Jesus Was Made Perfect?

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2ndTimothyGroup

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Feb 20, 2021
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#81
I’m about halfway through a book by Thomas Goodwin entitled Christ Set Forth. If you are serious about your question, you may find some answers there. First published in 1642, the writing style takes a minute to adjust too, but as with most Puritan writings, you will come away challenged and blessed. Highly recommended. You can find this book at Banner of Truth.
Thank you so much, Prodigal! Unfortunately, I am whipping through the entire Bible, attempting to write an article each day. I'm on day three with Hebrews 1-6. Brutal. So, I have to keep moving on. Just ten more articles to go and I'm done!!!!

Anyway, please come back as you will see more post over the next 1.5 weeks I'm sure. Thanks again and welcome to to forum!
 

2ndTimothyGroup

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Feb 20, 2021
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#82
It's also an example of how the Spirit can train our thinking over time if we respond to His leading and guidance and sit at His feet and learn from Him.



Good question. We all have our gifts. Learning the languages was impressed upon me. I ended up way more versed in Greek than in Hebrew. Languages were a struggle for me. I literally would come home from classes with very strange headaches. I just thought God was creating new synapses. In the end it became simple.

I'm not sure what's freely available today. Probably quite a bit. I gave up a career to be taught. It was the best investment of time and $ I ever made. If you want to study in the languages:
  1. Concordances are a good start to at least see where specific words are used.
  2. With the basic ability to read a Greek word, the Greek Lexicons become a useful tool. This is the favored today BDAG - others are open source and available on line. I can give you an overview if you'd like some basic info.
  3. These are some sites to the Greek Basics book and author I was trained from in seminary. I'd think with some focused searches one could find many resources today. If you see something you'd like me to take a look at, please feel free to message me:
    1. Bill Mounce
    2. Basic Lessons
  4. This is the advanced grammar we used:
    1. Greek Grammar
    2. Lecture video
There are a lot of resources. Also check the Logos library system and prices of books there. There are a few outstanding software systems available but not cheap. I'd think some on these forums could suggest online systems better than I.

I'd also look at Academia for access to thousands of articles. There are several of such organizations. Logos also has theological journals articles which can be great resources. I pay $50/yr here for access to many Journals. Again, there are other such resources.

Above all, if you have a strong desire to learn such things, then pay attention to it and pray for guidance. Remember that God does not lack resources to make available to you what He wants you to have and to know. You'll probably find that some will tell you you don't need such training. Listen to God. I had no desire to go back to school then I did. I had no desire to teach but was asked to so I did.

Please feel free to message me if you have more questions. I'm kind of rushing with this as we have an appointment to get to.



Thank you for saying so. Same to you.
Big sigh of relief. I have book-marked this post of yours for future reference. But the sigh of relief is finding someone with the right blend of attitude, wisdom, and presentation. I'm at a point where I need mature minds to learn and grow with, from, and through. I have followed you.
 

Prodigal

Active member
May 1, 2024
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#83
Commit your
Big sigh of relief. I have book-marked this post of yours for future reference. But the sigh of relief is finding someone with the right blend of attitude, wisdom, and presentation. I'm at a point where I need mature minds to learn and grow with, from, and through. I have followed you.
Commit your works unto the Lord, and your thoughts will be established.
Sorry, but the reference escapes me, somewhere in Proverbs.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,844
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#84
I may be wrong here, but I think within the Davidic Covenant, there is a passage that states that if Jesus sins, he will be punished for His wrongdoing. 2 Sam 07:11-16
this speaks of Solomon. the context here is the building of the temple
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,179
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#85
Interesting. I thought it was the heart that was tempted. The body obeys the heart. At least that's what I think the Bible reports. Do you think that is wrong?
i don’t really have an opinion if your wrong brother that’s not at all even on my radar of thought . Regarding man’s heart it’s always been deceived and utterly wicked through the knowledge of evil . temptation however is of the flesh I’m just saying this …..look at what the issue is

“And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Watch ye and pray, lest ye enter into temptation. The spirit truly is ready, but the flesh is weak.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭14:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh;

but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:5-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:16-17, 19-21‬ ‭

“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“to deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭5:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Do you see on the terminology how the flesh and spirit are contrary ? One is always good and right the other is always corrupt and to be destroyed ? How the “lusts of the flesh “ are man’s weakness ? And how a man has a spirit and he has flesh and one has to die for the other to live ?

“That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“It is the spirit that quickeneth;

the flesh profiteth nothing:

the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption;

but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭6:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Do you see why I was saying the flesh is the issue and how we are tempted is through the flesh ? And wasn’t talking about this because it is the vehicle for temptation and not the object of it

“The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?”
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭17:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The source of the temptation not it’s target the flesh is our issue and Weakness and also what gets led astray through temptation ( this however brother is only my own thinkin ) and yours also is completely respected

i think there’s a reason for this

“Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:50‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
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#86
Commit your

Commit your works unto the Lord, and your thoughts will be established.
Sorry, but the reference escapes me, somewhere in Proverbs.
Proverbs 16:3 NKJV - "Commit your works to the LORD, And your thoughts will be established."
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
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#87
i don’t really have an opinion if your wrong brother that’s not at all even on my radar of thought . Regarding man’s heart it’s always been deceived and utterly wicked through the knowledge of evil . temptation however is of the flesh I’m just saying this …..look at what the issue is

“And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Watch ye and pray, lest ye enter into temptation. The spirit truly is ready, but the flesh is weak.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭14:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh;

but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:5-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:16-17, 19-21‬ ‭

“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“to deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭5:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Do you see on the terminology how the flesh and spirit are contrary ? One is always good and right the other is always corrupt and to be destroyed ? How the “lusts of the flesh “ are man’s weakness ? And how a man has a spirit and he has flesh and one has to die for the other to live ?

“That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“It is the spirit that quickeneth;

the flesh profiteth nothing:

the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption;

but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭6:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Do you see why I was saying the flesh is the issue and how we are tempted is through the flesh ? And wasn’t talking about this because it is the vehicle for temptation and not the object of it

“The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?”
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭17:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The source of the temptation not it’s target the flesh is our issue and Weakness and also what gets led astray through temptation ( this however brother is only my own thinkin ) and yours also is completely respected

i think there’s a reason for this

“Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:50‬ ‭KJV‬‬
Wowowow so many scriptures! I absolutely don't have the time to go through them, but yes, each time I read of "flesh" it is always considered in light of the context.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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#88
Wowowow so many scriptures! I absolutely don't have the time to go through them, but yes, each time I read of "flesh" it is always considered in light of the context.
yeah there’s a lot of scriptures in the bible thoroughly explaining the subjects we read about in single scriptures . And yeah when it’s talking about the contrary nature of the spirit and flesh of man that is the context
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
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#89
contrary nature of the spirit and flesh of man that is the context
Couldn't disagree more! lol - But that's ok. I like your attitude, as my heart tells me that you genuinely Love others . . . the hallmark of true Christians. :)
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
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#90
Friends, I just wrapped up the first draft of Hebrews 1-6. I'm closing out this thread (for myself), but do join in the next one. I'll post something for Hebrews 7-11, I'm sure of it.

Thanks to everyone for being mature Christians. I feel very fortunate to have each of you here for this amazing journey through the Bible. Thanks again!
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,179
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#91
Couldn't disagree more! lol - But that's ok. I like your attitude, as my heart tells me that you genuinely Love others . . . the hallmark of true Christians. :)
Yeah the same brother you seem a good apple . It’s never an issue if anyone doesnt agree with me . Just leaves me hoping to find a different subject later that we agree on and can learn from each other in a discussion about next time brotheroonie 😂

God bless brother I don’t think God thought “ all
My children will agree on every point all the time in every way or one’s a devil “ ….but we do grow closer in understanding as we relate to each other in discussion there’s never a need for any sort of negative even on disagreement with fellow believers

the details are between the person and Jesus I feel anyhow. I appreciate the discussion and hope your studies are fruitful in the best ways
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,954
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#92
Yeah the same brother you seem a good apple . It’s never an issue if anyone doesnt agree with me . Just leaves me hoping to find a different subject later that we agree on and can learn from each other in a discussion about next time brotheroonie 😂

God bless brother I don’t think God thought “ all
My children will agree on every point all the time in every way or one’s a devil “ ….but we do grow closer in understanding as we relate to each other in discussion there’s never a need for any sort of negative even on disagreement with fellow believers

the details are between the person and Jesus I feel anyhow. I appreciate the discussion and hope your studies are fruitful in the best ways
I Love all of that. You know, in my recent study of the New Testament, it has become clear that the greatest way to prove that we are true Children of God is by whether or not we Love others, proven in our actions and speech with them. Yes, it is easy to Love those within the church, but do we also Love those whom we believe are lost? It amazes me, how many people have charged me with being of the Devil, not a Christian, false teacher, etc . . . and then they scatter like flies in a windstorm, not wanting to be there to pick me up after they rip me limb from limb. Pretty incredible, isn't it?

o_O
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
2,894
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#93
whats the ministry of conciliation ?

“We remain poor and wretched and the best we can hope for is to go to heaven when we die.”

what is it we should be looking for ?

“And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭23:43‬ ‭

“And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for your's is the kingdom of God.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: for where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:19-21‬ ‭

If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.

But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:13-14, 16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:2-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:16-17‬ ‭

“Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwellingplace; and labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it: being defamed, we intreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭4:11-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

christians aren’t promised to be the comfortable wealthy elite of society they are called from the broken and poor the cast aside the lame and rejected they don’t have thier Hope on this world but on what’s after when they get home this worlds treasures and honors are poisonous a

We should be setting our sights on the heavens and our home with the lord and the new creation the new earth he’s promised after death is a bad memory

“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:1, 3-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

brother Christian’s should be ready for the world to reject them and to face a lot of hardship and trials here on this earth we shouldnt plant our roots here but should be looking for the kingdom after our death and resurrection in Christ
This will help. I wrote this a while ago.

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...-who-are-alive-in-christ.211295/#post-5092922
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,844
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#94
Jesus was made perfect because of His experiences? Hmmm....I am unable to see that principle in the Bible anywhere.
when He was baptized, tho He had no need of it, He said it must be done to fulfill all righteousness.

His Messiahship was made complete; He finished the work.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,346
29,593
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#95
Proverbs 16:3 NKJV - "Commit your works to the LORD, And your thoughts will be established."

Proverbs 16:6
The closest panel I have to Proverbs 16:3 is 16:6. I hope you don't mind me posting it .:)
 

selahsays

Well-known member
May 31, 2023
2,796
1,484
113
#96
Apologies for posting another passage without reading the latest responses. But check this out . . .

Hebrews 4:7 NLT - "So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. God announced this through David much later in the words already quoted: "Today when you hear his voice, don't harden your hearts."

Now wait a second!! Isn't there ANOTHER time for the Jews to be awakened and brought back into the Vine of Christ?

Romans 11:25 NLT - "I want you to understand this mystery, dear brothers and sisters, so that you will not feel proud about yourselves. Some of the people of Israel have hard hearts, but this will last only until the full number of Gentiles comes to Christ."

Has this event slipped past me? Has the proper number of Gentiles already been grafted into the Vine? Have the Blessed Jews already awakened and grafted back in? Was that "Day" the Day of Christ?

And the Hebrews plot thickens. Whew.
Ah yes! exciting stuff! To me, Romans 11:25 and Ephesians 1:9-10 both suggest the same time period. I understand this to be talking about the very DAY OF THE LORD when Jesus returns at the 7th trump and He gathers together all things and all who belong to Him from all time!

having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him.

- Ephesians 1:9-10

I love studying with ya. What I put down is just my understanding. :)

a fellow student,
Selah
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,844
13,558
113
#97
The requirements of the covenant was this:

"Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A
scepter of righteousness is
the scepter of Your kingdom."
what part of the unequivocal declaration of His eternal kingdom is a "requirement"?
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,179
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#98
I Love all of that. You know, in my recent study of the New Testament, it has become clear that the greatest way to prove that we are true Children of God is by whether or not we Love others, proven in our actions and speech with them. Yes, it is easy to Love those within the church, but do we also Love those whom we believe are lost? It amazes me, how many people have charged me with being of the Devil, not a Christian, false teacher, etc . . . and then they scatter like flies in a windstorm, not wanting to be there to pick me up after they rip me limb from limb. Pretty incredible, isn't it?

o_O
indeed how we treat other people tangibly is what matters eventually in maturity

“Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3:16-19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the more a person begins to let Christs teachings film them up sadly it does cause things like others accusing or judging even fellow believers can be pretty judgemental .

It becomes good practice for us to deal with those things in a peaceable way

a lot of times studying the scripture can actually change how we act

Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. …For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, And every tongue shall confess to God.

So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.( I don’t have to give a account for anyone else or thier deeds but myself and my deeds )

Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14:4, 9-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

One of the things Jesus died and rose for was to be the o my judge of mankind who he died for when we begin judging one another we’re taking him down from his throne and lifting ourselves up to sit in it
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,179
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#99
when He was baptized, tho He had no need of it, He said it must be done to fulfill all righteousness.

His Messiahship was made complete; He finished the work.
“I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.”
‭‭John‬ ‭17:4-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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Jesus was made perfect because of His experiences? Hmmm....I am unable to see that principle in the Bible anywhere.
Practice makes perfect perhaps? Maybe this is in Proverbs. I have had a lot of practice but far from perfect though.