The Law Poses Two Questions...

[Pilgrimshope]

My only point was that the application of spiritual truth is found in the epistles.

I thought your point before that began this was Jesus words were primarily for the Jews under the law and not the church.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

My point was twofold:
1. Everything that Jesus said was not applicable to the church. The Apostles didn't teach that the church should do as the Pharisees said. This doesn't mean that they didn't teach what Jesus taught them; it means they taught the appropriate parts of what He taught; and
2. Jesus did not exhaustively teach all there was to be known of the new covenant during His time on earth. If He had, there would be no need for further explanation in the books written after His death and resurrection. The epistles explain the Gospels and make application of the Christian faith.

“The epistles explain the Gospels and make application of the Christian faith.”
Yeah the epistles help grasp the gospel nd they also add prophecy regarding the end times and they also help to understand Jesus parables

you know what they don’t do though ? They don’t change the requirements Jesus spoke forth in the gospel repentance , baptism for remission of sins , the basis of eternal judgement based on our works , accountability for sin ect that’s all the same and even better understood in tbe epistles . Nothing I’m the epistles changes the doctrine of Christ

Not accepting epistles had never been an issue in this conversation the epistles are wonderful great revelations very helpful to the church for better understanding amen to all that …..they do not eliminate or change anything Jesus said or change judgement based on our works

The gospel is what saves a person could never in thoer life read a word from Paul or Peter and be saved just based on the things Jesus taught and did in the gospel that’s what saves everyone still

at he epistles are wonderful like the prophets came after Moses law , the apostles came after the gospel and none changed a word

 

[homwardbound]

2. Jesus did not exhaustively teach all there was to be known of the new covenant during His time on earth. If He had, there would be no need for further explanation in the books written after His death and resurrection. The epistles explain the Gospels and make application of the Christian faith.

they do, do that, thanks
As Jesus when risen from the dead explained everything to the disciples, first why he had to die first to take away the sin of the world in his Father's sight first. So Father can now deal with us the people based on a gift given us, once anyone believes God in Jesus is risen from the dead,
Here is the whole truth I see, that got across to the disciples back then.

Jesus hung out for forty days, explaining everything to them. Which we do not get in scripture, what was said to them to do, except this, on that day of pentecost. The Disciples had gotten prepared to only trust God, Jesus's Father (The Holy Spirit) to work his done work of risen Son through them.
Then they heard the disciples speak in their own languages. Was it them speaking or God through them? ( they knew not the languages of those there in that crowd then did they?) yet they heard them speak to them as were told Jesus is risen for them to believe receive and see new ( be Born again in God's Spirit and Truth only)
'they did and spoke back to the disciples, they believe too, they spoke in the disciples language they heard this and so confirmed it, they are now saved too. by God not by any ritual.

It was God, doing the speaking through the Disciples to the crowd there then. Then God speaking back to the disciples confirmed the 3000 of those saved that day.
Amazing grace this is y'all
To see this also from Luke is amazing to stand in belief for God to do it still, in and through me too, not me

Luke 21:14-15

King James Version

14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.


Anyways, God loves us all, otherwise God would not have had Son go to that cross as his ambassador to us the people to get saved in his risen Life once one agrees by God sin today is taken away for them too, to be new in God Father and Son too
Thanks, trusting God to reveal whatever needs to get revealed

 

[Cameron143]

I thought your point before that began this was Jesus words were primarily for the Jews under the law and not the church.

I miswrote. My intention was to point out that Jesus message was to primarily a Jewish audience who were still under an old covenant, and that because of this, parts of it wouldn't apply to the church.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Thank you, agreed, the epistles sort a lot out in me too

you guys both accept the epistles as clear doctrine that sorts it all out ? Me three !!! I thought that’s where this began lol Paul’s epistle to the Roman’s

“But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:5-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

i agree those epistles really present plain straight forward applicable doctrine in them

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭1:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[homwardbound]

I miswrote. My intention was to point out that Jesus message was to primarily a Jewish audience who were still under an old covenant, and that because of this, parts of it wouldn't apply to the church.

Thank you, as we each continue to grow up into the maturity of
God for us. Heb. 5:12- Chapter 6

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I miswrote. My intention was to point out that Jesus message was to primarily a Jewish audience who were still under an old covenant, and that because of this, parts of it wouldn't apply to the church.

they were the church every one of the early church was part of that original Jewish audience …..

The same things were Preached by the Jewish audience he taught to the Jews and gentiles afterwards

were brought into their new covenant the gospel , there isn’t a different one for us

 

[homwardbound]

you guys both accept the epistles as clear doctrine that sorts it all out ? Me three !!! I thought that’s where this began lol Paul’s epistle to the Roman’s

“But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:5-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

i agree those epistles really present plain straight forward applicable doctrine in them

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭1:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Ask God, for to be and see what born again really is from God by Son for each person personally. Continue in that truth of belief, Christ really did die for all sin ever committed and even might be committed again (God forbid), all sin from Father's sight are taken away by Son for us on that cross in his one time willing death once for us all. To now in His resurrection, enter his throne of grace for us to learn new in trust for God to remove those nasty things from us in our filthy bodies that are not redeemed as of yet. We each as for me need to see me as dead to my first birth daily and stand in willingness to continue in that daily.
God gets all the credit, not me at all, thanks Father and Son as Won (One) for us to be as won With you too.

 

[homwardbound]

they were the church every one of the early church was part of that original Jewish audience …..

The same things were Preached by the Jewish audience he taught to the Jews and gentiles afterwards

were brought into their new covenant the gospel , there isn’t a different one for us

yet there is many Churches today, that are not of god at all, even though claiming are.
when the true Church is in truth not Church
What?????????????????????
The original Greek word was Ecclesia, = " the Called out ones" Church in Greek meaning is Building. the word Ecclesia was taken out of the Greek and replaced with Church
As said in Hebrews 8:1-4 if Jesus were here today! he would not be in your Church, being under Law and Grace to mix things up as are today
It is as we, the people have taken Law and grace and tried to mix them together. Telling it as a parable, does water and oil normally mix?
No, right. Yet Anyone, that puts oil and water in a glass, and see them separate, then seal that glass and shake it up. it then appears mixed, does it not? Yet once one puts it down and it settles down, the oil and water separate again.
Do you see what others do in getting you all excited over things to think you got it, when no flesh can please God but son that did it once for us to be in humility not pride and arrogance anymore>?

Anyways, how God puts up with us, being in unredeemed flesh and blood, I am grateful to god over this amazing grace given us in Son for us so deeply, I see how ignorant it is to ever harm anyone again, anyone else, thank you

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Ask God, for to be and see what born again really is from God by Son for each person personally. Continue in that truth of belief, Christ really did die for all sin ever committed and even might be committed again (God forbid), all sin from Father's sight are taken away by Son for us on that cross in his one time willing death once for us all. To now in His resurrection, enter his throne of grace for us to learn new in trust for God to remove those nasty things from us in our filthy bodies that are not redeemed as of yet. We each as for me need to see me as dead to my first birth daily and stand in willingness to continue in that daily.
God gets all the credit, not me at all, thanks Father and Son as Won (One) for us to be as won With you too.

Yes God gets all the credit of course not me or you or anyone else . This doesn’t then mean I should deny what he said and tell everyone not to believe what he actually said like if we dont repent we’re going to perish

thank God in the name of Jesus that he came to earth to tell me the truth so I don’t think it’s ok to keep sinning otherwise I’ll perish

all my poor imperfect self has to do is stop rejecting the truth and believe what God actually said when he came o to the world to tell us the truth

Believing in Hod and thanking God for coming and dying for our sins , this does not erase what he said about being saved , how that if we don’t stop serving satans Will ( sin ) we’re going to perish like all sinners not because God didn’t do all to save us but because we would t hear what he said and believe it as the truth

brother look this is all
I’m saying this is not optional information it’s part of what Christian’s are supposed to believe that’s all im saying if we are believers of what’s taught to believers in the Bible this has to be part of what we believe

“For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

…Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

….Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth;

they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life;

and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:22, 24, 28-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:5-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

ok please realize that’s a true part of biblical Christian faith but now also imagine a person was to believe the gospel that Jesus preached and declared would save those who believed ?

So let’s just say it’s true ( for a moment )we all definitely have to be judged by every word and deed by Jesus our Lord. Who has taught this , and sent it out to all humanity in the gospel

“Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned:

forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

give, and it shall be given unto you;

good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:36-38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Do you see how now if I accept Jesus judgements in the gospel and believe that way the way he taught ……now all of the sudden facing him at judgement day becomes much more acceptable to me having just this one tiny judgement he repeatedly taught believers in him ?

If Learn to actually trust Jesus then I. An actually trust what my Lors and savior taught , I can trust that he sent his doctrine out to save my poor wretched helpless soul and all I have to do is believe the things he taught truly himself like this simple plain principle again from our judge eternal by his word hat will never pass away

“For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If we trust Jesus we can trust the simplicity but then we say “ no no because he died for my sins I don’t need to do anything I’m already forgiven I don’t need to do anything he said I need to do “

this is not really faith . If faith teaches man to believe they don’t need to hear and obey God it’s not from God brother . He’s always going to work on us to get us to believe we need to repent and obey the things gs he said because it will save us

He knows for sure because again he says in the gospel “ if you believe in me accept my words your going to have eternal life and never be condemned , and if you reject me and won’t accept my words your going to be judged by those words you rejected in the end “

he knows because he’s the judge appointed by God and the gospel is his judgements for all

That’s all I’m saying brother it’s all working together a lot of the stuff you guys are saying is not a fallacy or anything like that , but you seem to not want to accept certain things so we put scriptire against itself

it all works together Jesus death covers us but then we are meant to believe his doctrine going forward things like” if you forgive others you’ll be forgiven “ because he died he gets to make our judgements and they are all wonderful and beautiful but also they do require of us they also empower

We can’t get just his blood we have to accept the covenant he made also his judgements are all wonderful

abut often there’s some reason and rhyme we hear to avoid his judgements being part of it

all I’m saying is the other parts are all true as well there’s salvation and forgivness in him always but we have to accept his ways

 

[Pilgrimshope]

they do, do that, thanks
As Jesus when risen from the dead explained everything to the disciples, first why he had to die first to take away the sin of the world in his Father's sight first. So Father can now deal with us the people based on a gift given us, once anyone believes God in Jesus is risen from the dead,
Here is the whole truth I see, that got across to the disciples back then.

Jesus hung out for forty days, explaining everything to them. Which we do not get in scripture, what was said to them to do, except this, on that day of pentecost. The Disciples had gotten prepared to only trust God, Jesus's Father (The Holy Spirit) to work his done work of risen Son through them.
Then they heard the disciples speak in their own languages. Was it them speaking or God through them? ( they knew not the languages of those there in that crowd then did they?) yet they heard them speak to them as were told Jesus is risen for them to believe receive and see new ( be Born again in God's Spirit and Truth only)
'they did and spoke back to the disciples, they believe too, they spoke in the disciples language they heard this and so confirmed it, they are now saved too. by God not by any ritual.

It was God, doing the speaking through the Disciples to the crowd there then. Then God speaking back to the disciples confirmed the 3000 of those saved that day.
Amazing grace this is y'all
To see this also from Luke is amazing to stand in belief for God to do it still, in and through me too, not me

Luke 21:14-15

King James Version

14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.


Anyways, God loves us all, otherwise God would not have had Son go to that cross as his ambassador to us the people to get saved in his risen Life once one agrees by God sin today is taken away for them too, to be new in God Father and Son too
Thanks, trusting God to reveal whatever needs to get revealed

Amen to this for certain

“Anyways, God loves us all,”

and this too

“Thanks, trusting God to reveal whatever needs to get revealed”

It’s definately as your saying a personal relationship between each person and we are all at different stages all of us have a savior with us when we begin believing at the first and it’s up to he and the believer to work things out

We don’t want to reject what he’s teaching us to do though by saying “ I’ll just trust him “ if we trust God his word is reliable

 

[Pilgrimshope]

yet there is many Churches today, that are not of god at all, even though claiming are.
when the true Church is in truth not Church
What?????????????????????
The original Greek word was Ecclesia, = " the Called out ones" Church in Greek meaning is Building. the word Ecclesia was taken out of the Greek and replaced with Church
As said in Hebrews 8:1-4 if Jesus were here today! he would not be in your Church, being under Law and Grace to mix things up as are today
It is as we, the people have taken Law and grace and tried to mix them together. Telling it as a parable, does water and oil normally mix?
No, right. Yet Anyone, that puts oil and water in a glass, and see them separate, then seal that glass and shake it up. it then appears mixed, does it not? Yet once one puts it down and it settles down, the oil and water separate again.
Do you see what others do in getting you all excited over things to think you got it, when no flesh can please God but son that did it once for us to be in humility not pride and arrogance anymore>?

Anyways, how God puts up with us, being in unredeemed flesh and blood, I am grateful to god over this amazing grace given us in Son for us so deeply, I see how ignorant it is to ever harm anyone again, anyone else, thank you

If Jesus were here today in person he would be preaching the same gospel he sent out to us lol

 

[posthuman]

To some degree for Gentile Christians. See Acts 15.

The prohibited things in Acts 15:20 are the things for which the Jews would not allow someone into the Gentile court of the temple.

 

[homwardbound]

“For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If we trust Jesus we can trust the simplicity but then we say “ no no because he died for my sins I don’t need to do anything I’m already forgiven I don’t need to do anything he said I need to do “

You judge it as you wish, thank you, God loves us all as we are to us, to willingly trust God to work out his salvation for us by Son's done work to us
Believe God, receive from God and be new in God as born again from God and love all, not a few as only the flesh only knows only how to do. It is love only from God that frees one from being a god in themselves, Psalms 82:1-6 reveals we are gods, just not the most high God
Today after the cross one in belief, loves and forgives now differently
We love and forgive because we are forgiven and loved first by Son first as resurrected for us to be that too in God Father's Spirit and Truth as equals, thank you

 

[Pilgrimshope]

You judge it as you wish, thank you, God loves us all as we are to us, to willingly trust God to work out his salvation for us by Son's done work to us
Believe God, receive from God and be new in God as born again from God and love all, not a few as only the flesh only knows only how to do. It is love only from God that frees one from being a god in themselves, Psalms 82:1-6 reveals we are gods, just not the most high God
Today after the cross one in belief, loves and forgives now differently
We love and forgive because we are forgiven and loved first by Son first as resurrected for us to be that too in God Father's Spirit and Truth as equals, thank you

yeah God will work out our salvation if we don’t reject what he says.

 

[homwardbound]

yeah God will work out our salvation if we don’t reject what he says.

Amen, God knows as said to us all in


Romans 8:15-16

King James Version

15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Amen, God knows as said to us all in


Romans 8:15-16

King James Version

15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Indeed

The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God

“And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭23:9‬ ‭

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48-50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[homwardbound]

Indeed

The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God

“And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭23:9‬ ‭

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48-50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Thank you brother in the risen Son for us to walk new in Father, the Holy Spirit given us to do as called. Love all the same as Son did, going to that cross first to get risen and did and made an open spectacle of those that got him killed, revealed in Col 2

Luke 21:14-15

King James Version

14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Thank you brother in the risen Son for us to walk new in Father, the Holy Spirit given us to do as called. Love all the same as Son did, going to that cross first to get risen and did and made an open spectacle of those that got him killed, revealed in Col 2

Luke 21:14-15

King James Version

14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

Yes Jesus spoke a lot of truth when he came to the world in order to save us who believe him.

Do you see how his word will change how a believer thinks if we don’t reject it ? How it’s calling those who hear and believe to act upon thier new faith ?

“And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: he is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.



But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:46-49‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this calls to a believer that t doesn’t mean a thing to someone who won’t hear it but to a believer it’s calling then from inactive faith into active saving faith that acts on what God said ?

 

[p_rehbein]

You didn't answer the questions I asked. If everything Jesus said was for the Church, if He were to come back today,would He tell the church to do as the Pharisees say? Why or why not?

Everything He preached was for all mankind. Some was condemnation of the Jews, some was for direction, some was for knowledge, and some was for Historical purposes. Just as is the Old Testament, His Gospel serves all mankind. It is KNOWLEDGE. iT ALSO CONTAINS THE PATH TO ETERNAL LIFE.

Of course He would not tell the Church to follow the teachings of the Pharisees. You KNOW VERY WELL that He came to fulfill the Law and to establish the New Covenant, Grace.

Your questions are not worthy of your knowledge of Scripture IMO.