Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

[PaulThomson]

And I'm still waiting for an answer to my question: Did the disciples of Christ seek him, find him and choose him or was it the other way around?

Scripture says that large crowds were seeking the Messiah and believed they my have found Him, John 1:35-51. Of those many seekers, Jesus chose twelve to be with Him as apprentices., Luke 6:12-16

 

[Rufus]

No, it means the TR is trying to make it mean something which is not how John wrote it at all.

Well, if he wrote the way you say, then everyone on the planet is saved and that makes you a Universalist. You surely do know how to stack up the heresies, don't you?

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Really? And remarkable revelation by you. So...is there a point somewhere deeply hidden in you comment?

Many claim sin is defined by the Law but I see it by the Moral Law.
Within the 10 Commandments every sin known can be found.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Well, if he wrote the way you say, then everyone on the planet is saved and that makes you a Universalist. You surely do know how to stack up the heresies, don't you?

Not even close. I know many people I witness to who tells me they want no part of God. Most think they can get to Heaven by doing everything else but how the Bible explains it. And what's strange, many think they are already good people. So most actually believe they can get to Heaven on works. Where merely accepting God when He comes to you is not a work at all. It's saying yes to His offer. He's doing everything.

 

[Rufus]

Scripture says that large crowds were seeking the Messiah and believed they my have found Him, John 1:35-51. Of those many seekers, Jesus chose twelve to be with Him as apprentices., Luke 6:12-16

Where does scripture say "large crowds were seeking him and believed they may have found him"?

 

[Rufus]

Many claim sin is defined by the Law but I see it by the Moral Law.
Within the 10 Commandments every sin known can be found.

You're as ignorant of the Law as you are of the Gospel.

First all, scripture never speaks of this "moral law" so called. Nor is the concept even found in scripture. Nor would it be, since whatever God commands the sons of men, we are morally/spiritually duty-bound to obedience!

Secondly, how can the Ten Words be so comprehensive when 9 of the 10 commandment are only negative injunctions? Where does that leave a very large number of positive commandments that are not covered in the 10?

 

[PaulThomson]

What I bolded in red is not true.

Acts 13:48
48 When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.
NIV

There are at least three takeaways from this passage:

1. Not all the Gentiles who "heard" believed; only those who were appointed to life, making this a qualified statement.

The Greek says those who had been appointed to aeonous life believed. It does not say they believed in Christ unto aeonous life. The context shows that some had been appointed to aeonous life when they believed in Christ the week before, after which Paul had told them to continue in the grace of God, Acts 13:L42-43.. And some may have been appointed to aeonous life through believing Paul's gospel on this sabbath Acts 13:44-45. The context implies to me that what those who had been already appointed to aeonous life believed was Paul's pronouncement that God was sending Him to the gentiles, Acts 13:L46-48.

2. Since only those appointed for eternal life actually believed, then the logical inference is that those who didn't or don't believe were not or ever appointed to live (cp. 1Pet 2:8)

Acts 13:48And when the gentiles heard THIS ( i.e. "Lo. we turn to the Gentiles. For so ha=th the Lord commanded us, saying, 'I have set thee to be a light of the Gentile. that thou shouldst be for salvation unto the ends of the earth" " ) they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord, and as many as had been ordained to aeonous life believed that proclamation by Paul.

3. The eternal divine decree (appointment) precedes faith. The text does not say that those who believed were appointed for life (cp. Jn 11:26).

In this account, the report of God's decree re Paul at His conversion (namely Paul's commission to be a light to the Gentiles, Acts 9:15) followed after the appointment to aeonous life of the Gentiles here through faith in Christ at the preaching of Paul on the sabbath before and on this sabbath. The text says that those who believed Paul's proclamation re being sent to the Gentiles had alredy been appointed to aeonous life, which happens by putting faith in Christ.

 

[brightfame52]

And had it not been that God wanted the Gentiles to be a part of the Family, He would not have blinded and deafened the Jews who would have heard Jesus and accepted him.

You cant believe can you ?

The curse is on them because Christ didnt die for them. See everyone Christ died for, has by His death, been redeemed from the curse of the Law having been made a curse for them Gal 3:13

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

So nobody Christ died for[jew or gentile] is ever under the curse, its impossible !

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

You're as ignorant of the Law as you are of the Gospel.

First all, scripture never speaks of this "moral law" so called. Nor is the concept even found in scripture. Nor would it be, since whatever God commands the sons of men, we are morally/spiritually duty-bound to obedience!

Secondly, how can the Ten Words be so comprehensive when 9 of the 10 commandment are only negative injunctions? Where does that leave a very large number of positive commandments that are not covered in the 10?

The 10 Commandments have always been known as the Moral Law.

Here, even the REFORMED agree with me..

THE MORAL LAW AND THE TEN COMMANDMENTS
Western Reformed Seminary
These Ten Commandments codify the moral law of God (WCF 19:2, WLC 98, WSC 41)


You really have no idea about much of anything.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

You cant believe can you ?

The curse is on them because Christ didnt die for them. See everyone Christ died for, has by His death, been redeemed from the curse of the Law having been made a curse for them Gal 3:13

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

So nobody Christ died for[jew or gentile] is ever under the curse, its impossible !

And had it not been that God wanted the Gentiles to be a part of the Family, He would not have blinded and deafened the Jews who would have heard Jesus and accepted him.

 

[PaulThomson]

Where does scripture say "large crowds were seeking him and believed they may have found him"?

John 4:29, 42; 7:26, 31, 41.

 

[John6150]

Wow, you two really go at it here.
However there is a third option that is neither Election nor Free Will.
Jhn 1:12-13, see it there ?

 

[brightfame52]

And had it not been that God wanted the Gentiles to be a part of the Family, He would not have blinded and deafened the Jews who would have heard Jesus and accepted him.

You cant believe can you ?

The curse is on them because Christ didnt die for them. See everyone Christ died for, has by His death, been redeemed from the curse of the Law having been made a curse for them Gal 3:13

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

So nobody Christ died for[jew or gentile] is ever under the curse, its impossible !

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

You cant believe can you ?

The curse is on them because Christ didnt die for them. See everyone Christ died for, has by His death, been redeemed from the curse of the Law having been made a curse for them Gal 3:13

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

So nobody Christ died for[jew or gentile] is ever under the curse, its impossible !

And had it not been that God wanted the Gentiles to be a part of the Family, He would not have blinded and deafened the Jews who would have heard Jesus and accepted him.

 

[brightfame52]

And had it not been that God wanted the Gentiles to be a part of the Family, He would not have blinded and deafened the Jews who would have heard Jesus and accepted him.

You cant believe can you ?

The curse is on them because Christ didnt die for them. See everyone Christ died for, has by His death, been redeemed from the curse of the Law having been made a curse for them Gal 3:13

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

So nobody Christ died for[jew or gentile] is ever under the curse, its impossible !

 

[Foghorn]

Christ died only for the elect, He loved only the elect friend and btw 1 Pet 3:18 applies only to the elect See Chapter 1 vs 1-2

Amen!

 

[John146]

What I bolded in red is not true.

Acts 13:48
48 When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.
NIV

There are at least three takeaways from this passage:

1. Not all the Gentiles who "heard" believed; only those who were appointed to life, making this a qualified statement.

2. Since only those appointed for eternal life actually believed, then the logical inference is that those who didn't or don't believe were not or ever appointed to live (cp. 1Pet 2:8)

3. The eternal divine decree (appointment) precedes faith. The text does not say that those who believed were appointed for life (cp. Jn 11:26).

The Heb 9:27 passage, therefore, speaks specifically only to physical death in its context and does not preclude the possibility that God could or has in fact predestined many to eternal condemnation by leaving them in their fallen state as "pottery...for common use...prepared for destruction" (Rom 9:21-24).

The appointment in Acts 13 is to gospel privileges. Gentiles as a whole were to hear the gospel upon the rejection of the nation of Israel.

 

[PaulThomson]

The appointment in Acts 13 is to gospel privileges. Gentiles as a whole were to hear the gospel upon the rejection of the nation of Israel.

I don't understand what you are asserting here. Are you agreeing or s=disagreeing. If disagreeing, do you have some contextual evidence for disagreeing?

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

You cant believe can you ?

The curse is on them because Christ didnt die for them. See everyone Christ died for, has by His death, been redeemed from the curse of the Law having been made a curse for them Gal 3:13

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

So nobody Christ died for[jew or gentile] is ever under the curse, its impossible !

And had it not been that God wanted the Gentiles to be a part of the Family, He would not have blinded and deafened the Jews who would have heard Jesus and accepted him.

 

[homwardbound]

And had it not been that God wanted the Gentiles to be a part of the Family, He would not have blinded and deafened the Jews who would have heard Jesus and accepted him.

Did or was it God that blinded the Jews? Really, god takes away fee choice to choose, self, or God

"Unbelief" to God is choosing self over God. Is that not what the first Adam did? Chose to believe he wouldn't die, if he ate from that tree? He did not know the truth, so ate and found out the truth, the flesh he was in was then as dead to God, yet was not dead to self in this world, yet to God is dead (Romans 8:3). God came to save the Soul through for us all through Son after his willing death for all flesh to reverse the curse of the first Adam, that first ate in "Unbelief" then Jesus died physically in belief to God Father, his Father, now our Father those that believe God. Then was/ is raised from the dead as proof to the disciples he is God from God as a part of God forever for us to get saved in God's Spirit for us, those that are willing to be dead, see this truth