Did Jesus Have an Advantage over Pre-Fall Adam During the Incarnation?

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sawdust

sawdust

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montana123 said:
Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit.

God was manifest in the flesh which Jesus is a visible image of the invisible God.

God laid down His life for us, and purchased the Church with His own blood.

Which Jesus is the fulness of the Godhead bodily, which He has the Spirit without measure, and it pleased the Father that in Him all fulness shall dwell.

The man Christ Jesus is the personal human body of God.

Of course He had an advantage, and He could not sin which the Bible says He was tempted in all points like we are but without sin.

Jesus was always led of the Spirit nothing wavering.

Which the Bible says a Spirit led person will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh, for they have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Jesus said He did not come to destroy the law, but He came to fulfill it.

Which He is the perfect King, Prophet, High Priest, Saint, Mediator, Savior, a sinless man, the temple, and the sacrifice.

But He has not fulfilled the role of perfect King which must be done on Earth which that is what the millennial reign is about, and when He does that then heaven and earth shall pass away, and there will be a new heaven and earth.

Which He had to do everything a person had to do to be right with God for people to receive salvation, and He had to do it for His whole earthly life.

It has to take a sinless man that never sinned in order for mankind to receive salvation.

No person is sinless so God manifest Himself in flesh and became the sinless man, which He reconciled the world unto Himself in the person of Jesus Christ, God and man in harmony, and all who are led of the Spirit being Christlike is in harmony with God.

The Bible says Jesus dwells in the light whom no person can approach unto, and no person has seen Him, and no person will ever see Him for He is an invisible Spirit but He showed a visible image of Himself which we will see His visible image in heaven which is a glorified body which the saints will receive the same.
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There's a difference between not being able to sin and not wanting to sin. If it was impossible for Jesus to sin then He did not live as a man.

No person is sinless because the Lord God imputed Adam's sin to all mankind. There's no reason to think that all would have sinned if we had been born as Adam was created. Two thirds of the angels never sinned. Sinning under those conditions is optional, not inevitable.

Jesus cannot rely on being God in order to live the perfect human life because if He did, He is not living the perfect human life. People need to stop looking at His Deity to see if He had an advantage, that goes without saying. The comparison is with His humanity.

Did he have an ace up His sleeve in His humanity?
 
Cameron143

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sawdust said:
There's a difference between not being able to sin and not wanting to sin. If it was impossible for Jesus to sin then He did not live as a man.

No person is sinless because the Lord God imputed Adam's sin to all mankind. There's no reason to think that all would have sinned if we had been born as Adam was created. Two thirds of the angels never sinned. Sinning under those conditions is optional, not inevitable.

Jesus cannot rely on being God in order to live the perfect human life because if He did, He is not living the perfect human life. People need to stop looking at His Deity to see if He had an advantage, that goes without saying. The comparison is with His humanity.

Did he have an ace up His sleeve in His humanity?
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In John 14:30 Jesus says the prince of the world cometh, but that he hath nothing in Me. Have you considered this verse before and, if so, do you have a take on it?
 
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PaulThomson

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Cameron143 said:
In John 14:30 Jesus says the prince of the world cometh, but that he hath nothing in Me. Have you considered this verse before and, if so, do you have a take on it?
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It probably means "I haven't fallen into temptation and sin yet, so I remain free of the devil's control." Whatsoever we obey, to that we are a slave.
 
ewq1938

ewq1938

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sawdust said:
Hebrews 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

Makes me wonder what you think of Christ's humanity. You said yourself He lived as a man yet you think this man didn't need faith.
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Of course God doesn't need faith because he is God even if incarnated into a man's body.
 
sawdust

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Cameron143 said:
In John 14:30 Jesus says the prince of the world cometh, but that he hath nothing in Me. Have you considered this verse before and, if so, do you have a take on it?
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The devil is known as the accuser. (Rev.12:10) There is no accusation he can bring against Jesus Christ that is valid.
 
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PaulThomson

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Cameron143 said:
Think that means we understand creation by faith.
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Does that twist apply to the rest of the list of acts done by believers? We understand by faith that Abraham left Ur when called by God?
 
Cameron143

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PaulThomson said:
Does that twist apply to the rest of the list of acts done by believers? We understand by faith that Abraham left Ur when called by God?
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No. The others are speaking particularly to how named individuals exhibited their faith.
 
sawdust

sawdust

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PaulThomson said:
Hebrews 11 says "By Faith God created..."
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He keeps missing the point. Christ did not live as God during the Incarnation, He lived as a man and therefore needed to have faith as any man would need in order to please God.
 
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PaulThomson

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sawdust said:
He keeps missing the point. Christ did not live as God during the Incarnation, He lived as a man and therefore needed to have faith as any man would need in order to please God.
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As I was discussing this issue of whether Christ was omniscient and omnipotent and onmipresent between His conception and His post-resurrection glorification, to describe the voluntary limitation the Son had subjected Himself to, I used the terminology of the Son giving up deity. I met another poster who had the same understanding of the Son becoming voluntarily limited, but who used terminology that the Son still had deity, since He was an ever-existing Person before his incarnation, during his earthly ministry and after His post-resurrection, and only deity is ever-existing.

Many, many Christians have been indoctrinated with the platonic theory that any uncaused first Cause (i.e. God) must be immutable, omnipresent, omnipotent, omnipresent, impassible and ever-existing; and also assume that any person who lacks any of these characteristic cannot be God while lacking them. On top of this, commitment to the theory of divine immutability makes it impossible for those holding to it to countenance even one of the divine Persons giving up even one of these attributes at any time. So, as long as these Christians are wedded to the traditions of men, and are unwilling to read scripture without having to make it fit those traditional presuppositions, they will continue to be outraged at any suggestion that Jesus was less powerful, less present, or less knowledgable, during His humiliation, even though He Himself states in the gospels that he was.

John 11:14-15 Then Jesus said to them plainly, "Lazarus is dead. And I am glad for your sakes that I was not there."

Mark 13;32 But of that day and hour knows no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

John 14:10-11 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father in me? the words that I speak to you I do not speak of myself; but the Father that dwells in Me, He does the works. Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me; or else believe Me for the works sake.
 
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PaulThomson

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maxwel said:
Adam was a man, and only a man.

Jesus was God.

Since there is a difference between man and God, there is a difference between Adam and Jesus.




There is no confusion here, unless we first abandon scripture and orthodoxy.

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There is nothing wrong with abandoning orthodoxy (so called) for the sake of adhering to scripture.
 
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fellow_worker_12

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sawdust said:
I have discussed this a couple of times with others, never coming to any consensus. I thought I would open the discussion here. Some say because He is God, He did have an advantage, others have been unsure.

What say you?
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Jesus in his pre-human form, as the first born of all creation, spent A LOT of time with his Father. He had time to cultivate so much appreciation and love for Him (Colossians 1: 15; Proverbs 8: 22; Revelation 3: 14). So on one hand, you could say Adam did not have this advantage, however, consider the task that each man had.

Jesus, although having so much more love and appreciation for God, also had a much more challenging task (1 Peter 2: 23); unjustly executed, in a painful and humiliating way. As for Adam, his test of faith did not require any pain, sacrifice, humiliation, suffering. All he had to do was focus on all the good things he had been given, and not focus on the one thing he could not have; it was simply a matter of gratitude (Genesis 2: 16 - 17 ).

Relative to their tests, one could say neither had an advantage, but their strength was commensurate to their task.

https://t.ly/YZOc8
 
selahsays

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fellow_worker_12 said:
Jesus in his pre-human form, as the first born of all creation, spent A LOT of time with his Father. He had time to cultivate so much appreciation and love for Him (Colossians 1: 15; Proverbs 8: 22; Revelation 3: 14). So on one hand, you could say Adam did not have this advantage, however, consider the task that each man had.

Jesus, although having so much more love and appreciation for God, also had a much more challenging task (1 Peter 2: 23); unjustly executed, in a painful and humiliating way. As for Adam, his test of faith did not require any pain, sacrifice, humiliation, suffering. All he had to do was focus on all the good things he had been given, and not focus on the one thing he could not have; it was simply a matter of gratitude (Genesis 2: 16 - 17 ).

Relative to their tests, one could say neither had an advantage, but their strength was commensurate to their task.

https://t.ly/YZOc8
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Jesus IS God.

Welcome to CC. :)
 
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