The Law Is Out Of Date And Will "SOON DISAPPEAR"?

[Wilbur]

The Law has its place still. While there are sinners, the Law has a role to play (1 Timothy 1:8).
However, the Law has no more application to those who are born again.

Well said that the law still has a role to play. It plays a role in every believer's life and salvation whether they realize it or not.

As it is written, through the law comes the knowledge of sin. How would we know that stealing is a sin apart from the law? Once we have knowledge of sin, we realize that we have transgressed the law and are sinners and in need of a savior to avoid the wages of sin which is death. This leads us to faith in Christ where we are under the new covenant and law of grace and no longer under the law. This process affirms the verse that says the law is our tutor that leads us to faith in Christ.

To address the original post, the law is still in effect. It will be until heaven and earth pass away and the new heaven and earth appear. In other words, the law will pass away when it no longer is needed and we are perfected in eternity. I am also on my phone and cannot provide scripture references but I have read verses to support everything above. God bless you all.

 

[Magenta]

View attachment 263518
O come, let us worship and bow down: let us kneel before the LORD our maker. For he is our God; and we are the people of his pasture, and the sheep of his hand. To day if ye will hear his voice, Harden not your heart, as in the provocation, and as in the day of temptation in the wilderness: When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my work. Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways: Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.
- Psalm 95:6-11 View attachment 263519

Hebrews 4:7B plus 9

 

[Gideon300]

How about the 10 commandments? We’re still under them, right? …because certainly we can’t go out and rob a bank or go around killing folks.

I believe it’s the blood ordinances and rituals that came to an end when our Lord Jesus was nailed to the cross. In Him, they were fulfilled.
. . .
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

- Romans 8:1-4

Wow. Amazing. …It’s the Holy Spirit that guides us in our Father’s ways …

I do not understand why people can't grasp God's word that is so clearly stated. God's written law, as given to Moses, no longer applies to a born again Christian. That is so clearly stated that there should be no confusion. Tell me what laws apply to dead people? Who takes a corpse to court? I am crucified with Christ, through the law I died to the law, by the works of the law I can never be justified.

The law is a shadow. You may want to live in the shadows. I choose to live in the light. I live by the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. That sets me free from the law of sin and death. People can obey the Law to the letter and still be condemned - as were the Pharisees. If we could obey God's law, we would not need the new life that Christ came to give us.

Actually, we can obey God's law. The problem is that there is not one desire in the heart of man to obey God to the degree that He requires. So it's not that we cannot. We will not. Disobedience is the root of sin, going back to Eden.

 

[Gideon300]

Not the law of Moses, no, though there are some here who do believe that, and even that those 613 laws
are written on our hearts, which I believe is really pushing into territory none of us should tread as Christians.

John 8:36 plus Romans 8:2 If the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. For in Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set you free from the law of sin and death.

The absurdity of the legalistic position is obvious, except to the legalists. The temple no longer exists. So there is no way to obey the 613 commandments. Who burns their house down if there is a contagious illness in the family? That would have been interesting in the COVID pandemic period!

 

[selahsays]

I do not understand why people can't grasp God's word that is so clearly stated. God's written law, as given to Moses, no longer applies to a born again Christian. That is so clearly stated that there should be no confusion. Tell me what laws apply to dead people? Who takes a corpse to court? I am crucified with Christ, through the law I died to the law, by the works of the law I can never be justified.

The law is a shadow. You may want to live in the shadows. I choose to live in the light. I live by the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. That sets me free from the law of sin and death. People can obey the Law to the letter and still be condemned - as were the Pharisees. If we could obey God's law, we would not need the new life that Christ came to give us.

Actually, we can obey God's law. The problem is that there is not one desire in the heart of man to obey God to the degree that He requires. So it's not that we cannot. We will not. Disobedience is the root of sin, going back to Eden.

If ye love me, keep my commandments. - John 14:15 (KJV)

 

[selahsays]

Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

- Colossians 2:14 (KJV)
We must recognize the distinction between the law and the ordinances in the verse above. In Christ, all those rituals and blood sacrifices were nailed to the Cross.

 

[selahsays]

Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

- Ephesians 2:15 (KJV)

My understanding:
It was "the law of commandments contained in ordinances" that God abolished by means of the flesh of Jesus Christ, not the law itself. The 10 commandments are still very much in place. Consider what would happen if everyone defied the 10 commandments. Oh dear. God gave us the 10 commandments as a guide so that our lives might be lived peacefully and with reverence for Him.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

Hello friendly friends,

I am working my way through Day 356 of the timeline, chronological study plan and in this set of unbelievable Scripture, arises this matter of the Levitical Law and its expiration date.

Hebrews 8:13 KJV - 13 In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away.
Hebrews 8:13 NLT - 13 When God speaks of a "new" covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear.

There is plenty of Scripture to demonstrate that the Law has been removed as of the Resurrection of Christ.

I, at this time, believe that the Law has been extinct for a couple thousand years, but I need to make sure that I am, gulp, "right" about this belief.

Thank you to all who participate with the maturity that only comes from the same Love that the Father has for His Holy Son (should the Lord have placed it within you).

I've only read two pages so far so please excuse me if you already went over this.
My time is limited right now so I'll just hit the highlights the Lord opened up to me .

Most people I have talked to think that the law brings life. They believe that they keep the law good enough to be right/ righteous with God, so He will hopefully let them into Heaven on that day.
I used to think this as well.
My particular view was that if my good outweighed my bad, then I'd be ok. However, if I did one of the BIG sins, like a crime, then I might go to hell instead.

The OT and the New tell us that there is None righteous, no not one. For ALL have sinned and come short of the the glory of God.
Romans 3:10, 23

There is not a just man upon the earth that sineth not.

The wages of sin is death....
Romans 6:23

Death and Hell were cast into the Lake of fire.
This is the second death.
Revelation 20

That was bad enough. I had to realize that no matter how hard I tried, I was already condemned.

Then you posed the question about that passage in Hebrews. I love that book. I used to be Roman Catholic and even though it references the Jews, there were a lot of things that I could apply to my own misunderstanding. I don't mind changing my mind when I'm wrong and the Bible points it out. Since I was under the impression that keeping the law/ turning from all sins/ obeying the 10 commandments, etc could save me, I think that others likewise are under that misunderstanding.

We were looking to the law to provide life, eternal life. So, some of us were taught that if we turn from disobedience to the law to obedience to the law, we will be rewarded with everlasting life.

Satan does things like take that which is in the Bible and sounds reasonable and then misapplies the truth in a deception. He did that with Eve who was deceived and has done it with us too. He used this method to send countless souls to hell.
There is a purpose for the law, but it never gave life. That's where most priests/ pastors have been deceived and do unwittingly mislead others.

I read the chapters in Hebrews you pointed to and found that II Corinthians applied in chapter 3.
It states that the law doesn't provide life, but death.

7But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

11For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

We also see that it was replaced with an even more glorious, described in I Corinthians 15.



1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures.

But God commendeth His love toward us, in that ,while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

 

[Magenta]

Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances;
for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;- Ephesians 2:15 (KJV)

My understanding:
It was "the law of commandments contained in ordinances" that God abolished by means of the flesh of Jesus Christ, not the law itself. The 10 commandments are still very much in place. Consider what would happen if everyone defied the 10 commandments. Oh dear. God gave us the 10 commandments as a guide so that our lives might be lived peacefully and with reverence for Him.

Do you attempt to keep the Sabbath? Or how do you see Sabbath-keeping, since you seemed to agree with me
recently about how it is not included, but was symbolic of the rest from works for salvation we find in Christ.

 

[BeeBlessed]

The absurdity of the legalistic position is obvious, except to the legalists. The temple no longer exists. So there is no way to obey the 613 commandments. Who burns their house down if there is a contagious illness in the family? That would have been interesting in the COVID pandemic period!

Hi @Gideon300 …. The 613 “commandments” to which you refer were actually not all commandments; aside from the Ten Commandments, God’s people were expected to keep many ordinances—like observing certain feast days, ceremonial washings, health related rules, etc. Among the 613 were also blood sacrifices that could provide temporary forgiveness of sins. Certainly, the ordinances and blood sacrifices are no longer required. They were ALWAYS impossible for people to keep perfectly.

Even the Ten Commandments are impossible for people to keep perfectly; however, they do provide some order in a chaotic world, and most of the laws we live by today are based on them. I’m sure you would agree that speaking God’s name in vain, for example, would be unbecoming for a Christian. What about neglecting aging parents? Adultery? Cheating on taxes (stealing)? Disrespecting or neglecting the One who died for you (forgetting the Sabbath)? I don’t believe that remembering these Commandments that should be written in our hearts can do anything for us other than to invite God’s blessings into our lives. It’s not legalistic to remember how God wants us to live.

The only difference between us today and those who lived long ago under the system of Laws, ordinances and blood sacrifices is that Jesus became our Sabbath rest—offered His own blood to redeem us from sin and death—became our High Priest and mediator before our Father to give us relief from what was humanly impossible to accomplish. Now, we want to keep His commandments (10, not 613) not to win salvation, but because they are wise and help us to enjoy a blessed life. We keep the Sabbath holy by honoring in our hearts what Jesus did for us and by remembering that when we fall short, as we ALL do, we can pray in Jesus’ precious Name and ask our Father to forgive us—and because He sees us through the eyes of Christ, He does just that. Amazing GRACE! 😊

 

[selahsays]

Do you attempt to keep the Sabbath? Or how do you see Sabbath-keeping, since you seemed to agree with me
recently about how it is not included, but was symbolic of the rest from works for salvation we find in Christ.

Sabbath keeping is not a specific day of the week. It is keeping Jesus in my heart every single day—remembering what He did on that Cross for me. In 2 Corinthians 12:9, Jesus tell me:
And He said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness." Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

So keeping the Sabbath (Jesus) ensures that the power of Christ abides in me—day in and day out.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

The Sabbath is not about keeping it is about remembering.

Its God that makes you remember 😊

 

[Magenta]

Sabbath keeping is not a specific day of the week. It is keeping Jesus in my heart every single day—remembering what He did on that Cross for me. In 2 Corinthians 12:9, Jesus tell me:
And He said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness." Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

So keeping the Sabbath (Jesus) ensures that the power of Christ abides in me—day in and day out.

2 Corinthians 12:9-10

 

[Gideon300]

Hi @Gideon300 …. The 613 “commandments” to which you refer were actually not all commandments; aside from the Ten Commandments, God’s people were expected to keep many ordinances—like observing certain feast days, ceremonial washings, health related rules, etc. Among the 613 were also blood sacrifices that could provide temporary forgiveness of sins. Certainly, the ordinances and blood sacrifices are no longer required. They were ALWAYS impossible for people to keep perfectly.

Even the Ten Commandments are impossible for people to keep perfectly; however, they do provide some order in a chaotic world, and most of the laws we live by today are based on them. I’m sure you would agree that speaking God’s name in vain, for example, would be unbecoming for a Christian. What about neglecting aging parents? Adultery? Cheating on taxes (stealing)? Disrespecting or neglecting the One who died for you (forgetting the Sabbath)? I don’t believe that remembering these Commandments that should be written in our hearts can do anything for us other than to invite God’s blessings into our lives. It’s not legalistic to remember how God wants us to live.

The only difference between us today and those who lived long ago under the system of Laws, ordinances and blood sacrifices is that Jesus became our Sabbath rest—offered His own blood to redeem us from sin and death—became our High Priest and mediator before our Father to give us relief from what was humanly impossible to accomplish. Now, we want to keep His commandments (10, not 613) not to win salvation, but because they are wise and help us to enjoy a blessed life. We keep the Sabbath holy by honoring in our hearts what Jesus did for us and by remembering that when we fall short, as we ALL do, we can pray in Jesus’ precious Name and ask our Father to forgive us—and because He sees us through the eyes of Christ, He does just that. Amazing GRACE! 😊

I've been beyond busy this week, so if replied to this already, my apologies.

I go by what God's word has to say. And it says this:

"So the law became our guardian to lead us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith." (Galatians 3:24)

"Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it legitimately. We realize that law is not enacted for the righteous, but for the lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinful, for the unholy and profane, for killers of father or mother, for murderers, for the sexually immoral, for homosexuals, for slave traders and liars and perjurers, and for anyone else who is averse to sound teaching that agrees with the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted. (1 Timothy 1:8-11)

"Now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.…" (Galatians 3:25)

Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. So they show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts either accusing or defending them on the day when God will judge men’s secrets through Christ Jesus, as proclaimed by my gospel. (Romans 2:14-16)

Billions of people have no knowledge of God's law. God has given mankind the conscience and the law is not necessary to show people what is right and wrong. Maybe you know of a society that has no rules whatever. I do not.

 

[studier]

Hello friendly friends,

I am working my way through Day 356 of the timeline, chronological study plan and in this set of unbelievable Scripture, arises this matter of the Levitical Law and its expiration date.

Hebrews 8:13 KJV - 13 In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away.
Hebrews 8:13 NLT - 13 When God speaks of a "new" covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear.

There is plenty of Scripture to demonstrate that the Law has been removed as of the Resurrection of Christ.

I, at this time, believe that the Law has been extinct for a couple thousand years, but I need to make sure that I am, gulp, "right" about this belief.

Thank you to all who participate with the maturity that only comes from the same Love that the Father has for His Holy Son (should the Lord have placed it within you).

One of the things the KJV and the NLT are trying to bring out is just when the Old Covenant was actually made obsolete. Hebrews is saying that when God told Jeremiah (Jer31:31) that He would make a New Covenant, at that point, God made the Old Covenant old/obsolete.

When God spoke of a New Covenant to Jeremiah, He made the first one old/obsolete. Then when Hebrews was written after Jesus instituted the New Covenant in His blood, the Old Covenant was becoming old/obsolete (AD30-AD70) and it was near vanishing (AD70). Some as I do see AD70 as the new heavens and new earth - prophetic language for a change in eras and administration in Heaven and on earth (as some in this thread have already mentioned) - 18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. (Matt. 28:18 NKJ)

Something similar is stated in 2Cor3:7-13 about Moses coming down the mountain carrying the stone tablets. The entire Mosaic system was fading away when it was first implemented. It was never given to be lasting. The Plan of God was always Jesus Christ and the New and lasting Covenant.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

One of the things the KJV and the NLT are trying to bring out is just when the Old Covenant was actually made obsolete. Hebrews is saying that when God told Jeremiah (Jer31:31) that He would make a New Covenant, at that point, God made the Old Covenant old/obsolete.

When God spoke of a New Covenant to Jeremiah, He made the first one old/obsolete. Then when Hebrews was written after Jesus instituted the New Covenant in His blood, the Old Covenant was becoming old/obsolete (AD30-AD70) and it was near vanishing (AD70). Some as I do see AD70 as the new heavens and new earth - prophetic language for a change in eras and administration in Heaven and on earth (as some in this thread have already mentioned) - 18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. (Matt. 28:18 NKJ)

Something similar is stated in 2Cor3:7-13 about Moses coming down the mountain carrying the stone tablets. The entire Mosaic system was fading away when it was first implemented. It was never given to be lasting. The Plan of God was always Jesus Christ and the New and lasting Covenant.

Nice reference to the Law fading away.

Do you think that in the following answer by Jesus, that He would be referring to the Temple and not the Law? In a matter of days, Jesus would be hauled away and killed. Three days later, Jesus would rise from the grave and according to the below, "things" would change drastically.

Matthew 24:1-2 NLT - 1 As Jesus was leaving the Temple grounds, his disciples pointed out to him the various Temple buildings. 2 But he responded, "Do you see all these buildings? I tell you the truth, they will be completely demolished. Not one stone will be left on top of another!"

Since not all stones were cast to the ground, do you believe that Jesus was referring to the "destruction" of the Temple in AD 70, or the Law, which would come to an end as of the passage below?

Galatians 3:23-25 NLT - "Before the way of faith in Christ was available to us, we were placed under guard by the law. We were kept in protective custody, so to speak, until the way of faith was revealed. Let me put it another way. The law was our guardian until Christ came; it protected us until we could be made right with God through faith. And now that the way of faith has come, we no longer need the law as our guardian."

Hebrews 9:10 NLT - 10 For that old system deals only with food and drink and various cleansing ceremonies--physical regulations that were in effect only until a better system could be established."

Jesus is that better System and it was implemented well before AD 70.

What are your thoughts?

 

[KohenMatt]

It's important to consider which perspective of the law disappearing we're talking about. If by the law you mean the law of sin and death which results in eternal separation because of disobedience, that has expired. But if by the law we mean instructions on how to live, that doesn't disappear. Jesus said, "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished." -Matthew 5:18

I do my best to follow God's laws physically and/or spiritually when applicable. His laws are instructions on what a godly and redeemed life looks like. But knowing that when I fall short of His expectations, His mercy and grace overcomes eternal punishment.

 

[studier]

Nice reference to the Law fading away.

Do you think that in the following answer by Jesus, that He would be referring to the Temple and not the Law? In a matter of days, Jesus would be hauled away and killed. Three days later, Jesus would rise from the grave and according to the below, "things" would change drastically.

Matthew 24:1-2 NLT - 1 As Jesus was leaving the Temple grounds, his disciples pointed out to him the various Temple buildings. 2 But he responded, "Do you see all these buildings? I tell you the truth, they will be completely demolished. Not one stone will be left on top of another!"

Since not all stones were cast to the ground, do you believe that Jesus was referring to the "destruction" of the Temple in AD 70, or the Law, which would come to an end as of the passage below?

Galatians 3:23-25 NLT - "Before the way of faith in Christ was available to us, we were placed under guard by the law. We were kept in protective custody, so to speak, until the way of faith was revealed. Let me put it another way. The law was our guardian until Christ came; it protected us until we could be made right with God through faith. And now that the way of faith has come, we no longer need the law as our guardian."

Hebrews 9:10 NLT - 10 For that old system deals only with food and drink and various cleansing ceremonies--physical regulations that were in effect only until a better system could be established."

Jesus is that better System and it was implemented well before AD 70.

What are your thoughts?

My thoughts:

Jesus was speaking of the pending destruction of the Temple in AD70. This was the vanishing of the Old Covenant and its Law that Hebrews said had been made obsolete (Jer31:31), was becoming obsolete, and was near vanishing. AD70 was the end of the old era and final implementation of the new era in Christ Jesus. AD30-AD70 was a transitional period.

The new and better system is the New Covenant and Great High Priesthood of Jesus Christ, the Prophet greater than Moses, the King of kings = YHWH's Christ per Psalm 2 that Paul referenced when he evangelized per Acts 13.

The entirety of Scripture is beneficial for instruction in righteousness to the Christian 2Tim3:16 who is not under the Law but under Grace Rom6:14.

The Christian - the person in Christ in Spirit - is submitted in faith to God's command to believe in the name of His Son and is to love fellow Christians as Christ commands (1John3:23) - as Christ loved us and gave Himself for us (John13:34; 15:12-13).

Christians are to fulfill the Law of Christ (Gal6:2), which is the law of God (1Cor9:21). They do this by assisting others who are caught up in sin (Gal6:1) and by bearing another's [sin] burden, they imitate in some way what our Lord did for us.

The more I study the Law of Christ, I have begun to see it as more than the approximate 1,000 commands in the New Covenant Scriptures, and it rather encompassing all of Scripture that all ultimately points to Jesus Christ and living by His Spirit in His absolute rule of Heaven and earth pursuant to the New Covenant under God's grace. All Scripture makes one wise for salvation through faith which is in Jesus Christ (2Tim3:15) who is responsible for the salvation of all who obey Him (Heb5:9).

There is obviously many ways to say this and many blanks to be filled in. On the fly, this is my take.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

It's important to consider which perspective of the law disappearing we're talking about. If by the law you mean the law of sin and death which results in eternal separation because of disobedience, that has expired.

I really appreciate the way you presented the above. Thumbs up.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

My thoughts:

Jesus was speaking of the pending destruction of the Temple in AD70. This was the vanishing of the Old Covenant and its Law that Hebrews said had been made obsolete (Jer31:31), was becoming obsolete, and was near vanishing. AD70 was the end of the old era and final implementation of the new era in Christ Jesus. AD30-AD70 was a transitional period.

The new and better system is the New Covenant and Great High Priesthood of Jesus Christ, the Prophet greater than Moses, the King of kings = YHWH's Christ per Psalm 2 that Paul referenced when he evangelized per Acts 13.

The entirety of Scripture is beneficial for instruction in righteousness to the Christian 2Tim3:16 who is not under the Law but under Grace Rom6:14.

The Christian - the person in Christ in Spirit - is submitted in faith to God's command to believe in the name of His Son and is to love fellow Christians as Christ commands (1John3:23) - as Christ loved us and gave Himself for us (John13:34; 15:12-13).

Christians are to fulfill the Law of Christ (Gal6:2), which is the law of God (1Cor9:21). They do this by assisting others who are caught up in sin (Gal6:1) and by bearing another's [sin] burden, they imitate in some way what our Lord did for us.

The more I study the Law of Christ, I have begun to see it as more than the approximate 1,000 commands in the New Covenant Scriptures, and it rather encompassing all of Scripture that all ultimately points to Jesus Christ and living by His Spirit in His absolute rule of Heaven and earth pursuant to the New Covenant under God's grace. All Scripture makes one wise for salvation through faith which is in Jesus Christ (2Tim3:15) who is responsible for the salvation of all who obey Him (Heb5:9).

There is obviously many ways to say this and many blanks to be filled in. On the fly, this is my take.

Well . . . I like your take. And, as I prepare to set out and begin visiting churches in my area, I hope to find someone knowledgeable, such as yourself, who would like to work together. We've got to be in the world. Practice time here in the Forum is about done. Soon we need to branch out and find those who know they need a healer.