heavens, and the new earth, which I will make to stand before me, saith the Lord: so shall your seed stand, and your name.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Can you post a scripture verse that proves your position
we don't have to believe sound doctrine which comes from God?

Yeah, I didn't say any of that. Nice try throwing shade though.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

I believe correct doctrine which comes from God because I love Him.

I am sure you love Him, so look deeper. Pray, study, think it through again. You're not correct.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I am sure you love Him, so look deeper. Pray, study, think it through again. You're not correct.

self decieved.

I think John 9 shows what happens when people keep hardening their hearts to truth.

The blind man, although not sure who jesus was, Did not question what hapened and ended up comming to the lightl, because he was not only physically given ability to see the3 light, his belief caused hm to continually be opened to the spiritual light

On the other hand, the pharisees kept denying what they say and trying to hide it,, even blaming the man.. They just got deeper into the dark because they did nto want to believe.

 

[MerSee]

I am sure you love Him, so look deeper. Pray, study, think it through again. You're not correct.

The doctrine I believe comes from God Himself.

Can you post a scripture verse that proves we don't have to believe sound doctrine which comes from God?

 

[CS1]

I believe all correct doctrine which comes from God. Do you believe that means I am a Calvinist? I have never labeled myself a Calvinist.

nope but you do know that doctrine means teaching. I agree labels are no benefit. But some here have a different outlook on the current Thread than you and I. That is why I asked

 

[maxamir]

I am a universalist who believes there is Hell, and that limited atonement exists by a non-Calvinistic standard.

it doesn't really matter what you think you believe because what really matters is whether what you believe is the truth and the truth which is found in Holy Scripture disagrees with what you think.

Do you seriously believe that Christ died for those He justly casts into Hell?

 

[maxamir]

I disagree that Christ died for all, even if all will not be saved. That is the false narrative many try to imply: If Christ died for all, then all must be saved. No. The Bible doesn't Teach that. Those like me must tag people with labels to make their opinions more relevant.

I am not an Arminian or a Calvinist. Although both have Biblical points, they have done more to divide than unite.

Jesus said Go and Preach the Kingdom to all. Those who will be saved or not is up to him. I will let Him be the judge of that. But it is God who has placed the responsibility of the Gospel of Jesus Christ in our hands. What are you doing to see people saved?

What is the Gospel of Jesus Christ? That Paul said the power of God for salvation? Do people get saved when the gospel is preached IN YOUR CHURCH? If not, why? The election is the Gospel message.

Your Doctrinal position is not essential for salvation. Christ is,

John Calvin is not authoritative; Jesus is. You want to label people; I want to see people saved.

I am glad that you see the clear contradiction of those who say that Christ died for every person.

Doctrine is simply the teaching of Scripture, which very plainly declares that it is only those whom God has chosen to be saved that are saved and He uses the foolishness of Gospel preaching which includes this truth as the instrument to grant the repentance and faith to His people which He justly commands from all people to whom the Gospel is to be indiscriminately preached to, and which by the grace of God I have sought to faithfully do for many decades.

Can people be saved through a false Gospel that gives man something in which to boast in (1 Cor 1:26-29)?

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

The doctrine I believe comes from God Himself.

It doesn't.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Do you seriously believe that Christ died for those He justly casts into Hell?

Yes, because the Bible says so. And I'm not a universalist.

 

[maxamir]

YES!! Man enough for ya?! The Bible says He wishes that ALL be saved and NONE be lost. Sunday school kids understand this, what can't y'all??!

you have created a frustrated god as an idle in your mind because the God of Holy Scripture does whatever He pleases and whatever He pleases, He does (Psalm 115;3, 135:6) and God was pleased to send His own Son to secure the salvation of His people through His perfect life, death and resurrection as confirmed in Scripture and not simply make salvation possible by the choice of men who hate Him and would never choose Him.

If God sincerely desires to save every single person then why did Christ below rejoice at many being blinded to the truth and even thanked His Father for doing so?

Luk 10:21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in the Spirit and said, "I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and revealed them to babes. Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight.

Salvation is of, and belongs to the Lord (Jon 2:9, Psa 3:8) and not the choice of men!

 

[MerSee]

It doesn't.

Yes it does!

I embrace that faithful word which is according to doctrine, that I may be able to exhort in sound doctrine, and to convince the gainsayers.