trinity is controversial?

[PaulThomson]

Did the bible says " I and my Father is one" No. Not in the Bible.”-

It’s not in the Bible ?

“I and my Father are one.”
‭‭John‬ ‭10:30‬ ‭KJV‬‬

think of it like this friend

Any unanimous group will say ,"We are one.,"
They would never say, "We is one."

If one starts from the premise that a Triune God could work as one, i.e. unanimously, to incarnate one of the persons into a human body as a human being , as Jesus of Nazareth, who would be the human Jesus' father? Jesus of Nazareth's father would be the triune God who brought him into being in the womb of Mary. All biblical references to "the Father" seem to match what one would expect to see if this premise were true.

Personally, I do not consider one's preference or conviction regarding either trinitarian or unitarian theology has salvific force.

 

[Magenta]

People say, (even here) that a person is "body, soul and spirit" implying that this has
something to do with the Trinity of God although it does not prove that God is a Trinity.

It does not even prove that we are triune .

 

[Cameron143]

Me, myself, and I are triune.

 

[Zandar]

Trinitarians believe the Son is eternal. By definition, sons all have a beginning. The Lord said, this is my begotten son.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Any unanimous group will say ,"We are one.,"
They would never say, "We is one."

If one starts from the premise that a Triune God could work as one, i.e. unanimously, to incarnate one of the persons into a human body as a human being , as Jesus of Nazareth, who would be the human Jesus' father? Jesus of Nazareth's father would be the triune God who brought him into being in the womb of Mary. All biblical references to "the Father" seem to match what one would expect to see if this premise were true.

Personally, I do not consider one's preference or conviction regarding either trinitarian or unitarian theology has salvific force.

Do you believe God became flesh and blood and his name is Jesus ?

 

[bluto]

Trinitarians believe the Son is eternal. By definition, sons all have a beginning. The Lord said, this is my begotten son.

Did it ever occur to that the word "begotten" has more than one meaning, at least according to the Bible. If you don't"t believe me check it out for yourself. Do some homework, that's how you learn.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[Pilgrimshope]

This may also be translated as "God is spirit (what kind of Bing), and they that worship him (God) must worship him i(God) n spirit and in truth.”

It seems like when scripture says what it says people always tell me it doesn’t really mean what it says and then they have to explain to me what it really means .


Can I ask do you believe that Jesus is God manifest in the flesh ?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Did it ever occur to that the word "begotten" has more than one meaning, at least according to the Bible. If you don't"t believe me check it out for yourself. Do some homework, that's how you learn.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

“Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭7:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, And they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭1:18, 21-23‬ ‭

“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

The Lord sent a word into Jacob, and it hath lighted upon Israel.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭9:6-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:14, 16-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.”
‭‭John‬ ‭17:4-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.”
‭‭John‬ ‭20:28-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, And they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.”


“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[bluto]

“Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭7:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, And they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭1:18, 21-23‬ ‭

“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

The Lord sent a word into Jacob, and it hath lighted upon Israel.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭9:6-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:14, 16-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.”
‭‭John‬ ‭17:4-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.”
‭‭John‬ ‭20:28-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, And they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.”


“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I was asking Zandar to check it out for himself because this is how you learn. You then come along with your"copy and paste" job that you've already pasted about 20 times and undermine my purpose.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Any unanimous group will say ,"We are one.,"
They would never say, "We is one."

If one starts from the premise that a Triune God could work as one, i.e. unanimously, to incarnate one of the persons into a human body as a human being , as Jesus of Nazareth, who would be the human Jesus' father? Jesus of Nazareth's father would be the triune God who brought him into being in the womb of Mary. All biblical references to "the Father" seem to match what one would expect to see if this premise were true.

Personally, I do not consider one's preference or conviction regarding either trinitarian or unitarian theology has salvific force.

a group of people or one whole complete individual ?

“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:6-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Do you see how he suprised and seems even offended by “ show us the father ? “ he responds speaking as the father sort of “ what do you mean show you the father ? I’ve been with you all this time and you don’t know who I am still Phillip ? You know me and have seen me “

then he explains how that’s possible “ the father is within me I am one with the father “

already having said beforehand that God is a spirit . It makes sense why Jesus is saying “ the father is within me you know him I’m speaking his words he’s speaking it’s not me “ ect he says this kind of thing many times . In one of the last teachings before his death he says something really interesting when he is promising they will receive the Holy Ghost

“At that day ye shall know that

I am in my Father,( God )

and ye in me, ( the son )

and I in you.”( chrsit in us hope of glory )
‭‭John‬ ‭14:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I was asking Zandar to check it out for himself because this is how you learn. You then come along with your"copy and paste" job that you've already pasted about 20 times and undermine my purpose.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

No worries man I’ll leave you on ignore and there won’t be another issue

 

[bluto]

No worries man I’ll leave you on ignore and there won’t be another issue

Then how are you going to learn?

IN HIM,
bluto

 

[Magenta]

Trinitarians believe the Son is eternal. By definition, sons all have a beginning. The Lord said, this is my begotten son.

Does not mean He did not already exist... Jesus was simply being introduced...

In His humanity He was about thirty years old then, but He pre-existed His humanity.

... and many verses corroborate this .. Jesus' own words, do, too!

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Then how are you going to learn?

IN HIM,
bluto

Lol I’ll study the Bible and believe it lol

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Does not mean He did not already exist... Jesus was simply being introduced...

In His humanity He was about thirty years old then, but He pre-existed His humanity.

... and many verses corroborate this .. Jesus' own words, do, too!

Yeah In the ot he’s called God haha cuz it was before he became flesh !! He’s always been there we just never knew him till he came he’s our creator !!!

 

[Magenta]

Yeah In the ot he’s called God haha cuz it was before he became flesh !! He’s
always been there we just never knew him till he came he’s our creator !!!

Many believe there were "Christophanies" before His birth...

Nehemiah 9:6 plus John 1:3

 

[PaulThomson]

a group of people or one whole complete individual ?

“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:6-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Do you see how he suprised and seems even offended by “ show us the father ? “ he responds speaking as the father sort of “ what do you mean show you the father ? I’ve been with you all this time and you don’t know who I am still Phillip ? You know me and have seen me “

then he explains how that’s possible “ the father is within me I am one with the father “

already having said beforehand that God is a spirit . It makes sense why Jesus is saying “ the father is within me you know him I’m speaking his words he’s speaking it’s not me “ ect he says this kind of thing many times . In one of the last teachings before his death he says something really interesting when he is promising they will receive the Holy Ghost

“At that day ye shall know that

I am in my Father,( God )

and ye in me, ( the son )

and I in you.”( chrsit in us hope of glory )
‭‭John‬ ‭14:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

To my post:
PaulThomson said:
Any unanimous group will say ,"We are one.,"
They would never say, "We is one."

If one starts from the premise that a Triune God could work as one, i.e. unanimously, to incarnate one of the persons into a human body as a human being , as Jesus of Nazareth, who would be the human Jesus' father? Jesus of Nazareth's father would be the triune God who brought him into being in the womb of Mary. All biblical references to "the Father" seem to match what one would expect to see if this premise were true.

Personally, I do not consider one's preference or conviction regarding either trinitarian or unitarian theology has salvific force.

You ask, :
A group of people or one whole complete individual ?
Isn't every person one whole complete individual. A group of persons is never one whole individual. A group of persons is a group of whole complete individuals with varying degrees of unanimity. God would be a group of three Persons whose unanimity perfect, on account of they all three being omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent and beginningless. That is a unique degree of unanimity within any group of persons.

 

[PaulThomson]

It seems like when scripture says what it says people always tell me it doesn’t really mean what it says and then they have to explain to me what it really means .


Can I ask do you believe that Jesus is God manifest in the flesh ?

Yes, .Jesus is God manifest in flesh.

 

[bluto]

Yeah In the ot he’s called God haha cuz it was before he became flesh !! He’s always been there we just never knew him till he came he’s our creator !!!

Do you know where he physically appeared as God in the OT? I'm not talking about in the garden with Adam and Eve? It was at Genesis 16:7.

IN THE ANGEL OF THE LORD,
bluto

 

[PaulThomson]

Trinitarians believe the Son is eternal. By definition, sons all have a beginning. The Lord said, this is my begotten son.

The Word became God's son when the Word became flesh, and became Jesus of Nazareth with God as His Father. However the Word had no beginning, Jesus of Nazareth did have a beginning.