The Law Is Out Of Date And Will "SOON DISAPPEAR"?

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JohnDB

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I think its only confusion when we deviate from God's Word and start adding our own words into God's Word instead of allowing Him to direct our path though His Word Pro 3:5-6

Obeying God the way He asks is not legalistic, its love according to God. :love:

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments.
Exodus 20: 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.
John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

1 John 2:4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
Quoting John?

Um that is a direct reference to the laws of the New Covenant which focuses in on having Faith in Jesus and HIS LIFESTYLE....NOT the Law Of Moses.

Context is king.
 

vassal

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Have I been speaking about the law of Moses or the Ten Commandments? Did you read the scriptures posted, there still seems to be some confusion about the difference.
I have written post on it but many did not read it, here it is again;

Arguments arise about the relevance of the 10 Commandments and the Law of Moses. I would like to explain here the differences between the two based on scripture (KJV).

The Ten Commandments
First, the 10 Commandments that were given by GOD, were written by the finger of GOD himself on tables of stone;

Deu 10:1 At that time the LORD said unto me, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first, and come up unto me into the mount, and make thee an ark of wood.
Deu 10:2 And I will write on the tables the words that were in the first tables which thou brakest, and thou shalt put them in the ark.
Deu 10:3 And I made an ark of shittim wood, and hewed two tables of stone like unto the first, and went up into the mount, having the two tables in mine hand.
Deu 10:4 And he wrote on the tables, according to the first writing, the ten commandments, which the LORD spake unto you in the mount out of the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly: and the LORD gave them unto me.
Deu 10:5 And I turned myself and came down from the mount, and put the tables in the ark which I had made; and there they be, as the LORD commanded me.

Note that the tablets were placed INSIDE the Ark of the Covenant under the Mercy seat. The 10 commandments are on a permanent medium, STONE, they are a permanent record. the 10 Commandments are referred to in the biblical texts as My Commandments or His Commandments. The 10 Commandments are the Moral law left to humanity, Jews and Gentiles alike.

The Law of Moses
Moses wrote a separate set of Laws that contained ordinances precepts, and statutes. They contained many things that were important for the Israelites of that time such as food laws, purity laws, social laws, sacrifice and offerings, instructions for the tabernacle, the priesthood, the sacrifices the feasts and more. Moses also copied to text what was on the tables of stone, the commandments but it does not mean the 10 commandments given by GOD are from Moses, The 10 Commandments have a HOLY status and are forever and are Distinct and separate from the Law of Moses. The law of Moses written on parchment or other similar medium was TEMPORARY by nature and was put OUTSIDE the ark of the covenant as it is written;

Deu 31:24 And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished,
Deu 31:25 That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying,
Deu 31:26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.
Deu 31:27 For I know thy rebellion, and thy stiff neck: behold, while I am yet alive with you this day, ye have been rebellious against the LORD; and how much more after my death?

The Mercy Seat
The mercy seat covering the Ark of the Covenant puts the emphasis on the Holiness of the Ark of the Covenant and it's contents, the Ten Commandments written on tables of stone;

Exo 25:17 And thou shalt make a mercy seat of pure gold: two cubits and a half shall be the length thereof, and a cubit and a half the breadth thereof.
Exo 25:18 And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat.
Exo 25:19 And make one cherub on the one end, and the other cherub on the other end: even of the mercy seat shall ye make the cherubims on the two ends thereof.
Exo 25:20 And the cherubims shall stretch forth their wings on high, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and their faces shall look one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubims be.
Exo 25:21 And thou shalt put the mercy seat above upon the ark; and in the ark thou shalt put the testimony that I shall give thee.
Exo 25:22 And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubims which are upon the ark of the testimony, of all things which I will give thee in commandment unto the children of Israel.




The mercy seat was the cover of the ark of the covenant where the Lord would meet with Moses over the 2 cherubim. The ark is HOLY and the contents, the 10 commandments are HOLY being written by GOD himself on a permanent medium ( stone )
Once per year on the day of Atonement, the High priest had to sprinkle blood on the mercy seat covering the ark containing the 10 commandments from a sacrifice for forgiveness of sin. Sin being defined as breaking the 10 commandments, the moral law written on the tablets of stone INSIDE THE ARK.

Yeshua, the messiah, the son of GOD, was the ultimate sacrifice, He paid the price for our sins with his blood unto death. Since the Final sacrifice for sin was fulfilled By Christ, The Law of Moses was therefore no longer applicable, it was a temporary Law contrary to the 10 Commandments that will not pass away. The two set of laws were, kept separately, given differently and written differently.

Jesus said we must keep the Ten Commandments to be saved, (Mat. 19:16-19). We are not saved by our obedience to God's law, but by grace thru faith. We must repent of our sins having transgressed the commandments. Repentance changes us from disobedience to willing obedience. Those who are willing to obey the Ten Commandments shall enter thru the gates into the HOLY City;

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

His Commandments are sure and are Love and stand for ever and ever.

Deu 5:29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!

Peace
 

JohnDB

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I'm thinking that @SabbathBlessing doesn't understand how this whole debate thingy works....
He is supposed to post arguments supporting his side and not the opposition. But quoting John is not an argument for his position....I just don't think he understands debate very well....let's cut the poor guy some slack until he figures out debate....

Maybe one day he will be able to discuss theology....but it's not today for sure.
 

JohnDB

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I have written post on it but many did not read it, here it is again;

Arguments arise about the relevance of the 10 Commandments and the Law of Moses. I would like to explain here the differences between the two based on scripture (KJV).

The Ten Commandments
First, the 10 Commandments that were given by GOD, were written by the finger of GOD himself on tables of stone;

Deu 10:1 At that time the LORD said unto me, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first, and come up unto me into the mount, and make thee an ark of wood.
Deu 10:2 And I will write on the tables the words that were in the first tables which thou brakest, and thou shalt put them in the ark.
Deu 10:3 And I made an ark of shittim wood, and hewed two tables of stone like unto the first, and went up into the mount, having the two tables in mine hand.
Deu 10:4 And he wrote on the tables, according to the first writing, the ten commandments, which the LORD spake unto you in the mount out of the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly: and the LORD gave them unto me.
Deu 10:5 And I turned myself and came down from the mount, and put the tables in the ark which I had made; and there they be, as the LORD commanded me.

Note that the tablets were placed INSIDE the Ark of the Covenant under the Mercy seat. The 10 commandments are on a permanent medium, STONE, they are a permanent record. the 10 Commandments are referred to in the biblical texts as My Commandments or His Commandments. The 10 Commandments are the Moral law left to humanity, Jews and Gentiles alike.

The Law of Moses
Moses wrote a separate set of Laws that contained ordinances precepts, and statutes. They contained many things that were important for the Israelites of that time such as food laws, purity laws, social laws, sacrifice and offerings, instructions for the tabernacle, the priesthood, the sacrifices the feasts and more. Moses also copied to text what was on the tables of stone, the commandments but it does not mean the 10 commandments given by GOD are from Moses, The 10 Commandments have a HOLY status and are forever and are Distinct and separate from the Law of Moses. The law of Moses written on parchment or other similar medium was TEMPORARY by nature and was put OUTSIDE the ark of the covenant as it is written;

Deu 31:24 And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished,
Deu 31:25 That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying,
Deu 31:26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.
Deu 31:27 For I know thy rebellion, and thy stiff neck: behold, while I am yet alive with you this day, ye have been rebellious against the LORD; and how much more after my death?

The Mercy Seat
The mercy seat covering the Ark of the Covenant puts the emphasis on the Holiness of the Ark of the Covenant and it's contents, the Ten Commandments written on tables of stone;

Exo 25:17 And thou shalt make a mercy seat of pure gold: two cubits and a half shall be the length thereof, and a cubit and a half the breadth thereof.
Exo 25:18 And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat.
Exo 25:19 And make one cherub on the one end, and the other cherub on the other end: even of the mercy seat shall ye make the cherubims on the two ends thereof.
Exo 25:20 And the cherubims shall stretch forth their wings on high, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and their faces shall look one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubims be.
Exo 25:21 And thou shalt put the mercy seat above upon the ark; and in the ark thou shalt put the testimony that I shall give thee.
Exo 25:22 And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubims which are upon the ark of the testimony, of all things which I will give thee in commandment unto the children of Israel.




The mercy seat was the cover of the ark of the covenant where the Lord would meet with Moses over the 2 cherubim. The ark is HOLY and the contents, the 10 commandments are HOLY being written by GOD himself on a permanent medium ( stone )
Once per year on the day of Atonement, the High priest had to sprinkle blood on the mercy seat covering the ark containing the 10 commandments from a sacrifice for forgiveness of sin. Sin being defined as breaking the 10 commandments, the moral law written on the tablets of stone INSIDE THE ARK.

Yeshua, the messiah, the son of GOD, was the ultimate sacrifice, He paid the price for our sins with his blood unto death. Since the Final sacrifice for sin was fulfilled By Christ, The Law of Moses was therefore no longer applicable, it was a temporary Law contrary to the 10 Commandments that will not pass away. The two set of laws were, kept separately, given differently and written differently.

Jesus said we must keep the Ten Commandments to be saved, (Mat. 19:16-19). We are not saved by our obedience to God's law, but by grace thru faith. We must repent of our sins having transgressed the commandments. Repentance changes us from disobedience to willing obedience. Those who are willing to obey the Ten Commandments shall enter thru the gates into the HOLY City;

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

His Commandments are sure and are Love and stand for ever and ever.

Deu 5:29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!

Peace
Because this is a book and not a post for a colloquial discussion.

Less is more!
 

vassal

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There's so many scriptures that support this, the strong delusion

Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.

And regardless how many times you quote Jesus telling us not to break the least of these commandments, not to keep the commandments of man over the commandments of God quoting from the Ten, people just don't believe.

It's a sad place to be.
Pro 28:9 One who turns away his ear from hearing the law, Even his prayer is an abomination.


What's even more dangerous is the teaching that the law of Christ is not the commandments of God and they do not include the Ten Commandments-that God who is Jesus personally wrote and personal spoke or that we can edit one of them as if man is above God, despite God saying He will not alter His words Psa 89:34 and Jesus saying not a jot or tittle can pass from His law Mat 5:18

I believe our time on earth is coming to a close and why God is calling all of the people He loves so very much to come out of their false teachings Rev 18:4 we must worship Him in Truth and Spirit John 4:21-22 and all of His commandments are Truth Psa 119:151 and there is no truth in us when we do not keep the commandments 1 John 2:4 and we worship in vain when keeping our rules over the commandments of God Mat 15:3-14 compared to true worship Rev 14:12

Keeping the Ten Commandments through the power of Jesus John 14:15-18 is what frees us from sin and why its called the law of liberty.

James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.

I am starting to believe that only those who truly believe in Jesus and OBEY him have the commandments in their hearts and are under the new covenant. So be it!

For many are called, but few are chosen.
 

SabbathBlessing

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Quoting John?

Um that is a direct reference to the laws of the New Covenant which focuses in on having Faith in Jesus and HIS LIFESTYLE....NOT the Law Of Moses.

Context is king.
Is it your claim that John taught something different than Jesus? People keep forgetting that the apostles were servants of Christ Rom 1:1 and servants aren't greater than their master John 13:16

God said He wrote His laws in the New Covenant Heb 8:10

Why breaking any of the Ten Commandments is still a sin, even in the New Covenant

1 John 3:4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.
James 2:10-12. For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

It's why Jesus in His own Words taught not to break the least of these commandments Mat 5:19-30 and in doing when we keep our rules over the commandments of God quoting again directly from the Ten Commandments our hearts are far from Him, which is the opposite of the New Covenant- God's law in our hearts and minds

Whoever is teaching you these things according to Jesus if we believe Him is leading you down the wrong path. Mat 5:19-30 Mat 15:3-14 Mat 19:17-19

The Ten Commandments did not end, but kept by God's faithful until the end of time Rev 14:12 Rev 22:14. No wonder why Jesus predicts so many will say Lord Lord on that Great Day Mat 7:21-23

If we hear His voice TODAY, we should not harden our hearts Heb 3:7-8. Jesus can't lie, everything He taught it because He loves us and wants us to believe His teachings and follow His example because He is the WAY, the only way back to the narrow path to eternal life.
 

Cameron143

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I am starting to believe that only those who truly believe in Jesus and OBEY him have the commandments in their hearts and are under the new covenant. So be it!

For many are called, but few are chosen.
Us 4, no more, shut the door?
 

SabbathBlessing

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I am starting to believe that only those who truly believe in Jesus and OBEY him have the commandments in their hearts and are under the new covenant. So be it!

For many are called, but few are chosen.
I agree, it took me a long time to realize that that most people are arguing against Jesus. His teachings, His example. They want the blessing, but not live how Jesus asks us to. I don't understand how we can profess faith in Jesus but not His teachings or the example He left for us. And following the path that failed for everyone else in the scriptures as if it will suddenly produce a different result when Jesus says it won't Mat 7:21-23 Heb 4:11
 

vassal

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I agree, it took me a long time to realize that that most people are arguing against Jesus. His teachings, His example. They want the blessing, but not live how Jesus asks us to. I don't understand how we can profess faith in Jesus but not His teachings or the example He left for us. And following the path that failed for everyone else in the scriptures as if it will suddenly produce a different result when Jesus says it won't Mat 7:21-23 Heb 4:11
it makes me sad to see them this way. Many do not understand the simple concept of obedience, the commandments are not grievous but they changes us and free us, they are the path to eternal life. Jesus said it so clearly.
 

JohnDB

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Is it your claim that John taught something different than Jesus? People keep forgetting that the apostles were servants of Christ Rom 1:1 and servants aren't greater than their master John 13:16
No...
Your quote of John is a partial quote of Jesus giving us the commandments of the New Covenant.

Say I stopped quoting the Old Covenant Ten Commandments at the summary statement and then claimed whatever was the Law based loosely on scripture out of context? You would say that we were nuts.

And yet you are surprised at "our" reaction when you do the same with the New Covenant commandments?

You really need to rethink your position here.

Do you even know the New Covenant commandments? All of them? Do you know how many there are? Can you quote them off the top of your head?
 

SabbathBlessing

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I am starting to believe that only those who truly believe in Jesus and OBEY him have the commandments in their hearts and are under the new covenant. So be it!

For many are called, but few are chosen.
I agree.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins [b]and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

We are only grafted in through faith Gal 3:26-28. We need the faith in Jesus and the faith of Jesus.
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

What faith did Jesus have? How did He live? Did He reject the commandments of God or did He keep them John 15:10 and teach them Mat 5:17-30 Mat 15:3-15 Mark 7:7-13 Mat 19:17-19 and always led by example - our example 1 John 2:6

How do we have faith in Jesus but not faith to believe and follow His teachings or His example.
 

SabbathBlessing

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No...
Your quote of John is a partial quote of Jesus giving us the commandments of the New Covenant.

Say I stopped quoting the Old Covenant Ten Commandments at the summary statement and then claimed whatever was the Law based loosely on scripture out of context? You would say that we were nuts.

And yet you are surprised at "our" reaction when you do the same with the New Covenant commandments?

You really need to rethink your position here.

Do you even know the New Covenant commandments? All of them? Do you know how many there are? Can you quote them off the top of your head?
So you think John taught a different set of laws than Jesus and the John servant is greater than His master despite John saying that is just not so.

So love to God according to your view of John is different than what Jesus and God says love to Him is. Or do they all harmonize? Scripture does not delete scripture and John does not have authority over Christ, nor did he teach anything different than He.
 

JohnDB

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So you think John taught a different set of laws than Jesus and the John servant is greater than His master despite John saying that is just not so.

So love to God according to your view of John is different than what Jesus and God says love to Him is. Or do they all harmonize? Scripture does not delete scripture and John does not have authority over Christ, nor did he teach anything different than He.
No...
John quoted Jesus giving us the New Laws.
Apparently you don't read them or know them.

Why are you ignoring the very words of Jesus/God?
 

SabbathBlessing

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it makes me sad to see them this way. Many do not understand the simple concept of obedience, the commandments are not grievous but they changes us and free us, they are the path to eternal life. Jesus said it so clearly.
Can you imagine how sad it makes Jesus- He lived for us- the perfect example for man 1 John 2:6 and died for our sins when we confess and forsake them 1 John 1:9 Pro 28:13 and turn to Christ who enables to keep His commandments John 14:15-18 but when we are hostile to God's law, we are in reality hostile to God Rom 8:7-8 and no more sacrifice remains Heb 10:26-30
 

SabbathBlessing

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No...
John quoted Jesus giving us the New Laws.
Apparently you don't read them or know them.

Why are you ignoring the very words of Jesus/God?
Why are you? Did Jesus teach we don't have to keep the commandments of God in what He quotes from the Ten Commandments? He calls that worshipping in vain and our heart is far from Him and continuing in the path we end up in a ditch.


Matthew 5:3 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; (only found in the Ten Commandments- same thing John quoted breaking one we break them all James 2:10-12) and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 5 But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God”— 6 then he need not honor his father [a]or mother.’ Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. 7 Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:

8 ‘These people [c]draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
9 And in vain they worship Me,

Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”
10 When He had called the multitude to Himself, He said to them, “Hear and understand: 11 Not what goes into the mouth defiles a man; but what comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man.”

12 Then His disciples came and said to Him, “Do You know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this saying?”

13 But He answered and said, “Every plant which My heavenly Father has not planted will be uprooted. 14 Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch.”

Why Jesus taught not to break or teach others to break the least of these as it affects our status in heaven and one would be in fear of sin and Judgement- same thing James said James 2:10-12 Mat 5:19-30
 

vassal

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I agree.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins [b]and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

We are only grafted in through faith Gal 3:26-28. We need the faith in Jesus and the faith of Jesus.
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

What faith did Jesus have? How did He live? Did He reject the commandments of God or did He keep them John 15:10 and teach them Mat 5:17-30 Mat 15:3-15 Mark 7:7-13 Mat 19:17-19 and always led by example - our example 1 John 2:6

How do we have faith in Jesus but not faith to believe and follow His teachings or His example.
Jesus faith in the Father was perfect! He gave his life and suffered inhuman torture and proved it! Jesus followed the will of our Father in heaven as should we, His will is that we obey his commandments;
Deu 5:29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!

This is written all over the bible; follow the commandments, Do the will of GOD, Choose Life!
 

SabbathBlessing

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John 13:34, 14:1
Can you show me where new commandments delete others? It also wasn't really new, but a new way of saying, its been a theme throughout the whole bible. Love to God, love to neighbor.

John goes in great detail that shows belief in God is connected to obedience to Him. Would you like me to show this to you? It's why is correlates with the teachings of Jesus Mat 7:21-23 because John was a servant of Christ and never taught something different than what Jesus taught. None of the apostles did, they all loved and served Him and Jesus said He had all authority Mat 28:18-20

All scripture has to reconcile with Christ, not the other way around.
 

JohnDB

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Can you show me where new commandments delete others? It also wasn't really new, but a new way of saying, its been a theme throughout the whole bible. Love to God, love to neighbor.

John goes in great detail that shows belief in God is connected to obedience to Him. Would you like me to show this to you?
Okay..

Apparently you can't read the red words or understand what they mean.

Basically Jesus is saying "Here's the New Covenant, Here's what it means, and now I've got to go institute it with my blood "

Notice how Jesus says NOTHING about the Law of Moses.