Who is receiving the Spirit?

[Edify]

Another scripture is Ephesians 4. Like 1 co 13... alone it isn't enough to support cessationism, but together with other scripture it does support it.

So.. like 1 co 13...there is a point at which the gifts (in this case supernaturally empowered ministry gifts) come to a point of finishing and completing. This case it is 'the knowledge of the unity of the faith ' ..the 'measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ '

The completed Canon is these things.

So that is another part.

11And it was He who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, 12to equip the saints for works of ministry and to build up the body of Christ, 13until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God, as we mature to the full measure of the stature of Christ.
The church hasn't reached that place in the time we're living...AAMOF, we're going the other way as a whole.
Eph 4 has NOTHING to do with a complete Bible.

 

[Edify]

I wary of threads that start with, "this will clear up a lot of confusion."

Usually it's someone pushing their personal(false) beliefs on others. Good call.

 

[Nehemiah6]

There is no such reference in the Law nor the Prophets nor the Psalms.

Yes there is:

John Gill's Commentary
But they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. In Genesis 3:16, "thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee". By this the apostle would signify, that the reason why women are not to speak in the church, or to preach and teach publicly, or be concerned in the ministerial function, is, because this is an act of power, and authority; of rule and government, and so contrary to that subjection which God in his law requires of women unto men. The extraordinary instances of Deborah, Huldah, and Anna, must not be drawn into a rule or example in such cases.

Ellicott's Commentary says the same thing:
(34) But they are commanded to be under obedience.—Better (as in some of the best MSS.), but let them be under obedience. The original precept laid down in Genesis 3:16 teaches this. “The law” stands for the Old Testament generally.

Jamieson, Faussett, & Brown's Commentary says the saem thing:
34. (1Ti 2:11, 12). For women to speak in public would be an act of independence, as if they were not subject to their husbands (compare 1Co 11:3; Eph 5:22; Tit 2:5; 1Pe 3:1). For "under obedience," translate, "in subjection" or "submission," as the Greek is translated (Eph 5:21, 22, 24).
the law—a term applied to the whole Old Testament; here, Ge 3:16.

Indeed Paul also includes the deception of Eve in this context. So those are two reasons given BY GOD. You are therefore arguing with God.

 

[wattie]

Usually it's someone pushing their personal(false) beliefs on others. Good call.

https://www.the-highway.com/cessation1_Warfield.html

This is all you would need to know about cessation of some of the gifts of the Spirit. I'll leave it there.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Indeed Paul also includes the deception of Eve in this context. So those are two reasons given BY GOD. You are therefore arguing with God.

Jesus had Women Disciples:
8:
1 And it came to pass afterward that he went through every city and village, preaching and telling the glad tidings of the kingdom of God; and the twelve were with him,

2 and some women who had been cured of evil spirits and diseases; Mary called Magdalene, out of whom had gone seven demons,

3 and Joanna wife of Chuza, Herod’s steward, and Susanna, and many others, who ministered to him of their goods.

Jesus liberated Women whether you want to accept it or not.

I go by what Jesus did not what Paul wants.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Jesus had Women Disciples:

Totally irrelevant. All the apostles were men.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Totally irrelevant. All the apostles were men.

Junia was a woman.

 

[Edify]

https://www.the-highway.com/cessation1_Warfield.html

This is all you would need to know about cessation of some of the gifts of the Spirit. I'll leave it there.

This is what I found there:
How long did this state of things continue? It was the characterizing peculiarity of specifically the Apostolic Church, and it belonged therefore exclusively to the Apostolic age — although no doubt this designation may be taken with some latitude. These gifts were not the possession of the primitive Christian as such;6 nor for that matter of the Apostolic Church or the Apostolic age for themselves; they were distinctively the authentication of the Apostles. They were part of the credentials of the Apostles as the authoritative agents of God in founding the church. Their function thus confined them to distinctively the Apostolic Church, and they necessarily passed away with it.
See these statements in red? They are both outright lies teaching against Acts 2 & the prophecy of Joel!
Acts 2:
17‘AND IT SHALL BE IN THE LAST DAYS,’ God says,
‘THAT I WILL POUR OUT MY SPIRIT ON ALL [p]MANKIND;
AND YOUR SONS AND YOUR DAUGHTERS WILL PROPHESY,
AND YOUR YOUNG MEN WILL SEE VISIONS,
AND YOUR OLD MEN WILL [q]HAVE DREAMS;
18AND EVEN ON MY MALE AND FEMALE [r]SERVANTS(slaves)
I WILL POUR OUT MY SPIRIT IN THOSE DAYS,
And they will prophesy.

You looked for a commentary to agree with you. In doing so you skipped 7-10 commentaries that taught it correctly.

I believe this is a question that will clear up a lot of confusion about the Holy Spirit's work in an individual and a local church as a corporate gathering.

One who is confused cannot break up confusion, they just cause more.

 

[wattie]

This is what I found there:
How long did this state of things continue? It was the characterizing peculiarity of specifically the Apostolic Church, and it belonged therefore exclusively to the Apostolic age — although no doubt this designation may be taken with some latitude. These gifts were not the possession of the primitive Christian as such;6 nor for that matter of the Apostolic Church or the Apostolic age for themselves; they were distinctively the authentication of the Apostles. They were part of the credentials of the Apostles as the authoritative agents of God in founding the church. Their function thus confined them to distinctively the Apostolic Church, and they necessarily passed away with it.
See these statements in red? They are both outright lies teaching against Acts 2 & the prophecy of Joel!
Acts 2:
17‘AND IT SHALL BE IN THE LAST DAYS,’ God says,
‘THAT I WILL POUR OUT MY SPIRIT ON ALL [p]MANKIND;
AND YOUR SONS AND YOUR DAUGHTERS WILL PROPHESY,
AND YOUR YOUNG MEN WILL SEE VISIONS,
AND YOUR OLD MEN WILL [q]HAVE DREAMS;
18AND EVEN ON MY MALE AND FEMALE [r]SERVANTS(slaves)
I WILL POUR OUT MY SPIRIT IN THOSE DAYS,
And they will prophesy.

You looked for a commentary to agree with you. In doing so you skipped 7-10 commentaries that taught it correctly.


One who is confused cannot break up confusion, they just cause more.

This Acts 2 passage is in a different context to the apostles. But even so.. it was still mostly fulfilled right then with Peter talking about it.

It still doesn't support continuationism. The prophesying etc.. was happening right then and there.

 

[HeIsHere]

How do you 'make' Him Lord and Saviour? He is Lord and Saviour.. I know that.

Isn't He saving you rather than you making Him into something?

I know sometimes these words are just semantics, but salvation has gotta be all coming from Him when we ask for it..not us.

He gives eternal life, He keeps it. We just call for it.

Agree Wattie,

The gospel is not making Jesus Lord and Saviour.

Salvation is a gift not quid pro quo. I do this and I get this in return is not the good news.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Salvation is a gift not quid pro quo

Yes. Salvation is indeed a gift, but God has given us the terms which must be met to be truly saved -- repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

And Romans 10 makes it crystal clear that faith in Christ includes making Him the Lord and Master of your life. The term "Lord" is not exactly meaningless or abstract in this passage: That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. (Rom 10:9-13) As you can see we are to believe on and acknowledge "the LORD Jesus" not just "Jesus" or "Yeshua".

Christ is called "the Lord Jesus Christ" after His resurrection, which confirms that all power and authority in Heaven and on earth have been handed to Him by God the Father. So this is what God expects from believers: I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. (Rom 12:1,2) This is what it means to make Christ the Lord of your life. This is what God expects as "the perfect will of God".

 

[HeIsHere]

Yes. Salvation is indeed a gift, but God has given us the terms which must be met to be truly saved -- repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

And Romans 10 makes it crystal clear that faith in Christ includes making Him the Lord and Master of your life. The term "Lord" is not exactly meaningless or abstract in this passage: That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. (Rom 10:9-13) As you can see we are to believe on and acknowledge "the LORD Jesus" not just "Jesus" or "Yeshua".

Christ is called "the Lord Jesus Christ" after His resurrection, which confirms that all power and authority in Heaven and on earth have been handed to Him by God the Father. So this is what God expects from believers: I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. (Rom 12:1,2) This is what it means to make Christ the Lord of your life. This is what God expects as "the perfect will of God".

He is Lord and Saviour we do not make Him Lord and Saviour, we believe in, place our trust in Him and His work on our behalf.

There is never any "quid pro quo" in being born again, we are not receiving wages as though God was indebted to us, we are receiving a gift.

Now to someone who works, wages are not considered a gift but an obligation. Now the wages of the worker are not credited as a gift, but as an obligation.
Romans 4:4

After we are saved we can have a worthy walk or a miserable walk, that is discipleship and the fellowship part.

 

[Nehemiah6]

He is Lord and Saviour we do not make Him Lord and Saviour, we believe in, place our trust in Him and His work on our behalf.

Oh yes you do make Him Lord and Savior of yourself PERSONALLY. If not you are a sham Christian. Trusting in His work on our behalf is certainly part of it. But Paul said to the Lord on the road to Damascus "LORD, what wilt thou have me do". And he began to serve Christ almost immediately after he was saved. This meant that he acknowledged Christ as the Lord of his life personally.

 

[HeIsHere]

sham Christian.

Well you might be a "sham Christian" but it is either a free gift no strings attached or it is not a gift, not possible to have it both ways.

Now we can be assured that God chastens those who are His, not all have the character/disposition of Paul, some will walk in the flesh.

 

[wattie]

Oh yes you do make Him Lord and Savior of yourself PERSONALLY. If not you are a sham Christian. Trusting in His work on our behalf is certainly part of it. But Paul said to the Lord on the road to Damascus "LORD, what wilt thou have me do". And he began to serve Christ almost immediately after he was saved. This meant that he acknowledged Christ as the Lord of his life personally.

It takes a long time for Jesus to become number 1 in every area of your life. It's a whole lifetime journey. So we can't 'make' Him Lord at salvation.

Me thinks you are mixing up daily service with salvation here.

 

[Nehemiah6]

So we can't 'make' Him Lord at salvation.

Why not? To acknowledge Christ as Lord is to understand that there is another Lord and Master in one's life. And that leads to further changes. What is stated below should be the reality for all Christians at present, and it will be a reality for all in the future: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (Phil 2: 10,11) It could not be any clearer. Bowing the knee to Christ is something that should happen at conversion and continue from there.

 

[Cameron143]

Why not? To acknowledge Christ as Lord is to understand that there is another Lord and Master in one's life. And that leads to further changes. What is stated below should be the reality for all Christians at present, and it will be a reality for all in the future: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (Phil 2: 10,11) It could not be any clearer. Bowing the knee to Christ is something that should happen at conversion and continue from their.

I think what people are saying is that even in bowing and confessing, one is merely acknowledging what is already true of Jesus. Whether someone acknowledges that Jesus is Lord and Savior or not, it doesn't change the reality that He is.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Whether someone acknowledges that Jesus is Lord and Savior or not, it doesn't change the reality that He is.

That is hardly the point. A personal acknowledgement is what God expects. See the passage I quoted. It is not says that Jesus Christ is Lord already so do nothing. Quite the opposite. But the resistance to this truth is because the "flesh" does not want to give up its control to Christ. And also because when the Gospel is preached, this truth is not clearly presented. To "believe" on the Lord Jesus Christ includes this as we see in the life of Paul.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Junia was a woman.

Romans 16:7 Greet Andronicus and Junia, my fellow Jews who have been in prison with me. They are outstanding among the apostles, and they were in Christ before I was.


It doesn't mean that Junia was an apostle. "...among the apostles..." means that these two people are well known to the apostles and viewed as outstanding by them.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Romans 16:7 Greet Andronicus and Junia, my fellow Jews who have been in prison with me. They are outstanding among the apostles, and they were in Christ before I was.


It doesn't mean that Junia was an apostle. "...among the apostles..." means that these two people are well known to the apostles and viewed as outstanding by them.

Scholars and Theologians make this claim because they were imprisoned like Paul was for doing as Paul and to be well known to the Apostle they were traveling because not every Apostle went where Paul did.

But there's other women leaders mentioned in the church.

I commend to you Phebe, our sister, who is a deaconess of the church that is in Cenchr