Salvation is a Free Gift.

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rogerg

Well-known member
#241
Jul 13, 2021
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#241
PaulThomson said:
Jesus said, "No one van come to me unless the Father draws Him." Judas came to Jesus and was part of His inner circle. How did he come to Jesus without the Father drawing Him?

So did scribes and pharisees come to Jesus to argue Matt. 15:1. How did they come to Jesus without being drawn by the Father.
Matt. 19:3 Phatrisees came to Jesus to test Him.
Matt 15:30 Crowds came to Jesus to be healed.

All were drawn to Him by the Father, according to Jesus.
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Hmmm. I don't find "drawn" mentioned in any of those verses. You must have meant some other ones.

[Jhn 6:64-65 KJV]
64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
 
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PaulThomson

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#243
Oct 29, 2023
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#243
PaulThomson said:
I edited it to John 5:28-29. So, you must have fired your response off within 5 minutes of my posting it.

PaulThomson said:
Wrong. All will be raised on the last day: some to aeonous honour and some to aeonous contempt. The believers are not the only ones who are raised by Christ on the last day. John 65:28-29; Dan. 12:2

All will be raised. Your negative inference fallacy is perverting your understanding of Jesus' words.
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That should be

Wrong. All will be raised on the last day: some to aeonous honour and some to aeonous contempt. The believers are not the only ones who are raised by Christ on the last day. John 5:28-29; Dan. 12:2
 
FollowerofShiloh

FollowerofShiloh

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#244
Jan 24, 2024
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#244
FollowerofShiloh said:
Anyone who believes they received the Gift of salvation must do as Peter instructs...
10 Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to confirm your calling and election
That's a choice to confirm that you are saved.
So it is IMPOSSIBLE to be a Robot like Roger and be saved because you must CONFIRM your Election.
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So if Roger is a Robot it means he has NEVER confirmed he is saved...which is a CHOICE.
 
FollowerofShiloh

FollowerofShiloh

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#245
Jan 24, 2024
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#245
rogerg said:
Believing is a choice? Don't you first have to believe to make that choice?
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You must confirm your Belief which is the choice.

10 Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to confirm your calling and election
 
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rogerg

Well-known member
#246
Jul 13, 2021
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#246
PaulThomson said:
The Bible doesn't mention logic. But that doesn't mean you can freely ignore reasoning through biblical texts logically.
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The reasoning of the Bible is simple: that Christ alone is the Saviour. You seem unable or unwilling to fathom that truth for some reason.

[2Co 11:3 KJV] 3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
 
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rogerg

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#247
Jul 13, 2021
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#247
FollowerofShiloh said:
You must confirm your Belief which is the choice.

10 Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to confirm your calling and election
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Confirming and causing are two very different things. You should not confuse the two as apparently, you have.
 
FollowerofShiloh

FollowerofShiloh

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#248
Jan 24, 2024
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#248
rogerg said:
Confirming and causing are two very different things. You should not confuse the two as apparently, you have.
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10 Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to confirm your calling and election

You claim to be Elected which means you claim you are saved.

You must confirm it.

That tells me if you accept the Gift of salvation or not.
 
FollowerofShiloh

FollowerofShiloh

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#249
Jan 24, 2024
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#249
Poor Roger, there's a choice always in the equation of salvation we must make.

Because we are not Robots.
 
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PaulThomson

Well-known member
#250
Oct 29, 2023
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#250
rogerg said:
Hmmm. I don't find "drawn" mentioned in any of those verses. You must have meant some other ones.

[Jhn 6:64-65 KJV]
64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
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John 6:44 No man can come to me except the Father which has sent Me draw him; and I will raise Him up on the last day."
So, since those who came top Jesus must be drawn by the Father, (John 6:44); and no one could come to Jesus except it were given to him to come by Jesus' Father, (John 6:65), to ALL those that came to Jesus it was given by the Father that they come; and they were ALL drawn by the Father to Him.
 
FollowerofShiloh

FollowerofShiloh

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#251
Jan 24, 2024
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#251
When people have a doctrine that "cherry picks" verses they completely miss the IMPORTANT verses about confirming your salvation and election.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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#252
Mar 1, 2022
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#252
Magenta said:
I was thinking about that yesterday, about how it gets complicated with all the pedantry and differing views and even things that are not Biblical being thrown into the mix, and people contradicting themselves, also... how it misses the simplicity that is in Christ. People saying things like, if you cannot read the Greek, you cannot understand the gospel. Man, that is just so wrong! Okay, back to the point: so you are saying that once we are made alive, the deal is sealed even though Scripture says we are sealed upon belief? I press into this point because it was sixteen years in between when some would say I was made alive and when I came to believe. This particular topic does interest me perhaps more than others, and I know it is not the same for everyone. Then again, some say spiritual things do not interest people who are not born again, and I disagree with that, also. I think lots of people are interested in spiritual things and pursue spiritual truths before coming to believe more fully in God and turning their will and their life over to Him. I was one of them...
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What is the scripture that you are referring to concerning sealing? I ask because often the scripture describes matters from our perspective and sometimes from God's perspective.
When the Spirit indwells a person, they have life. But like natural life, the moment of conception is generally unknown and it is not apparent immediately that life is present. Consequently, the work of the Spirit often is accredited to merely life circumstances and individual choices, unless God impacts the process more dramatically...as with Paul, for example. But whatever the case, life always grows and it becomes apparent that it is present. So the question: when are we sealed? From God's perspective, we are probably sealed in eternity past, but in practice, when the Spirit indwells an individual. When is the individual sealed from their perspective? When God the Spirit falls on them.
Sealing itself has nothing to do with actual salvation. It is the evidence outwardly of an inward reality. People confuse the indwelling of the Spirit that baptizes one into the body of Christ and the baptism of the Spirit that is an outward sign of confirmation that the indwelling has occurred.
What happened to you is your particular testimony and a wonderful story of grace. We talked about spiritual markers that attend the children of God before so I won't belabor that point.
 
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rogerg

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#254
Jul 13, 2021
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#254
FollowerofShiloh said:
10 Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to confirm your calling and election

You claim to be Elected which means you claim you are saved.

You must confirm it.

That tells me if you accept the Gift of salvation or not.
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That doesn't make sense. It is a gift. if a gift, then for those to whom it is given, it is already in their possession. Our acceptance,
nor anything we may do or not do, can cause it to occur or to be retained. It is eternal, once having it, it cannot be lost.
 
FollowerofShiloh

FollowerofShiloh

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Jan 24, 2024
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#255
rogerg said:
That doesn't make sense. It is a gift. if a gift, then for those to whom it is given, it is already in their possession. Our acceptance,
nor anything we may do or not do, can cause it to occur or to be retained. It is eternal, once having it, it cannot be lost.
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It's a Gift that requires confirmation.
Which you REFUSE to do!

When you received the Holy Spirit you had to yield to God. That is telling God I accept Your Gift.

Did you yield to God or did He invade you against your will?
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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#256
Mar 1, 2022
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#256
rogerg said:
Are you referring to the gospel of John? I may be missing something but I don't find a chapter 65 in John.

[Jhn 6:40 KJV] 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

[Jhn 6:44, 54 KJV]
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. ...
54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

[Jhn 6:45 KJV]
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
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He has the editors uncut edition.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#257
Jul 3, 2015
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#257
@Cameron143 I'm on my phone so cannot post directly from my device but this is the verse I was referring to about being sealed upon belief... I sourced it from a previous post I made to you in this thread :cool:


Ephesians 1:13-14
:)
 
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rogerg

Well-known member
#258
Jul 13, 2021
3,673
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#258
FollowerofShiloh said:
When people have a doctrine that "cherry picks" verses they completely miss the IMPORTANT verses about confirming your salvation and election.
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The ole "cherry pick verses" gambit, huh? Perhaps it is you who "cherry picks"? Allow me to let you in on something important - that
Christ alone is the Saviour and that man is not. That IS the gospel in total.

[Heb 10:7 KJV]
7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

[Jhn 6:38-39 KJV]
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
 
FollowerofShiloh

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
#259
Jan 24, 2024
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#259
rogerg said:
The ole "cherry pick verses" gambit, huh? Perhaps it is you who "cherry picks"? Allow me to let you in on something important - that
Christ alone is the Saviour and that man is not. That IS the gospel in total.

[Heb 10:7 KJV]
7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

[Jhn 6:38-39 KJV]
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
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Jesus shows a Choice He made.

For I came down to do the Will of him that sent me...that's a CHOICE!

Wow, you really do not understand the Bible at all.


You made a choice to accept the Gift of salvation and don't even know it.

You should be a comedian your jokes are splitting me up...:ROFL::ROFL::ROFL:
 
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rogerg

Well-known member
#260
Jul 13, 2021
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#260
FollowerofShiloh said:
It's a Gift that requires confirmation.
Which you REFUSE to do!

When you received the Holy Spirit you had to yield to God. That is telling God I accept Your Gift.

Did you yield to God or did He invade you against your will?
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Oh my!
 
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