Can the nonelect ever be born-again? (2 Kings 22:27) With the elect thou wilt be elect: and with the perverse thou wilt be perverted.

[Thunderrr-mental]

You missed the entire point about Gods hatred of some people. You appealed to an unrelated text and failed to address the problem. The dispute was about the meaning of the word "Hated" in the context of Roman 9:13 "God hated Esau".

Failing to deal with the problem and plucking verses out of their intended context and twisting their meaning to make them say something other than what God said, is sinful. Why didn't you address the disputed verse itself, instead of citing unrelated scriptures.

The Bible says that God hates some people. Romans 9:13 says that God hated Esau before Esau was even born, because Esau had inherited Adam's hatred of God, and God was not pleased to elect Esau to salvation.
Psalm 5:5 says, "The arrogant cannot stand in Your presence; You hate all who do wrong." Notice that is it not some abstract "sin" or "wickedness" that God hates in this verse; it is people whom He hates.

You tried to say the word "hate' is only used in one context in the Bible, but there are more than one. So we need to face the truth even if we don't like it.

In Luke 14:26 we find Jesus saying that we must hate the members of our own families if we want to follow Him.
While in the parallel passage in Matthew 10:37, Jesus says we must love them less than we love Him.

That kind of "soft" explanation, however, won't work in the verse regarding Esau. God did not love Esau less than Jacob; He did not love Esau in any saving way at all.

All men have the life of Jesus in them before they saved, and all men are under the sentence of power of death in his life, that is in all men before they are saved.

John 1

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.

9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him

Genesis 1

So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.
28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”

In the begining Jesus created life from his life and created Adam in heaven which was to be the life of all mankind.


So God created al mankind in his own image,

28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number

God said to all mankind if you eat from that tree you will all die.

 

[Charlie_2024]

There’s no such thing as a “hybrid Armin/Calvin” version of the Gospel. Why? …because the Gospel is all about Jesus Christ.

It all depends on which gospel version you're talking about. There are countless different, conflicting interpretations. Saying the gospel is all about Jesus says nothing at all. Which Jesus are you talking about, every religious denomination has their own different Jesus.

The problem is every denomination does what you do, they all claim that the gospel is all about Jesus but they all believe in different Jesus's.

You haven't offered any alternative interpretation or solution to the bitter division in the Church over the 500 year old war.

Please enlighten us and share your secret third option, you will become the most famous person in all of history if you do. Now please let us know which of the two gospel views you side with.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

You missed the entire point about Gods hatred of some people. You appealed to an unrelated text and failed to address the problem. The dispute was about the meaning of the word "Hated" in the context of Roman 9:13 "God hated Esau".

Failing to deal with the problem and plucking verses out of their intended context and twisting their meaning to make them say something other than what God said, is sinful. Why didn't you address the disputed verse itself, instead of citing unrelated scriptures.

The Bible says that God hates some people. Romans 9:13 says that God hated Esau before Esau was even born, because Esau had inherited Adam's hatred of God, and God was not pleased to elect Esau to salvation.
Psalm 5:5 says, "The arrogant cannot stand in Your presence; You hate all who do wrong." Notice that is it not some abstract "sin" or "wickedness" that God hates in this verse; it is people whom He hates.

You tried to say the word "hate' is only used in one context in the Bible, but there are more than one. So we need to face the truth even if we don't like it.

In Luke 14:26 we find Jesus saying that we must hate the members of our own families if we want to follow Him.
While in the parallel passage in Matthew 10:37, Jesus says we must love them less than we love Him.

That kind of "soft" explanation, however, won't work in the verse regarding Esau. God did not love Esau less than Jacob; He did not love Esau in any saving way at all.

all mankind the life of Jesus was created in Adam

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

It all depends on which gospel version you're talking about. There are countless different, conflicting interpretations. Saying the gospel is all about Jesus says nothing at all. Which Jesus are you talking about, every religious denomination has their own different Jesus.

The problem is every denomination does what you do, they all claim that the gospel is all about Jesus but they all believe in different Jesus's.

You haven't offered any alternative interpretation or solution to the bitter division in the Church over the 500 year old war.

Please enlighten us and share your secret third option, you will become the most famous person in all of history if you do. Now please let us know which of the two gospel views you side with.

View attachment 262951

.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

It all depends on which gospel version you're talking about. There are countless different, conflicting interpretations. Saying the gospel is all about Jesus says nothing at all. Which Jesus are you talking about, every religious denomination has their own different Jesus.

The problem is every denomination does what you do, they all claim that the gospel is all about Jesus but they all believe in different Jesus's.

You haven't offered any alternative interpretation or solution to the bitter division in the Church over the 500 year old war.

Please enlighten us and share your secret third option, you will become the most famous person in all of history if you do. Now please let us know which of the two gospel views you side with.

View attachment 262951

tulip

5 points of tulip.

Total depravity exists when God decides

Unconditional election exists when God decides

Irresistible grace exists when God decides

Limited atonement exists when God decides


Perseverance of the saints exists when God decides.

 

[Charlie_2024]

all mankind the life of Jesus was created in Adam


View attachment 262953

Dead wrong, it's the exact opposite. claiming that the life of Jesus was created in Adam is the most absurd thing I've ever heard

 

[Charlie_2024]

. View attachment 262954
View attachment 262955

I'm glad you're including some of these wise old quotes. You don't have to agree with everything Mr. Calvin said, as he was man and men can make mistakes. But if someone speaks the truth, we should accept it even if we don't agree with some of their other views

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Dead wrong, it's the exact opposite. claiming that the life of Jesus was created in Adam is the most absurd thing I've ever heard

Jesus said to Adam in heaven whom he had created with his life this

Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Who gave you the authority to judge people and deny what God said, that amounts to accusing God of being a liar. I will pray for your soul, if you like.

No, I don't need prayers . I need you to understand that Calvin was vengeful man who made himself a pope and never came fully out of the Catholic religion. God is not like Calvin. There will be a day when God will punish the wicked, those who refuse to turn to Him. Until then He calls to every person to come,repent and be saved. I don't need Calvins dogma to know God, I don't need a pope or a priest.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

It's neither, it's just that you're utterly confused so you can't make any sense of it. That's the truth

It is one or the other. I get you can't answer it because of your dogma. Hate doesn't mean despise, obviously. And obviously you can't admit that because your dogma won't allow it.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Are you a racist, what do you have against the French

You really like to accuse the breathern, don't you? I thought that was the devils job. Pointing out a person is French is racist how? Exactly pin point how calling a person what they are is racist. I'd like to know how you figure this one out. My land you all get more hysterical and paranoid by the minute! Do you even know any French people? rofl Crazier by the minute.

 

[selahsays]

@Charlie_2024

Arminianism and Calvinism are not gospels. Rather, they are both theological systems developed by two men. There is only ONE salvation, and that salvation is only through Jesus Christ, the Savior of the world. There is only ONE option (Why are you even using the word option?). There is only ONE way, and again, through Jesus Christ. John 14:6 tells us, “Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.”

Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, ….

- 1 Corinthians 15:1-4

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Hate means hate, it doesn't mean love watered down as your trying t push here. I must defend Gods Word when it is under attack

You're not defending God's word. You're defending a dead mans dogma, that was taken to extremes. Calvin is dead, he was vengeful in his life, helped get people sent to their deaths. He never understood the grace and mercy of God. God did not create an entire people to murder! Didn't happen! God is NOT the author of evil. Man has a choice. You are creating the same monster Calvin did. That is not the character of God. If you believe that, you know nothing of who He really is and you are the one that needs prayers.

 

[Charlie_2024]

No, I don't need prayers . I need you to understand that Calvin was vengeful man who made himself a pope and never came fully out of the Catholic religion. God is not like Calvin. There will be a day when God will punish the wicked, those who refuse to turn to Him. Until then He calls to every person to come,repent and be saved. I don't need Calvins dogma to know God, I don't need a pope or a priest.

OK, I think I get it now. You don't need anyone to teach you and interpret the bible to you. I just hope your sufficiently qualified to reject Gods appointed Teachers and Shepherds. That means that you have taken the law into your own hands and you're prepared to accept the consequences that come with an erroneous theology.

I really doubt that you're aware of how serious the consequences are of taking the law into your own hands when you assume the office of a Minister as an unqualified person. Is more serious than taking control of a jet plane with no experience as a pilot.

I can't understand why so many people reject Gods order in favor of doing it their way. The only reason I can think of would be rebellion

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

OK, so now you reject Gods order and install yourself a the highest authority. a

The more hysterical you get because a mere man, Calvin, and his false dogma is criticized, proves our point. It's God plus no one. You don't need Calvin to be saved. Calvin believed you did, but you don't. I hope you get free of this mans diabolical teachings. They have nothing to do with the real character of God. Whose authority do I say that on? The WORD of GOD, not a mere man.

 

[Charlie_2024]

It is one or the other. I get you can't answer it because of your dogma. Hate doesn't mean despise, obviously. And obviously you can't admit that because your dogma won't allow it.

OK, so in your private view. Hate is bitter water with a bit of honey mixed in. But my Bible tells me that God hates those He torments in the lake of fire for all eternity. That doesn't sound like bitter sweet to me, it sounds like the ultimate hatred imaginable

 

[Charlie_2024]

You really like to accuse the breathern, don't you? I thought that was the devils job. Pointing out a person is French is racist how? Exactly pin point how calling a person what they are is racist. I'd like to know how you figure this one out. My land you all get more hysterical and paranoid by the minute! Do you even know any French people? rofl Crazier by the minute.

Why did you bring up race if you're not racist

 

[Charlie_2024]

@Charlie_2024

Arminianism and Calvinism are not gospels. Rather, they are both theological systems developed by two men. There is only ONE salvation, and that salvation is only through Jesus Christ, the Savior of the world. There is only ONE option (Why are you even using the word option?). There is only ONE way, and again, through Jesus Christ. John 14:6 tells us, “Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.”

Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, ….

- 1 Corinthians 15:1-4

You conveniently dogged the question again. If you don't have an answer, just admit it.

 

[Charlie_2024]

You're not defending God's word. You're defending a dead mans dogma, that was taken to extremes. Calvin is dead, he was vengeful in his life, helped get people sent to their deaths. He never understood the grace and mercy of God. God did not create an entire people to murder! Didn't happen! God is NOT the author of evil. Man has a choice. You are creating the same monster Calvin did. That is not the character of God. If you believe that, you know nothing of who He really is and you are the one that needs prayers.

You still haven't found a single error in the great mans theology. It's pointless attacking the man unless you have something against him. The only thing I can see here is you hate the man because he spoke the truth, and that speaks volumes about your truth

 

[selahsays]

You conveniently dogged the question again. If you don't have an answer, just admit it.

There’s nothing to dodge. It’s that you have limited understanding of the Word of God.