Predestination is misunderstood...
- Thread starter Genez
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
who did the lord speak to here, was it fresh air
Genesis 1:27-28
New International Version
27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.
28 God blessed them and said to them, āBe fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.ā
Genesis 1:27-28
New International Version
27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.
28 God blessed them and said to them, āBe fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.ā
It was my choice to believe. God doesn't do my thinking for me, He is the truth with which to think that's why He designed man with a mind and and a will.
How many verses do you want that shows believing is our responsibility because there are just so many?
Sigh, I do hope you aren't going to go off on the whole "faith is a gift" line because I have gone through this argument with a number already in this thread. Saving faith is a gift from God, it comes from the word. Believing is something God tells us to do and ensures we are given opportunity to do it or not according to our own desires.
How many verses do you want that shows believing is our responsibility because there are just so many?
Sigh, I do hope you aren't going to go off on the whole "faith is a gift" line because I have gone through this argument with a number already in this thread. Saving faith is a gift from God, it comes from the word. Believing is something God tells us to do and ensures we are given opportunity to do it or not according to our own desires.
-
1
- Show all
Ok so what was created here
Genesis 1:27-28
New International Version
27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.
28 God blessed them and said to them, āBe fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.ā
And what was created here
Genesis 2.7
And God formed man from the dust
Genesis 1:27-28
New International Version
27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.
28 God blessed them and said to them, āBe fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.ā
And what was created here
Genesis 2.7
And God formed man from the dust
Is there dust in heaven
Genesis 1:27-28
New International Version
27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.
28 God blessed them and said to them, āBe fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.ā
Genesis 1:27-28
New International Version
27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.
28 God blessed them and said to them, āBe fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.ā
What I cited? Tells you its both...
Those passages tell us what we were chosen for, when we were chosen in Him.
Read those passages again, please?
I pray you will see for yourself what I speak of.
For a Christian to please the Lord?
As a believer priest we must consider and see it for our self.
Not simply learn facts to repeat like we are to take a written exam.
The Word has to become "our own knowledge" in order to become genuine faith.
True knowledge that pleases God is "living in us, and powerful" in our expression of who we are.
grace and pizza....
Those passages tell us what we were chosen for, when we were chosen in Him.
Read those passages again, please?
I pray you will see for yourself what I speak of.
For a Christian to please the Lord?
As a believer priest we must consider and see it for our self.
Not simply learn facts to repeat like we are to take a written exam.
The Word has to become "our own knowledge" in order to become genuine faith.
True knowledge that pleases God is "living in us, and powerful" in our expression of who we are.
grace and pizza....
-
1
- Show all
That is not quite what the Hebrew reveals.
In Genesis 1:27-28 - What was created? Was instantaneous, and created 'out from nothing.' [bara]
What was 'molded and formed" [jatsar] in Genesis 2:7?
That body involved using created matter that had already been created out from nothing [bara] and then "molded and formed" out from the elements of the earth. Molded and formed to provide a 'body' for the soul that was earlier created 'out from nothing in Genesis 1:28.
grace and peace ...............
In Genesis 1:27-28 - What was created? Was instantaneous, and created 'out from nothing.' [bara]
What was 'molded and formed" [jatsar] in Genesis 2:7?
That body involved using created matter that had already been created out from nothing [bara] and then "molded and formed" out from the elements of the earth. Molded and formed to provide a 'body' for the soul that was earlier created 'out from nothing in Genesis 1:28.
grace and peace ...............
In Genesis 1:27-28, God created mankind.
In Genesis 2:7, God formed a specific individual āAdamāāthe lineage that Christ would come through.
Here is that lineage in the book of Luke:
And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli, Which was the son of Matthat, which was the son of Levi, which was the son of Melchi, which was the son of Janna, which was the son of Joseph, Which was the son of Mattathias, which was the son of Amos, which was the son of Naum, which was the son of Esli, which was the son of Nagge, Which was the son of Maath, which was the son of Mattathias, which was the son of Semei, which was the son of Joseph, which was the son of Juda, Which was the son of Joanna, which was the son of Rhesa, which was the son of Zorobabel, which was the son of Salathiel, which was the son of Neri, Which was the son of Melchi, which was the son of Addi, which was the son of Cosam, which was the son of Elmodam, which was the son of Er, Which was the son of Jose, which was the son of Eliezer, which was the son of Jorim, which was the son of Matthat, which was the son of Levi, Which was the son of Simeon, which was the son of Juda, which was the son of Joseph, which was the son of Jonan, which was the son of Eliakim, Which was the son of Melea, which was the son of Menan, which was the son of Mattatha, which was the son of Nathan, which was the son of David, Which was the son of Jesse, which was the son of Obed, which was the son of Booz, which was the son of Salmon, which was the son of Naasson, Which was the son of Aminadab, which was the son of Aram, which was the son of Esrom, which was the son of Phares, which was the son of Juda, Which was the son of Jacob, which was the son of Isaac, which was the son of Abraham, which was the son of Thara, which was the son of Nachor, Which was the son of Saruch, which was the son of Ragau, which was the son of Phalec, which was the son of Heber, which was the son of Sala, Which was the son of Cainan, which was the son of Arphaxad, which was the son of Sem, which was the son of Noe, which was the son of Lamech, Which was the son of Mathusala, which was the son of Enoch, which was the son of Jared, which was the son of Maleleel, which was the son of Cainan, Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.
- Luke 3:23-38 (KJV)
In Genesis 2:7, God formed a specific individual āAdamāāthe lineage that Christ would come through.
Here is that lineage in the book of Luke:
And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli, Which was the son of Matthat, which was the son of Levi, which was the son of Melchi, which was the son of Janna, which was the son of Joseph, Which was the son of Mattathias, which was the son of Amos, which was the son of Naum, which was the son of Esli, which was the son of Nagge, Which was the son of Maath, which was the son of Mattathias, which was the son of Semei, which was the son of Joseph, which was the son of Juda, Which was the son of Joanna, which was the son of Rhesa, which was the son of Zorobabel, which was the son of Salathiel, which was the son of Neri, Which was the son of Melchi, which was the son of Addi, which was the son of Cosam, which was the son of Elmodam, which was the son of Er, Which was the son of Jose, which was the son of Eliezer, which was the son of Jorim, which was the son of Matthat, which was the son of Levi, Which was the son of Simeon, which was the son of Juda, which was the son of Joseph, which was the son of Jonan, which was the son of Eliakim, Which was the son of Melea, which was the son of Menan, which was the son of Mattatha, which was the son of Nathan, which was the son of David, Which was the son of Jesse, which was the son of Obed, which was the son of Booz, which was the son of Salmon, which was the son of Naasson, Which was the son of Aminadab, which was the son of Aram, which was the son of Esrom, which was the son of Phares, which was the son of Juda, Which was the son of Jacob, which was the son of Isaac, which was the son of Abraham, which was the son of Thara, which was the son of Nachor, Which was the son of Saruch, which was the son of Ragau, which was the son of Phalec, which was the son of Heber, which was the son of Sala, Which was the son of Cainan, which was the son of Arphaxad, which was the son of Sem, which was the son of Noe, which was the son of Lamech, Which was the son of Mathusala, which was the son of Enoch, which was the son of Jared, which was the son of Maleleel, which was the son of Cainan, Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.
- Luke 3:23-38 (KJV)
-
1
- Show all
you have calvins all wrong to
Jean calvin taught every living person is divinely sown a seed of religion.
The same thing I have said all along too.
He also says 1 in one hundred may willingly come to God
https://ccel.org/ccel/calvin/institutes/institutes.iii.v.html
Jean Calvin
1. The knowledge of God suppressed by ignorance, many falling away into superstition. Such persons, however, inexcusable, because their error is accompanied with pride and stubbornness.
2. Stubbornness the companion of impiety.
3. No pretext can justify superstition. This proved, first, from reason; and, secondly, from Scripture.
Look here he says it's possible the wicked can willingly come to God but never do.
4. The wicked never willingly come into the presence of God. Hence their hypocrisy. Hence, too, their sense of Deity leads to no good result.
1. But though experience testifies that a seed of religion is divinely sown in all, scarcely one in a hundred is found who cherishes it in his heart, and not one in whom it grows to maturity so far is it from yielding fruit in its season. Moreover, while some lose themselves in superstitious observances, and others, of set purpose, wickedly revolt from God, the result is that, in regard to the true knowledge of him, all are so degenerate, that in no part of the world can genuine godliness be found. In saying that some fall away into superstition, I mean not to insinuate that their excessive absurdity frees them from guilt; for the blindness under which they labour is almost invariably accompanied with vain pride and stubbornness
Jean calvin taught every living person is divinely sown a seed of religion.
The same thing I have said all along too.
He also says 1 in one hundred may willingly come to God
https://ccel.org/ccel/calvin/institutes/institutes.iii.v.html
Jean Calvin
1. The knowledge of God suppressed by ignorance, many falling away into superstition. Such persons, however, inexcusable, because their error is accompanied with pride and stubbornness.
2. Stubbornness the companion of impiety.
3. No pretext can justify superstition. This proved, first, from reason; and, secondly, from Scripture.
Look here he says it's possible the wicked can willingly come to God but never do.
4. The wicked never willingly come into the presence of God. Hence their hypocrisy. Hence, too, their sense of Deity leads to no good result.
1. But though experience testifies that a seed of religion is divinely sown in all, scarcely one in a hundred is found who cherishes it in his heart, and not one in whom it grows to maturity so far is it from yielding fruit in its season. Moreover, while some lose themselves in superstitious observances, and others, of set purpose, wickedly revolt from God, the result is that, in regard to the true knowledge of him, all are so degenerate, that in no part of the world can genuine godliness be found. In saying that some fall away into superstition, I mean not to insinuate that their excessive absurdity frees them from guilt; for the blindness under which they labour is almost invariably accompanied with vain pride and stubbornness
1 Corinthians 1:11-13
My brothers and sisters, some from Chloeās household have informed me
that there are quarrels among you. What I mean is this: One of you says,
āI follow Paulā; another, āI follow Apollosā; another, āI follow Cephasā;
still another, āI follow Christ.ā
Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul?
You follow Calvin only?????
-
1
- Show all
Jean Calvin
The real Jean Calvin
1. The knowledge of God suppressed by ignorance, many falling away into superstition. Such persons, however, inexcusable, because their error is accompanied with pride and stubbornness.
2. Stubbornness the companion of impiety.
3. No pretext can justify superstition. This proved, first, from reason; and, secondly, from Scripture.
Look here he says it's possible the wicked can willingly come to God but never do.
4. The wicked never willingly come into the presence of God. Hence their hypocrisy. Hence, too, their sense of Deity leads to no good result.
1. But though experience testifies that a seed of religion is divinely sown in all, scarcely one in a hundred is found who cherishes it in his heart, and not one in whom it grows to maturity so far is it from yielding fruit in its season. Moreover, while some lose themselves in superstitious observances, and others, of set purpose, wickedly revolt from God, the result is that, in regard to the true knowledge of him, all are so degenerate, that in no part of the world can genuine godliness be found. In saying that some fall away into superstition, I mean not to insinuate that their excessive absurdity frees them from guilt; for the blindness under which they labour is almost invariably accompanied with vain pride and stubbornness
The real Jean Calvin
1. The knowledge of God suppressed by ignorance, many falling away into superstition. Such persons, however, inexcusable, because their error is accompanied with pride and stubbornness.
2. Stubbornness the companion of impiety.
3. No pretext can justify superstition. This proved, first, from reason; and, secondly, from Scripture.
Look here he says it's possible the wicked can willingly come to God but never do.
4. The wicked never willingly come into the presence of God. Hence their hypocrisy. Hence, too, their sense of Deity leads to no good result.
1. But though experience testifies that a seed of religion is divinely sown in all, scarcely one in a hundred is found who cherishes it in his heart, and not one in whom it grows to maturity so far is it from yielding fruit in its season. Moreover, while some lose themselves in superstitious observances, and others, of set purpose, wickedly revolt from God, the result is that, in regard to the true knowledge of him, all are so degenerate, that in no part of the world can genuine godliness be found. In saying that some fall away into superstition, I mean not to insinuate that their excessive absurdity frees them from guilt; for the blindness under which they labour is almost invariably accompanied with vain pride and stubbornness
Why Calvin?
Was he dealing with the problems and evils unique of our day?
Want to go back in time machine and land on Plymouth rock?
Pastors God gives us for our day (a few) will be able to counter the evils of the day we live in.
Calvin was only good for the fundamentals, for baby Christians at best.
What are you after?
-
1
- Show all
When Jesus ascended He gave us the ones to teach us here on earth....
grace and peace .............
He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens,
in order to fill the whole universe.) So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets,
the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, to equip his people for works of service,
so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and
in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole
measure of the fullness of Christ." Ephesians 4:10-12
grace and peace .............