Judgment Seat of Christ vs Great White Throne Judgment

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Everlasting-Grace

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Dec 18, 2021
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#1
@selahsays mentioned it would be interesting to open a thread about these two events that the bible talks about. so I thought i would open this thread to discuss these 2 events.

To start. it is interesting to note. that even though both are translated in English "judgment" they are two different Greek words.

in 2 cor 5: 10 it says we all must stand before the judgment seat. The greek word here is BEMA (some call it the BEMA seat) The word literally means a raised place. or a tribunal, We see examples of this in greek culture in the Olympics. where the people who participated were given a reward for work they completed in the games. This fits with what As it says we are judged for what we did, whether good or bad.

9 Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to Him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

I believe we get a picture of this in 1 cor 3. Where it says our works are tried by fire.

1 Cor 3: 9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. 10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. 11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

One thing I think we can gleem from both of these is who is at this judgement, In both passages, paul uses the term We, Int the second, we see the foundation on which we build is Christ. and in the end, we see that even if all the works were burned (wood hay straw) the person is still saved even as through fire.

This judgment is for believers. those who are in Christ. Also please note, a non believer will not be rewarded for good works.. They are told their works are as bloody rags, no matter what they do. they deserve death.. Which is what the second judgment is for.

This one is found in Rev 20

11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before [c]God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

The greek word here is Krino - This word is used in a court of law. when a judgment is passed on to a person who is charged, It is used to administer justice to evaluate or determine the guilt or innocence of someone who has been brought up on charges.

In this case, the works are judged to prove guilt. and also could be seen as used to determine if any works could be used to pay for the crime he committed. but we do see a few things here

1. Who is at this judgment

Death and Hades - this is a term used for non believers. As a child of God is said to be made alive, He is also said to be in paradise, not hades, and finally, It says they were delivered to Christ for judgment, A believer is raised by him, not delivered to him.

2. Everyone is guilty, We notice the end result of this judgment is the final verdict, the second death. Cast to the lake of fire.. In which everyone who appears at this judgment (death and Hades) is judged guilty and sentenced is carried out.

This is a basic discussion on the two and what separates them, look forward to seeing if anyone wants to get deeper into this subject.
 

GaryA

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#2
I believe they are the same event - only one Judgment Day - and, everyone will be there - saved - lost - everyone...

People are all-too-quick to ignore the significance of verses like Revelation 20:15.

It is incorrect to say that all present at the Revelation 20 judgment are cast into the lake of fire. The passage does not indicate that.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
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#3
I believe they are the same event -
Again, 2 different greek words, 2 different judgments. They can not be the same event. or they would be the same greek word

only one Judgment Day - and, everyone will be there - saved - lost - everyone...

People are all-too-quick to ignore the significance of verses like Revelation 20:15.

It is incorrect to say that all present at the Revelation 20 judgment are cast into the lake of fire. The passage does not indicate that.
it says it in the very passage.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them.

There were no people who were alive at this judgment, Only the dead. we were dead. but we were made alive

Eph 2 :
And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the [a]course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7

The dead were cast into the lake of fire.. Everyone there

Rev 20: 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second [d]death
 

selahsays

Well-known member
May 31, 2023
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#4
@selahsays mentioned it would be interesting to open a thread about these two events that the bible talks about. so I thought i would open this thread to discuss these 2 events.

To start. it is interesting to note. that even though both are translated in English "judgment" they are two different Greek words.

in 2 cor 5: 10 it says we all must stand before the judgment seat. The greek word here is BEMA (some call it the BEMA seat) The word literally means a raised place. or a tribunal, We see examples of this in greek culture in the Olympics. where the people who participated were given a reward for work they completed in the games. This fits with what As it says we are judged for what we did, whether good or bad.

9 Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to Him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

I believe we get a picture of this in 1 cor 3. Where it says our works are tried by fire.

1 Cor 3: 9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. 10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. 11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

One thing I think we can gleem from both of these is who is at this judgement, In both passages, paul uses the term We, Int the second, we see the foundation on which we build is Christ. and in the end, we see that even if all the works were burned (wood hay straw) the person is still saved even as through fire.

This judgment is for believers. those who are in Christ. Also please note, a non believer will not be rewarded for good works.. They are told their works are as bloody rags, no matter what they do. they deserve death.. Which is what the second judgment is for.

This one is found in Rev 20

11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before [c]God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

The greek word here is Krino - This word is used in a court of law. when a judgment is passed on to a person who is charged, It is used to administer justice to evaluate or determine the guilt or innocence of someone who has been brought up on charges.

In this case, the works are judged to prove guilt. and also could be seen as used to determine if any works could be used to pay for the crime he committed. but we do see a few things here

1. Who is at this judgment

Death and Hades - this is a term used for non believers. As a child of God is said to be made alive, He is also said to be in paradise, not hades, and finally, It says they were delivered to Christ for judgment, A believer is raised by him, not delivered to him.

2. Everyone is guilty, We notice the end result of this judgment is the final verdict, the second death. Cast to the lake of fire.. In which everyone who appears at this judgment (death and Hades) is judged guilty and sentenced is carried out.

This is a basic discussion on the two and what separates them, look forward to seeing if anyone wants to get deeper into this subject.
Yes. Two different judgments. Let’s go deeper. My understanding is that the Elect (chosen) have already been found “not guilty”—justified—saved. So, to me, this is saying that the Elect do not go through the Great White Throne Judgment. Now who are the Elect? I’m convinced it’s all who come to the Lord. Thoughts?

Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

- Romans 8:30 (KJV)

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

- Ephesians 1:3-6,10-14 (KJV)
 

selahsays

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May 31, 2023
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#5
I believe that the Judgment seat of Christ happens when we die and go to heaven. Christ will judge us at
this time. Consider the parable of Lazarus and the rich man.

The Great White Throne Judgment takes place after the Millennium and is the final judgment of God.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
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#6
Yes. Two different judgments. Let’s go deeper. My understanding is that the Elect (chosen) have already been found “not guilty”—justified—saved. So, to me, this is saying that the Elect do not go through the Great White Throne Judgment. Now who are the Elect? I’m convinced it’s all who come to the Lord. Thoughts?

Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

- Romans 8:30 (KJV)

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

- Ephesians 1:3-6,10-14 (KJV)
Yes, the elect are those who are born again, Who were given the right to become children of God (john 1 and John 3) and they will not be at the great white throne
 

Everlasting-Grace

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Dec 18, 2021
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#7
I believe that the Judgment seat of Christ happens when we die and go to heaven. Christ will judge us at
this time. Consider the parable of Lazarus and the rich man.

The Great White Throne Judgment takes place after the Millennium and is the final judgment of God.
Interesting,. Never thought of this, I always assumed it happened after the resurrection.. You may just be right!!
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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#8
Interesting,. Never thought of this, I always assumed it happened after the resurrection.. You may just be right!!
I don't think so.

Here's why:

we will be awarded "crowns / stephanous" at the BEMA, would you agree?


Paul said, "Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown [G4735 - stephanos] of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me in that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing." - 2Tim4:8




Paul isn't referencing the time of his/their/our [individual] DEATH, but the time of the "BEMA" (for awards / rewards)... when we (the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY) will ALL be present there (i.e. following "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]").







[I often refer to the example of the "24 elders" shown wearing the ALREADY-AWARDED "stephanous / crowns"... and note the comparable wording used in 5:4 "WAS FOUND" which phrase is ALSO used when Paul had been brought before their human / earthly-located "BEMA" in the latter parts of Acts]
 

Everlasting-Grace

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#9
I don't think so.

Here's why:

we will be awarded "crowns / stephanous" at the BEMA, would you agree?


Paul said, "Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown [G4735 - stephanos] of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me in that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing." - 2Tim4:8




Paul isn't referencing the time of his/their/our [individual] DEATH, but the time of the "BEMA" (for awards / rewards)... when we (the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY) will ALL be present there (i.e. following "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]").







[I often refer to the example of the "24 elders" shown wearing the ALREADY-AWARDED "stephanous / crowns"... and note the comparable wording used in 5:4 "WAS FOUND" which phrase is ALSO used when Paul had been brought before their human / earthly-located "BEMA" in the latter parts of Acts]
I am not sure.

Our works are tried, we will get gold silver precious stone, or wood hay and stubble at the BEMA. I am not sure when we get the crowns..

But you could be right..
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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#10
I am not sure.

Our works are tried, we will get gold silver precious stone, or wood hay and stubble at the BEMA. I am not sure when we get the crowns..

But you could be right..
Consider a couple of things:

1) "For what is our hope, or joy, or crown [G4735 - stephanos] of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming [/parousia]?" - 1Th2:19 (see also 1Th3:13, as to the "when" of this! "To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before [G1715 - in the presence of] God, even our Father, at the coming [/parousia] of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints." IOW, that's UP THERE! At the time of "our Rapture" event! 1Th4:17)



2) "Am I [Paul] not free? Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord? Are you not my work in the Lord?" - 1Cor9:1










The "BEMA" for awards / rewards pertains solely to "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" and will be awarded "IN THAT DAY" (not the day of our [individual] DEATH) and which will include (as I see it ^ ) "stephanos / crowns" (this is also why the "24 elders" are shown WEARING them) -

[quoting from BibleHub]

HELPS Word-studies

4735 stéphanos – properly, a wreath (garland), awarded to a victor in the ancient athletic games (like the Greek Olympics); the crown of victory (versus 1238 /diádēma, "a royal crown").

-- https://biblehub.com/greek/4735.htm



Our works are tried, we will get gold silver precious stone, or wood hay and stubble at the BEMA
As I see it, our WORKS are shown to have been MADE of either...
 

TheDivineWatermark

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#11
I believe that the Judgment seat of Christ happens when we die and go to heaven. Christ will judge us at this time. Consider the parable of Lazarus and the rich man.
Here's what I read in that passage:

--Luke 16:25 - "And Abraham said, 'Child, remember that you did fully receive your good things in your lifetime, and Lazarus likewise the evil things. But now he is comforted here, and you are suffering."


--notice that ALL of the "good" that the first person received (or ever will receive) happened in their lifetime;


--and that "NOW" Lazarus is "COMFORTED" (whereas the other is "suffering")... but the text says he's "COMFORTED" (in contrast to the "suffering" of the other person)... it says nothing about his being "REWARDED" (being "awarded / rewarded") at that time.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#12
I believe they are the same event - only one Judgment Day - and, everyone will be there - saved - lost - everyone...
This is just nonsensical. The final judgment day is only for the lost since the context makes it very clear, and so does the word used. But the judgment of the works of believers will be more than one thousand years before that, probably just before the Marriage of the Lamb.
 

Nehemiah6

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Jul 18, 2017
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#13
Now who are the Elect? I’m convinced it’s all who come to the Lord. Thoughts?
Why why use the term "the elect"? Why not all the children of God, why not all the saints? Election is already controversial.
 

Deuteronomy

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Jun 11, 2018
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#15
Our works are tried, we will get gold silver precious stone, or wood hay and stubble at the BEMA. I am not sure when we get the crowns..
Hello Everlasting-Grace, interesting thread topic (y) Thanks :)

That said, it's not that we will "get" (as a reward) gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay and/or stubble at the BEMA Seat of Christ, rather, I believe that those things represent the quality of our works that will be tested by fire there (see below).
1 Corinthians 3
10 By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one must be careful how he builds.
11 For no one can lay a foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 If anyone ~builds on this foundation using~ gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw,
13 his workmanship will be evident, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will prove the quality of each man’s work.
14 If what he has built survives, he will receive a reward.
15 If it is burned up, he will suffer loss. He himself will be saved, but only as if through the flames.
IOW, I believe that gold, silver and precious stones represent a believer's works that survive the fire and are deemed worthy, thereby, of being rewarded, while the wood, hay and straw represent a believer's works that do not survive the fire and are burned up (these are the believer's works that will be deemed unworthy of a receiving a reward).

I do not believe that we are told what the "rewards" that we will be given (or not) will be (are we?). At least that's how I've always understood this passage.

Finally, the good news, for all who stand before the Lord at this Judgment and suffer loss, is that what they lose is the reward(s) that they could/should have received, not their salvation.

God bless you!!

~Deuteronomy
 

Deuteronomy

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#16
It occurs to me that verses like the following two may be also worth considering in this discussion.
John 3
18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 5
24 Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
~Deuteronomy
 

Deuteronomy

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#18
This is the judgment of the lost not the saved. But the works of belivers will be judged for rewards (or not).
Yes, that is correct (y) The unbeliever will be judged and condemned at the Great White Throne. The believer, at the Bema Seat, will be judged (as you just said) for rewards (or not), but never condemned.
 

Evmur

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#19
I believe that the Judgment seat of Christ happens when we die and go to heaven. Christ will judge us at
this time. Consider the parable of Lazarus and the rich man.

The Great White Throne Judgment takes place after the Millennium and is the final judgment of God.
Say Selah hi. God bless you.

No doubt I will get stick.

I agree there is but one final judgement, the GWT of Revelation is the judgement shown in Matthew 25, I agree with most that [certainly with scripture] we are not being judged, having already been judged, found guilty and executed by faith with Jesus.

This last Judgement takes place 1, 000 years after we have been raptured. wedded to Christ and reigned in glory with Him for the 1, 000 years. Paul says when He comes to judge God will bring us with Him. THEREFORE ....

....Therefore we can by no means be of the nations whom Christ sets upon His right hand or His left, we are identified in Matt. 25 as "The King and all His sacredos all His holy ones" Jerome translates sacredos as holy angels, but sacredos is also the word used for saints.

We are further identified as "... these My brethren"

We are not therefore either the sheep or the goats.

Everybody ASSUMES all who are raised in Revelation to the GWT are already damned, I do protest, I hotly protest. It does not say so. It says those whose names are not written in the book of life are cast into the lake. There are TWO books, The Lamb's book and the book of life.

We do not have the right to judge before the time who will be saved and who condemned. The sheep got rewarded ... they are not the church, they are rewarded for ministering to the church ... mebbe they gave some needy saint who was dying of hunger or thirst a meal and a cup of water.

Jesus said to the sheep "Come ye blest of MY Father ... " not your Father, not even the Father, and He further says to them "inasmuch as ye did it unto one of the least of these MY brethren " not your brethren or even the brethren.

They are rewarded, I believe they are the meek who shall inherit the earth.