Predestination is misunderstood...
- Thread starter Genez
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you can't find the post in this thread wherein anyone has stated we are saved because our of choice, so you deviate with your copy/paste.
and fyi ... @Genez already submitted a post which indicates that arminianism and calvinism are both wrong.
You would do well to study Scripture.
2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
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and fyi ... @Genez already submitted a post which indicates that arminianism and calvinism are both wrong.
You would do well to study Scripture.
2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
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... so you know all the unsearchable riches of Christ? ... and you understand all of the ways of God?Ephesians 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ
Romans 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
you can read Scripture for a lifetime and never reach the end of its instruction.
oh, I forgot ... I am addressing an "elect" one who understands all ...
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... so you know all the unsearchable riches of Christ? ... and you understand all of the ways of God?Ephesians 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ
Romans 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
you can read Scripture for a lifetime and never reach the end of its instruction.
oh, I forgot ... I am addressing an "elect" one who understands all ...
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can you sacrifice the truth
Jeremiah 22:3
New International Version
3 This is what the Lord says: Do what is just and right. Rescue from the hand of the oppressor the one who has been robbed. Do no wrong or violence to the foreigner, the fatherless or the widow, and do not shed innocent blood in this place.
Jeremiah 22:3
New International Version
3 This is what the Lord says: Do what is just and right. Rescue from the hand of the oppressor the one who has been robbed. Do no wrong or violence to the foreigner, the fatherless or the widow, and do not shed innocent blood in this place.
Let me put things a different way.
USING vs PROOVING
1. When we're talking about foregone conclusions here (in this conversation) we're talking about our views for or against Calvinism.
2. What you just explained to me, is how you can "USE" your foregone conclusion.
3. That's fine, but this thread is not about how to USE our foregone conclusions.... but how to PROVE them.
4. There is a difference between USING (applying) our doctrinal views, and PROVING our doctrinal views are correct.
5. You can certainly "use" your foregone conclusion in Luke 18:13 with those who are agreeable: but we weren't talking about how to USE our foregone conclusions, we were talking about how to PROVE our foregone conclusions.
6. I was simply pointing out that Luke 18:13 is not a passage that makes any statements about free will or determinism... it simply gives no data on this topic, and so it cannot be used as PROOF for either point of view.
(The passage talks about a man having sorrow for sin and calling to God for forgiveness... but it does not come out and tell the mechanics of how he came into this state, and whether or not he was able to invoke any free will. That data is not given to us in this passage. Because it gives no data on our topic, it cannot be used as a proof for our topic.)
7. This thread isn't about USING our foregone conclusions, but PROVING them, and Luke 18:13 simply doesn't offer any data for PROVING either point of view.
8. There are lots of passages commonly used by either side, that give them data points from which to construct proofs... this passage just doesn't seem to be one of those passages that can act as a proof.
God Bless.
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USING vs PROOVING
1. When we're talking about foregone conclusions here (in this conversation) we're talking about our views for or against Calvinism.
2. What you just explained to me, is how you can "USE" your foregone conclusion.
3. That's fine, but this thread is not about how to USE our foregone conclusions.... but how to PROVE them.
4. There is a difference between USING (applying) our doctrinal views, and PROVING our doctrinal views are correct.
5. You can certainly "use" your foregone conclusion in Luke 18:13 with those who are agreeable: but we weren't talking about how to USE our foregone conclusions, we were talking about how to PROVE our foregone conclusions.
6. I was simply pointing out that Luke 18:13 is not a passage that makes any statements about free will or determinism... it simply gives no data on this topic, and so it cannot be used as PROOF for either point of view.
(The passage talks about a man having sorrow for sin and calling to God for forgiveness... but it does not come out and tell the mechanics of how he came into this state, and whether or not he was able to invoke any free will. That data is not given to us in this passage. Because it gives no data on our topic, it cannot be used as a proof for our topic.)
7. This thread isn't about USING our foregone conclusions, but PROVING them, and Luke 18:13 simply doesn't offer any data for PROVING either point of view.
8. There are lots of passages commonly used by either side, that give them data points from which to construct proofs... this passage just doesn't seem to be one of those passages that can act as a proof.
God Bless.
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