Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR
- Thread starter MerSee
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Cherry-picking again, heh? 
Also, why didn't you quote all of verse 27, which reads
Acts 17:27
27 God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us?
NIV
God desires for men to seek him but that doesn't mean that any unregenerate sinner will or can desire to seek him!
And you forget that NO ONE seeks God (Rom 3:11). Wanna know why? Because the sinful mind is hostile toward (Rom 8:7), so how would anyone with such a mind want to seek God, want to find him, want to know him? Why do you think Jesus said this:
Luke 19:10
10 For the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lost"?
NIV
Or that he did not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance?
And have you also forgotten the Parable of the Prodigal Son? What did the Father say about the prodigal to his brother? Do you recall? In fact, the father in the parable said this twice to drive home the point!
Luke 15:24, 32
24 For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.' So they began to celebrate... 32 But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.'"
NIV
Here's a newsflash for you: The Dead can't seek and find anything. And besides, the father in the story was never lost, it was the son who was lost, remember? (I always love it when some professing Christian tells me that he "found God". My retort usually is, "Where did you lose him?")
And then you have forgotten this also:
Isa 65:1
65:1
"I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me;
I was found by those who did not seek me.
To a nation that did not call on my name,
I said, 'Here am I, here am I.'
NIV
The play on words, notwithstanding, do you know who that "nation" is to whom God revealed himself? If you said that it is the same "nation" to whom Jesus gave the Kingdom when he took it away from Israel, you'd be right on the mark. The nation is the Church.
Do you have anymore pearls of wisdom for us this cloudy, gray morning?
Also, why didn't you quote all of verse 27, which reads
Acts 17:27
27 God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us?
NIV
God desires for men to seek him but that doesn't mean that any unregenerate sinner will or can desire to seek him!
And you forget that NO ONE seeks God (Rom 3:11). Wanna know why? Because the sinful mind is hostile toward (Rom 8:7), so how would anyone with such a mind want to seek God, want to find him, want to know him? Why do you think Jesus said this:
Luke 19:10
10 For the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lost"?
NIV
Or that he did not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance?
And have you also forgotten the Parable of the Prodigal Son? What did the Father say about the prodigal to his brother? Do you recall? In fact, the father in the parable said this twice to drive home the point!
Luke 15:24, 32
24 For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.' So they began to celebrate... 32 But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.'"
NIV
Here's a newsflash for you: The Dead can't seek and find anything. And besides, the father in the story was never lost, it was the son who was lost, remember? (I always love it when some professing Christian tells me that he "found God". My retort usually is, "Where did you lose him?")
And then you have forgotten this also:
Isa 65:1
65:1
"I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me;
I was found by those who did not seek me.
To a nation that did not call on my name,
I said, 'Here am I, here am I.'
NIV
The play on words, notwithstanding, do you know who that "nation" is to whom God revealed himself? If you said that it is the same "nation" to whom Jesus gave the Kingdom when he took it away from Israel, you'd be right on the mark. The nation is the Church.
Do you have anymore pearls of wisdom for us this cloudy, gray morning?
27 He did this so they would look for him. He wanted them to reach out and find him. But he is not far from each one of us.
[HE] in verse 27 is GOD!
So God did this and God wanted them to look for Him and find Him.
Blows your doctrine out of the water claiming God made men for Hell when God clearly made a way for man to find Him.
In your pipe dream! Besides, I refuted your gross misinterpretation in my 4979 with several passages that contradict your interpretation taken from some weird bible translation to boot. From what paraphrase version did you quote? None of my translations come even close to yours:
Acts 17:27
27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
KJV
Acts 17:27
27 that they should seek God, in the hope that they might feel their way toward him and find him. Yet he is actually not far from each one of us,
ESV
Acts 17:27
27 So that they should seek God, in the hope that they might feel after Him and find Him, although He is not far from each one of us.
AMP
Acts 17:27
27 that they may seek God; if indeed they might feel after him and find him, although he is not far from each one of us:
Darby
Acts 17:27
27 that they should seek God, if haply they might feel after him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us:
ASV
Acts 17:27
27 that they should seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;
NASB
Acts 17:27
27 "His purpose in all of this was that the nations should seek after God and perhaps feel their way toward him and find him — though he is not far from any one of us.
NLT
Acts 17:27
27 that they should seek God, in the hope that they might feel after him and find him. Yet he is not far from each one of us,
RSV
Answer me this: Did the disciples of Christ seek him, find him and choose him or was it the other way around?
P.S. God WANTED Israel to keep his Mosaic Law Covenant! How did that work out for Israel and Judah?
Acts 17:27
27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
KJV
Acts 17:27
27 that they should seek God, in the hope that they might feel their way toward him and find him. Yet he is actually not far from each one of us,
ESV
Acts 17:27
27 So that they should seek God, in the hope that they might feel after Him and find Him, although He is not far from each one of us.
AMP
Acts 17:27
27 that they may seek God; if indeed they might feel after him and find him, although he is not far from each one of us:
Darby
Acts 17:27
27 that they should seek God, if haply they might feel after him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us:
ASV
Acts 17:27
27 that they should seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;
NASB
Acts 17:27
27 "His purpose in all of this was that the nations should seek after God and perhaps feel their way toward him and find him — though he is not far from any one of us.
NLT
Acts 17:27
27 that they should seek God, in the hope that they might feel after him and find him. Yet he is not far from each one of us,
RSV
Answer me this: Did the disciples of Christ seek him, find him and choose him or was it the other way around?
P.S. God WANTED Israel to keep his Mosaic Law Covenant! How did that work out for Israel and Judah?
Pipe Dream?
The fact is God made a way so man could seek Him.
It's in every version of scripture you posted.
Just because man does not seek God does not take away that God created a way.
You just love your MYTH god who sends people to Hell via predestination.
If you love that god so much maybe it will grant you the same wish.
The fact is God made a way so man could seek Him.
It's in every version of scripture you posted.
Just because man does not seek God does not take away that God created a way.
You just love your MYTH god who sends people to Hell via predestination.
If you love that god so much maybe it will grant you the same wish.
Wow! I learn something new here everyday. The entire world is Christ's sheep for whom he laid down his life.
I was lost in unbelief to the done work of Son, trying to do what he has already done. I see differently now after going through under Law first. I know uphold the Law as Good
seeing what Paul says in Gal 3:19-26 and that has taken time over and over again in me messing up and not messing up, getting proud and boastful, thinking I now got it, when I do not, and still mess up, just not as much, being now inner dependent on God Father and Son over the independence this world teaches us to be and then we good, when not one but God is good at least from the view I see presently in Thanksgiving and praise to God over it, that I do not deserve ever to be given it, yet by God am and so are you, you, you and everyone else too
1 John 2:1-4 tells me this and verse 12 of 1 John 4. those verses in between 5-11 is how one responds and simply does it right and not of self either anymore
This be what I am presently learning and standing in it
Thanks for the reply
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God MADE a way for Israel to obey his Holy Law perfectly. Again, how did that work out for Israel?
Why don't you tell us what translation you took Act 17:27? Why are you keeping it a secret? All my translations basically read that "IF PERHAPS they MIGHT grope for him and find him..."
None of the translations say that men would actually seek God! Nor do any say that God decreed that they would seek him. But scripture does say that NO ONE seeks after God because there is none righteous and NO ONE is good! Profane hearts filled with evil will never, never seek after a good. holy God!
Re predestination: You're looking at it all wrong. God didn't predestine ALL fallen mankind to hell like he has done with the fallen angels, has he? So, predestination could be a lot worse. Instead of being thankful that God graciously decreed mankind's cup to be "half" full, you rail against God and the doctrine because you see the cup as being "half" empty. I mean really...what part of Rom 9:21 can't you understand?
Rom 9:21
21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?
NIV
So...if you want to beat your chest and brag how God made a way for the sons of men to seek him, I will boast how the Sovereign Potter has the right to actually make by his decree two different lumps from one lump for his purposes.
You keep railing against God because in your heart of hearts you think God is morally obligated to save mankind...by at least giving everyone under the sun an equal shot at grabbing the gold ring on the merry-go-round of life. If God doesn't run the show as an EOS (Equal Opportunity Savior), then he's unfair, unjust, arbitrary, tyrannical, etc. Poor Adam really got the short end of the stick, didn't he, when God sovereignly excluded him from the Woman's seed? But He really didn't have to save either one of them!
And I'm still waiting for an answer to my question: Did the disciples of Christ seek him, find him and choose him or was it the other way around?
Why don't you tell us what translation you took Act 17:27? Why are you keeping it a secret? All my translations basically read that "IF PERHAPS they MIGHT grope for him and find him..."
None of the translations say that men would actually seek God! Nor do any say that God decreed that they would seek him. But scripture does say that NO ONE seeks after God because there is none righteous and NO ONE is good! Profane hearts filled with evil will never, never seek after a good. holy God!
Re predestination: You're looking at it all wrong. God didn't predestine ALL fallen mankind to hell like he has done with the fallen angels, has he? So, predestination could be a lot worse. Instead of being thankful that God graciously decreed mankind's cup to be "half" full, you rail against God and the doctrine because you see the cup as being "half" empty. I mean really...what part of Rom 9:21 can't you understand?
Rom 9:21
21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?
NIV
So...if you want to beat your chest and brag how God made a way for the sons of men to seek him, I will boast how the Sovereign Potter has the right to actually make by his decree two different lumps from one lump for his purposes.
You keep railing against God because in your heart of hearts you think God is morally obligated to save mankind...by at least giving everyone under the sun an equal shot at grabbing the gold ring on the merry-go-round of life. If God doesn't run the show as an EOS (Equal Opportunity Savior), then he's unfair, unjust, arbitrary, tyrannical, etc. Poor Adam really got the short end of the stick, didn't he, when God sovereignly excluded him from the Woman's seed? But He really didn't have to save either one of them!
And I'm still waiting for an answer to my question: Did the disciples of Christ seek him, find him and choose him or was it the other way around?
Keep posting paragraph after paragraph because the fact is God DID make a way for all lost humans to find Him.
As much as you hate that fact it is the TRUTH...God made a way for ALL humans to find Him.
This also clears up that God died in John 3:16 for EVERY HUMAN Being who ever was born.
I love the TRUTH, it proves the doctrines of Hell for what they are, LIES!!!
As much as you hate that fact it is the TRUTH...God made a way for ALL humans to find Him.
This also clears up that God died in John 3:16 for EVERY HUMAN Being who ever was born.
I love the TRUTH, it proves the doctrines of Hell for what they are, LIES!!!
Your point on God making a way for man to seek Him is correct, but your reasoning is flawed. The way to seek God is in Christ...He is the way. The verses in Acts 17 do not mean as you have said.
And my question still stands. If indeed Jesus has paid for the sins of every human past, present, and future, on what basis does God send someone to hell?
And my question still stands. If indeed Jesus has paid for the sins of every human past, present, and future, on what basis does God send someone to hell?
Through ONE MAN (verse 26), God did verse 27...
27 He did this so they would look for him. He wanted them to reach out and find him. But he is not far from each one of us.
How can you say it's not supported by Scripture when verse 27 is Scripture and clearly proclaims...So God did this and God wanted them to look for Him and find Him??
This is Your precious PAUL preaching, you know, the man you esteem so highly and equal his words to God's!!
27 He did this so they would look for him. He wanted them to reach out and find him. But he is not far from each one of us.
How can you say it's not supported by Scripture when verse 27 is Scripture and clearly proclaims...So God did this and God wanted them to look for Him and find Him??
This is Your precious PAUL preaching, you know, the man you esteem so highly and equal his words to God's!!
But I never said they can or would.
I just said God made a way they could at least seek and find God.
Actually, since God made a way then they could do it. But being in sin they won't do it. They won't even think about doing it. But none of that changes the fact that God made a way so they could do it before Christ was here.
I just said God made a way they could at least seek and find God.
Actually, since God made a way then they could do it. But being in sin they won't do it. They won't even think about doing it. But none of that changes the fact that God made a way so they could do it before Christ was here.