Revisiting The Language of the Great Harlot

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
3,045
1,800
113
#1
Just for clarity: a harlot sits opposed to the wife of a man. She is a prostitute. She offers some of the benefits of the wife (mostly in sexual favors) but none of the enduring substance of a marriage covenant. The Great Harlot is mentioned in Revelation chapter 17. She is shown to be "drunk with the blood of the saints". This includes the blood of Abel up to and including our day when believers are killed for their faith. She is opposed to the Bride who is joined to her husband Christ Jesus.

Historic church groups have insisted, for a long time, on speaking Latin, a dead language. Why do you suppose they couch biblical inquiries in these impossible-to-pronounce words?

Would you ever see Jesus doing that in His sermons? Like His Sermon on the Mount, can you hear Jesus engaging in a discussion about convoluted theological things? Would Jesus, for example, explain His return by using language like “the immanence of the eschaton.” Eschatology is the doctrine of last things. Would you hear Jesus referring to anything that way? In the discussions about Christ, the harlot church has engaged ponderous terms.

These things were intentionally hyper-inflated to make the average folk believe that they could never reach God. In the Middle Ages, these words were often spoken in cathedrals, the architecture of which was designed to minimize the human presence within the structure. As they developed more sophistication, they would strain the sunlight through stained glass windows to make the interior of the church building look like it was what you would envision the location of the throne of God to be. These were just intentionally deceptive things to increase and to maintain the division between the people and God, and to consolidate power in the group that called itself the clergy.

“Clergy” is derived from the word kleroo, which means you have an inheritance from God, which is the basic truth of being a son of God. But they, as thieves and robbers do, developed a scheme to shake down the "common people" for all their resources. The common people were called laity. And they were named so to indicate that they had no inheritance from God, but would only have the crumbs that fall from the tables of the clergy. A sermon from the member of a clergy was promoted as the only way the laity could eat anything from God's table.

So, clergy invented words like monophysitism, monoenergism, monothelitism from the word thelema, which means “will.” They talked about whether Christ was God or man. Earlier versions of that would be whether a Holy God could ever dwell in a corrupt vessel. They created tensions where there were no tensions. They did so, in part, to try to explain things that would be explained by the revelation of the Scriptures, but they forged ahead, absent the revelation of the Holy Spirit, to employ reason to bridge the gap. They posed important sounding questions like Was Jesus of the one substance of God, or was He God and man? Anyone who had the revelation of the Body of Christ and Him being comprised of human beings who had been elevated from the dead by the Spirit of God and energized with the life of God would know the answer.

But in the framing of these discussions to support institutional paradigms—which is what the harlot clothed herself with as she approached kings: with offices that had biblical sounding names but were empty of any content that was divinely inspired, divinely understood, or divinely practiced— she was able to create this illusion of importance based on the usage of high-sounding words.

By this: She defined God in ways that closed up the Book again. That which was timely to be revealed, she reclothed it in mysteries, when God always intended the children’s bread would be the revelation of the nature of God. Do you think God was going to make it so difficult to understand? No. That is the paint on the face of a harlot. That is the garb the harlot wears to give you the impression that she is something special when, in truth, she is just a common opportunist with a heart that has never been given to anybody else, a calculating, hard-edged entity that looked for the profit in every transaction. Not a nice person. No one you would want to put your trust or your confidence in.

Why do you think that the "high" church has so routinely betrayed those who put their trust in it? So many men and women of faith killed. So many children raped and abused... Why do you think this harlot is unable to deliver love and caring? Because it is not in the nature of a harlot. She cannot do it. She only cares about herself. She has set herself up as the arbiter of truth so she will take everything from the people to fill her cup. And why not? In her mind it all belongs to her anyway.
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
3,045
1,800
113
#3
The harlot is not the Roman Catholic Church if that is your point.
No. Not my point.

If you read what I posted you'll see she is to blame for Abel's death: long before the RCC. The RCC and many other churches use the language of the Harlot but they are not the Harlot themselves.
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
6,342
2,468
113
#4
No. Not my point.

If you read what I posted you'll see she is to blame for Abel's death: long before the RCC. The RCC and many other churches use the language of the Harlot but they are not the Harlot themselves.
Well, Latin is not difficult to pronounce but I am still not grasping your thesis really yet.
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
3,045
1,800
113
#5
Well, Latin is not difficult to pronounce but I am still not grasping your thesis really yet.
I underlined it in the post: "These things were intentionally hyper-inflated to make the average folk believe that they could never reach God. "

And

"She defined God in ways that closed up the Book again."

The Harlot means to keep God at a distance from the people: having them believe that He cannot be known.
 
Dec 27, 2018
1,642
164
63
#6
Just for clarity: a harlot sits opposed to the wife of a man. She is a prostitute. She offers some of the benefits of the wife (mostly in sexual favors) but none of the enduring substance of a marriage covenant. The Great Harlot is mentioned in Revelation chapter 17. She is shown to be "drunk with the blood of the saints". This includes the blood of Abel up to and including our day when believers are killed for their faith. She is opposed to the Bride who is joined to her husband Christ Jesus.

Historic church groups have insisted, for a long time, on speaking Latin, a dead language. Why do you suppose they couch biblical inquiries in these impossible-to-pronounce words?

Would you ever see Jesus doing that in His sermons? Like His Sermon on the Mount, can you hear Jesus engaging in a discussion about convoluted theological things? Would Jesus, for example, explain His return by using language like “the immanence of the eschaton.” Eschatology is the doctrine of last things. Would you hear Jesus referring to anything that way? In the discussions about Christ, the harlot church has engaged ponderous terms.

These things were intentionally hyper-inflated to make the average folk believe that they could never reach God. In the Middle Ages, these words were often spoken in cathedrals, the architecture of which was designed to minimize the human presence within the structure. As they developed more sophistication, they would strain the sunlight through stained glass windows to make the interior of the church building look like it was what you would envision the location of the throne of God to be. These were just intentionally deceptive things to increase and to maintain the division between the people and God, and to consolidate power in the group that called itself the clergy.

“Clergy” is derived from the word kleroo, which means you have an inheritance from God, which is the basic truth of being a son of God. But they, as thieves and robbers do, developed a scheme to shake down the "common people" for all their resources. The common people were called laity. And they were named so to indicate that they had no inheritance from God, but would only have the crumbs that fall from the tables of the clergy. A sermon from the member of a clergy was promoted as the only way the laity could eat anything from God's table.

So, clergy invented words like monophysitism, monoenergism, monothelitism from the word thelema, which means “will.” They talked about whether Christ was God or man. Earlier versions of that would be whether a Holy God could ever dwell in a corrupt vessel. They created tensions where there were no tensions. They did so, in part, to try to explain things that would be explained by the revelation of the Scriptures, but they forged ahead, absent the revelation of the Holy Spirit, to employ reason to bridge the gap. They posed important sounding questions like Was Jesus of the one substance of God, or was He God and man? Anyone who had the revelation of the Body of Christ and Him being comprised of human beings who had been elevated from the dead by the Spirit of God and energized with the life of God would know the answer.

But in the framing of these discussions to support institutional paradigms—which is what the harlot clothed herself with as she approached kings: with offices that had biblical sounding names but were empty of any content that was divinely inspired, divinely understood, or divinely practiced— she was able to create this illusion of importance based on the usage of high-sounding words.

By this: She defined God in ways that closed up the Book again. That which was timely to be revealed, she reclothed it in mysteries, when God always intended the children’s bread would be the revelation of the nature of God. Do you think God was going to make it so difficult to understand? No. That is the paint on the face of a harlot. That is the garb the harlot wears to give you the impression that she is something special when, in truth, she is just a common opportunist with a heart that has never been given to anybody else, a calculating, hard-edged entity that looked for the profit in every transaction. Not a nice person. No one you would want to put your trust or your confidence in.

Why do you think that the "high" church has so routinely betrayed those who put their trust in it? So many men and women of faith killed. So many children raped and abused... Why do you think this harlot is unable to deliver love and caring? Because it is not in the nature of a harlot. She cannot do it. She only cares about herself. She has set herself up as the arbiter of truth so she will take everything from the people to fill her cup. And why not? In her mind it all belongs to her anyway.

No ,Jesus doesn't play around.He just come straight out and says who is responsible for the blood of Able.

He called it by the name "Jerusalem."


34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
3,045
1,800
113
#7
No ,Jesus doesn't play around.He just come straight out and says who is responsible for the blood of Able.

He called it by the name "Jerusalem."


34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
Yet, in this passage we have Abel's death which occurred perhaps 900 years before Jerusalem was founded. ;)
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,112
4,374
113
#8
Just for clarity: a harlot sits opposed to the wife of a man. She is a prostitute. She offers some of the benefits of the wife (mostly in sexual favors) but none of the enduring substance of a marriage covenant. The Great Harlot is mentioned in Revelation chapter 17. She is shown to be "drunk with the blood of the saints". This includes the blood of Abel up to and including our day when believers are killed for their faith. She is opposed to the Bride who is joined to her husband Christ Jesus.

Historic church groups have insisted, for a long time, on speaking Latin, a dead language. Why do you suppose they couch biblical inquiries in these impossible-to-pronounce words?

Would you ever see Jesus doing that in His sermons? Like His Sermon on the Mount, can you hear Jesus engaging in a discussion about convoluted theological things? Would Jesus, for example, explain His return by using language like “the immanence of the eschaton.” Eschatology is the doctrine of last things. Would you hear Jesus referring to anything that way? In the discussions about Christ, the harlot church has engaged ponderous terms.

These things were intentionally hyper-inflated to make the average folk believe that they could never reach God. In the Middle Ages, these words were often spoken in cathedrals, the architecture of which was designed to minimize the human presence within the structure. As they developed more sophistication, they would strain the sunlight through stained glass windows to make the interior of the church building look like it was what you would envision the location of the throne of God to be. These were just intentionally deceptive things to increase and to maintain the division between the people and God, and to consolidate power in the group that called itself the clergy.

“Clergy” is derived from the word kleroo, which means you have an inheritance from God, which is the basic truth of being a son of God. But they, as thieves and robbers do, developed a scheme to shake down the "common people" for all their resources. The common people were called laity. And they were named so to indicate that they had no inheritance from God, but would only have the crumbs that fall from the tables of the clergy. A sermon from the member of a clergy was promoted as the only way the laity could eat anything from God's table.

So, clergy invented words like monophysitism, monoenergism, monothelitism from the word thelema, which means “will.” They talked about whether Christ was God or man. Earlier versions of that would be whether a Holy God could ever dwell in a corrupt vessel. They created tensions where there were no tensions. They did so, in part, to try to explain things that would be explained by the revelation of the Scriptures, but they forged ahead, absent the revelation of the Holy Spirit, to employ reason to bridge the gap. They posed important sounding questions like Was Jesus of the one substance of God, or was He God and man? Anyone who had the revelation of the Body of Christ and Him being comprised of human beings who had been elevated from the dead by the Spirit of God and energized with the life of God would know the answer.

But in the framing of these discussions to support institutional paradigms—which is what the harlot clothed herself with as she approached kings: with offices that had biblical sounding names but were empty of any content that was divinely inspired, divinely understood, or divinely practiced— she was able to create this illusion of importance based on the usage of high-sounding words.

By this: She defined God in ways that closed up the Book again. That which was timely to be revealed, she reclothed it in mysteries, when God always intended the children’s bread would be the revelation of the nature of God. Do you think God was going to make it so difficult to understand? No. That is the paint on the face of a harlot. That is the garb the harlot wears to give you the impression that she is something special when, in truth, she is just a common opportunist with a heart that has never been given to anybody else, a calculating, hard-edged entity that looked for the profit in every transaction. Not a nice person. No one you would want to put your trust or your confidence in.

Why do you think that the "high" church has so routinely betrayed those who put their trust in it? So many men and women of faith killed. So many children raped and abused... Why do you think this harlot is unable to deliver love and caring? Because it is not in the nature of a harlot. She cannot do it. She only cares about herself. She has set herself up as the arbiter of truth so she will take everything from the people to fill her cup. And why not? In her mind it all belongs to her anyway.

Her feet take hold of hell and the grave
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
6,342
2,468
113
#9
I underlined it in the post: "These things were intentionally hyper-inflated to make the average folk believe that they could never reach God. "

And

"She defined God in ways that closed up the Book again."

The Harlot means to keep God at a distance from the people: having them believe that He cannot be known.

I see, that is an interesting take, but in practical terms when Latin was still used it was still known and read by those who used it and it was still taught in high school and Universities.

Since many words in law and medicine have Latin root words it was viewed as a worthwhile language to learn for studies in those areas.

On a personal note, as a young child I did not see Latin as a barrier to knowing God but it did create in me a sense of reverence which
I think is missing in modern worship.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,670
5,913
113
#10
No. Not my point.

If you read what I posted you'll see she is to blame for Abel's death: long before the RCC. The RCC and many other churches use the language of the Harlot but they are not the Harlot themselves.
“And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭17:16-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

who did God say this about in the ot what city ?
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,670
5,913
113
#11
Yet, in this passage we have Abel's death which occurred perhaps 900 years before Jerusalem was founded. ;)


“Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭23:34-35‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,623
13,867
113
#12
On a personal note, as a young child I did not see Latin as a barrier to knowing God but it did create in me a sense of reverence which I think is missing in modern worship.
What you experienced was emotional manipulation, no different than that created by loud music or empassioned rhetoric. It’s all merely human attempts to elicit awe. In truth, when the Holy Spirit shows up, the people will be awe-full… pun intended, and no manipulation required. ;)
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
3,045
1,800
113
#13
I see, that is an interesting take, but in practical terms when Latin was still used it was still known and read by those who used it and it was still taught in high school and Universities.

Since many words in law and medicine have Latin root words it was viewed as a worthwhile language to learn for studies in those areas.

On a personal note, as a young child I did not see Latin as a barrier to knowing God but it did create in me a sense of reverence which
I think is missing in modern worship.
Regarding the RCC: this explains their obsession with artifacts. Since God is far from the common man, one can experience His presence when in proximity to the spear shaft, the watermark that looks like Mary, the supposed crown of thorns, the opulence of the temples, etc.
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
6,342
2,468
113
#14
Regarding the RCC: this explains their obsession with artifacts. Since God is far from the common man, one can experience His presence when in proximity to the spear shaft, the watermark that looks like Mary, the supposed crown of thorns, the opulence of the temples, etc.

Yes I would agree to some degree.
I never remember being taught God was far from the common man but rather that the sacraments which were the vehicles of grace, so God was accessible but only in the way they prescribed.
I think seeing an organization in a homogeneous way, creates a straw man situation because there are will always be outliers.
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
6,342
2,468
113
#15
What you experienced was emotional manipulation, no different than that created by loud music or empassioned rhetoric. It’s all merely human attempts to elicit awe. In truth, when the Holy Spirit shows up, the people will be awe-full… pun intended, and no manipulation required. ;)
I revered God before I was saved, I guess I was just that type of person that had this sense of respect towards the creator of the universe.

Sorry, I am not a charismatic, tongues in Corinth were languages (perhaps new to the congregation) not some supernatural move of God, and no the Holy Spirit does not show up, He is there whenever Christians are gathered in His name.
 
Dec 27, 2018
1,642
164
63
#16
I revered God before I was saved, I guess I was just that type of person that had this sense of respect towards the creator of the universe.

Sorry, I am not a charismatic, tongues in Corinth were languages (perhaps new to the congregation) not some supernatural move of God, and no the Holy Spirit does not show up, He is there whenever Christians are gathered in His name.
I was alone in my house when the holy Ghost was given to me or showed up as to say.No other humans there.
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
3,045
1,800
113
#17
Yes I would agree to some degree.
I never remember being taught God was far from the common man but rather that the sacraments which were the vehicles of grace, so God was accessible but only in the way they prescribed.
I think seeing an organization in a homogeneous way, creates a straw man situation because there are will always be outliers.
Outliers are atypical anomalies from the norm.

But you make a good point: In the Roman Church, the relics and sacraments are the “vehicles of grace”.

The scriptures teach, in 1st Peter ironically, that believers are the vehicles of grace.

“Be hospitable to one another without grumbling. As each one has received a gift, minister it to one another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.”
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,112
4,374
113
#18
Many make a good point about the false teaching and control of the RCC today. However, many in the Evangelical churches have left the Gospel message. The Great Harlot is always unfaithful.

  • Unfaithful to the truth
  • Unfaithful to the Gospel of Jesus Christ
  • Unfaithful to the body of Christ
The Harlot takes the appearance of the faithful bride but is perverted. To attract foolish men to come into her chambers
Then kills them and takes them to hell. That is the MO of the Great Harlot.
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
6,342
2,468
113
#19
Outliers are atypical anomalies from the norm.

But you make a good point: In the Roman Church, the relics and sacraments are the “vehicles of grace”.

The scriptures teach, in 1st Peter ironically, that believers are the vehicles of grace.

“Be hospitable to one another without grumbling. As each one has received a gift, minister it to one another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.”

Me thinks, I should know something about it, since I was raised and went to RCC schools and even took a few post-secondary courses on the doctrines of the RCC faith, "faith" as in a body of doctrine.
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
6,342
2,468
113
#20
Outliers are atypical anomalies from the norm.
I think that is what I stated, instead of norm I used "homogeneous" wanting to express the idea of likeness or sameness throughout as opposed to the statistical understanding of outliers. :unsure: