One hundred fifty three fish

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Omegatime

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#1
Apr 29, 2023
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#1
John 21:9 When they got out on land, they saw a charcoal fire there, with fish lying on it, and bread. 10 Jesus said to them, “Bring some of the fish that you have just caught.” 11 So Simon Peter went aboard and hauled the net ashore, full of large fish, a hundred and fifty-three of them; and although there were so many, the net was not torn. 12 Jesus said to them, “Come and have breakfast.” Now none of the disciples dared ask him, “Who are you?” They knew it was the Lord. 13 Jesus came and took the bread and gave it to them, and so with the fish. 14 This was now the third time that Jesus was revealed to the disciples after he was raised from the dead.

Why did they count the fish?
 
JohnDB

JohnDB

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#2
Jan 16, 2021
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#2
Omegatime said:
John 21:9 When they got out on land, they saw a charcoal fire there, with fish lying on it, and bread. 10 Jesus said to them, “Bring some of the fish that you have just caught.” 11 So Simon Peter went aboard and hauled the net ashore, full of large fish, a hundred and fifty-three of them; and although there were so many, the net was not torn. 12 Jesus said to them, “Come and have breakfast.” Now none of the disciples dared ask him, “Who are you?” They knew it was the Lord. 13 Jesus came and took the bread and gave it to them, and so with the fish. 14 This was now the third time that Jesus was revealed to the disciples after he was raised from the dead.

Why did they count the fish?
Click to expand...
Ok...
Context is EVERYTHING.

In the Hebrew language and culture letters are numbers and numbers are also letters.

Word/number games/riddles were common in the Jewish version of grammar school. (Betgashepher...beht gas hep her)

This number was absolutely known by every 9 year old Jewish boy and girl that darkened the door posts of any school.
It's the number for the sum of "bene elihim" or better known in English as "children of God".

Same Children of God as mentioned in John 1:12.

Notice how not a one of them was lost?

Just saying.
 
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Omegatime

Well-known member
#3
Apr 29, 2023
1,156
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#3
As far as the fish as I looked at it over the years might pertain to the generations over a period of 6000 years.

From Adam to Joseph----76 generations over 4000 years
Christ--------------------------1
Another 76 generations--76 generations over 2000 years averaging 26+ years per generation

------------------------Total 153 generations
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#4
Jul 18, 2017
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#4
Omegatime said:
Why did they count the fish?
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It is very possible that this number would comprise the ideal number of believers in a church. It is not too small and not too large.
 
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gb9

Senior Member
#5
Jan 18, 2011
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#5
or, it could just be they counted the fish, that happened, and John included it when he wrote his Gospel.....
 
JohnDB

JohnDB

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#6
Jan 16, 2021
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#6
Omegatime said:
As far as the fish as I looked at it over the years might pertain to the generations over a period of 6000 years.

From Adam to Joseph----76 generations over 4000 years
Christ--------------------------1
Another 76 generations--76 generations over 2000 years averaging 26+ years per generation

------------------------Total 153 generations
Click to expand...
And is completely outside of any of the themes found in John's Gospel account.

John's gospel is focused on fathers and especially sons. There are other themes...mostly dealing with common theological systems and ideologies that are in error.
So...maybe what you are saying is true....but it's still not what John had in mind when he wrote the number. It's way outside the themes he has clearly showcased.
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

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#7
Sep 2, 2020
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#7
gb9 said:
or, it could just be they counted the fish, that happened, and John included it when he wrote his Gospel.....
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They were fishermen it seems logical it would be common to count thier catch

i find it remarkably similar to Luke five when Jesus called them to become fishers of men and had done the same telling them after bo fish were caught to cast thier net and both times he told them to do it and they did them the blessing happened
 
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PaulThomson

Well-known member
#8
Oct 29, 2023
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#8
Omegatime said:
John 21:9 When they got out on land, they saw a charcoal fire there, with fish lying on it, and bread. 10 Jesus said to them, “Bring some of the fish that you have just caught.” 11 So Simon Peter went aboard and hauled the net ashore, full of large fish, a hundred and fifty-three of them; and although there were so many, the net was not torn. 12 Jesus said to them, “Come and have breakfast.” Now none of the disciples dared ask him, “Who are you?” They knew it was the Lord. 13 Jesus came and took the bread and gave it to them, and so with the fish. 14 This was now the third time that Jesus was revealed to the disciples after he was raised from the dead.

Why did they count the fish?
Click to expand...
Interestingly enough, last time I checked, Israel was the 153rd largest country in the world by area.
 
SomeDisciple

SomeDisciple

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#9
Jul 4, 2021
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#9
If you're about to eat breakfast, you're gonna estimate what the group is going to eat and count that out; and at some point you gotta figure out what you're going to do with the rest of the fish- whether you're going to give some out, or sell them off, or whatever. Having a number would probably help with that.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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#10
Mar 1, 2022
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#10
Doesn't Israel have a hundred fifty three lefthanded cellists who are allergic to fish on Thursdays?
 
JohnDB

JohnDB

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#11
Jan 16, 2021
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#11
Cameron143 said:
Doesn't Israel have a hundred fifty three lefthanded cellists who are allergic to fish on Thursdays?
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Or maybe because exactly (if you double the 153) it becomes 306 years later that Constantine would rule over Israel as part of the Roman Empire.....

Or maybe....there were exactly 153 reeds used to stabilize their boat that they were fishing in....or there were 153 squares in the net they were casting....on the other side of the boat....

We can have all sorts of fun with the ridiculous things people come up with....
 
JohnDB

JohnDB

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#12
Jan 16, 2021
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#12
153 coke bottles so that everyone can have a coke and a smile?
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

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#13
Nov 27, 2018
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#13
JohnDB said:
Ok...
Context is EVERYTHING.

In the Hebrew language and culture letters are numbers and numbers are also letters.

Word/number games/riddles were common in the Jewish version of grammar school. (Betgashepher...beht gas hep her)

This number was absolutely known by every 9 year old Jewish boy and girl that darkened the door posts of any school.
It's the number for the sum of "bene elihim" or better known in English as "children of God".

Same Children of God as mentioned in John 1:12.

Notice how not a one of them was lost?

Just saying.
Click to expand...
I've often wondered what the number was intended to reveal. Thank you so much for sharing this information.

As I read your post a thought immediately sprang to mind. The disciples' catch of 153 brought forth out of the water speaks to the reality of Children of God coming forth from the spiritual womb of water baptism. This is consistent with Jesus' statement, "Follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men." (Matt. 4:29, Mark 1:17) There is no denying fishers bring their catch from the water. Those who accept the great commission have already placed their trust in Jesus by obeying His word, and go on to share the truth with others. (Matt. 28:19, Mark 16:15-20, Luke 24:47-49, John 20:15-17)
 
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PaulThomson

Well-known member
#14
Oct 29, 2023
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#14
JohnDB said:
Ok...
Context is EVERYTHING.

In the Hebrew language and culture letters are numbers and numbers are also letters.

Word/number games/riddles were common in the Jewish version of grammar school. (Betgashepher...beht gas hep her)

This number was absolutely known by every 9 year old Jewish boy and girl that darkened the door posts of any school.
It's the number for the sum of "bene elihim" or better known in English as "children of God".

Same Children of God as mentioned in John 1:12.

Notice how not a one of them was lost?

Just saying.
Click to expand...
Could you please elaborate further. According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gematria 153 would be QNG. Maybe there are other letter combinations that produce 153. Which Hebrew word means children of God?
 
JohnDB

JohnDB

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#16
Jan 16, 2021
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#16
PaulThomson said:
Could you please elaborate further. According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gematria 153 would be QNG. Maybe there are other letter combinations that produce 153. Which Hebrew word means children of God?
Click to expand...
It's two words...
Bene Elohim
Transliteration being what it is. I'll refer you to Bullinger's "Number in Scriptures" as the reference.

It's somewhat technical....kinda too technical for a rather colloquial conversation as takes place in a forum like this.

But I will say this: Where Bullinger gets kinda "out there" with some of his numbers and enumeration he isn't completely out in left field with all of his assertions. This one he is spot on with.
 
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PaulThomson

Well-known member
#18
Oct 29, 2023
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#18
JohnDB said:
It's two words...
Bene Elohim
Transliteration being what it is. I'll refer you to Bullinger's "Number in Scriptures" as the reference.

It's somewhat technical....kinda too technical for a rather colloquial conversation as takes place in a forum like this.

But I will say this: Where Bullinger gets kinda "out there" with some of his numbers and enumeration he isn't completely out in left field with all of his assertions. This one he is spot on with.
Click to expand...
It seems to work. I like that.
 
FollowerofShiloh

FollowerofShiloh

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#19
Jan 24, 2024
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#19
The number 153 is the numerical total for the Hebrew phrase Ani Elohim, which means "I am God"

Jesus was telling them He is God.
 
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