Salvation is a Free Gift.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
3,479
455
83
[Act 2:40-42 KJV]
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added [unto them] about three thousand souls.
42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.[

THey saved themselves by gldly believing the word and being baptised as a seal of their salvation by faith.
"They saved themselves". Guess your POV is pretty much summed up with those three words. Actually, no surprise there.
Well, so much for Christ as the Saviour (at least in your mind).
Okay, based upon your statement, no need to discuss this further.[/QUOTE]

Its sad how readily you reject any scriptures that don't fit a catechism written by men. And you are strawmanning here. I believe ALL the Bible, which says that Jesus is the Saviour and also says we need to save ourselves from the untoward generation we live among by believing in the Saviour.
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
4,321
714
113
Christ died for ALL of God's Offspring, not just some of them.

he said that in the post you replied to . He died for all but only believers will be saved
But his post began with Limited Atonement which is just the opposite of that thinking. I reread his post and he is skirting the edges of Reform due to his personal beliefs while trying to end with scripture. Old habits evidently. I'll read more new posts on the topic to see if he becomes clearer (y)
 

PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
3,479
455
83
[Act 2:40-42 KJV]
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added [unto them] about three thousand souls.
42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.[

THey saved themselves by gldly believing the word and being baptised as a seal of their salvation by faith.
“Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls….. praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:41, 47‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38-39‬ ‭

“For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:27-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬[/QUOTE]
Often I wish people would add a bit more commentary to the biblical texts they cite, to make it clear what they personally believe the texts mean, because clearly the same texts mean different things to different people. It's hard to tell sometimes whether the poster is agreeing with me or disagreeinhg.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,341
6,649
113
62
Of course he did

“My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: and he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world. And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭2:1-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

he died for the sins of the world not only believers that means they can be saved but they are the ones saying “ I know him but yet what does it says about thier actions ? It’s where the rubber meets the road

And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.”
I was referring to a particular passage in Romans 4.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
3,694
575
113
"They saved themselves". Guess your POV is pretty much summed up with those three words. Actually, no surprise there.
Well, so much for Christ as the Saviour (at least in your mind).
Okay, based upon your statement, no need to discuss this further.
Its sad how readily you reject any scriptures that don't fit a catechism written by men. And you are strawmanning here. I believe ALL the Bible, which says that Jesus is the Saviour and also says we need to save ourselves from the untoward generation we live among by believing in the Saviour.[/QUOTE]

[Act 13:48 KJV] 48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
 

PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
3,479
455
83
I’m saying when he said “ he does believe in Limited atonement “ he’s meaning that just Jesus dying for everyone’s sins isn’t going to save everyone that they have to believe the gospel.
Jesus atonement by His death is not enough to save anyone. We are saved by His life working in us, and we do not receive His life unless we put our trust in Jesus Christ.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,179
5,727
113
But his post began with Limited Atonement which is just the opposite of that thinking. I reread his post and he is skirting the edges of Reform due to his personal beliefs while trying to end with scripture. Old habits evidently. I'll read more new posts on the topic to see if he becomes clearer (y)
He’s saying the limit is not believing that’s all I’m saying maybe you missed that in his post
 

PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
3,479
455
83
Its sad how readily you reject any scriptures that don't fit a catechism written by men. And you are strawmanning here. I believe ALL the Bible, which says that Jesus is the Saviour and also says we need to save ourselves from the untoward generation we live among by believing in the Saviour.
[Act 13:48 KJV] 48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.[/QUOTE]
Yes, I believe that verse too. We are ordained to eternal life by believing the gospel. Those men had believed the gospel. They also heard Paul's report of God's commission for him to focus on taking that gospel to the gentiles, and as many as had been appointed to aeonous life through believing the gospel, believed the report of Paul's commission and ejoiced to hear of it.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,341
6,649
113
62
"THe introduction of the elect" is not a biblical expression. What do you mean by it?
Really? I'm not coining a new phrase. Surely you know what an introduction is and the term elect engenders.
There was no need to preserve a chosen people for Christ until after sin. Had Adam been successful, all humanity would have inherited life through him. Instead, all died in Adam. Hence, the need for a second Adam.
God chose Adam as a representative for all mankind...in him. God also chose those in Christ...in Him. All the choosing was before the foundation of the world.
 

PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
3,479
455
83
Really? I'm not coining a new phrase. Surely you know what an introduction is and the term elect engenders.
There was no need to preserve a chosen people for Christ until after sin. Had Adam been successful, all humanity would have inherited life through him. Instead, all died in Adam. Hence, the need for a second Adam.
God chose Adam as a representative for all mankind...in him. God also chose those in Christ...in Him. All the choosing was before the foundation of the world.
That response in no clearer.

APB. Can anyone understand Cameron's theory here, and explain it in simple terms?
 

ThewindBlows

Active member
Sep 30, 2019
231
91
28
Jesus atonement by His death is not enough to save anyone. We are saved by His life working in us, and we do not receive His life unless we put our trust in Jesus Christ.
Without shedding of blood is no remission. Jesus took our sin and died for it and rose without it, You are saved when you are forgiven of your sin, So in that atonement that Jesus provided is where God takes your sin and gives you his righteousness. the gift of righteousness and the gift of eternal life, that gift is Jesus, Been born again makes you a new creation in Christ so then you have Christ in you and working through you, but not before...thats why Jesus said you must be born again
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
3,694
575
113
[Act 13:48 KJV] 48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
Yes, I believe that verse too. We are ordained to eternal life by believing the gospel. Those men had believed the gospel. They also heard Paul's report of God's commission for him to focus on taking that gospel to the gentiles, and as many as had been appointed to aeonous life through believing the gospel, believed the report of Paul's commission and ejoiced to hear of it.[/QUOTE]

No, you have it exactly backwards and you're intentionally taking liberties with the verse and its meaning that are incorrect. According to the verse, true belief comes from having been ordained to eternal life, not the reverse. For it to mean what you said it means, it would have had to be written as " those who believed were ordained to eternal life". But that's not the way it was written: the ordaining to eternal life occurred first, and from/because of that, they believed.
Again, save yourself time and effort replying because I'm done discussing this.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,179
5,727
113
Jesus atonement by His death is not enough to save anyone. We are saved by His life working in us, and we do not receive His life unless we put our trust in Jesus Christ.
brother there’s a lot of good and agreement with what your saying .

do you know john 3;16? Look at what Jesus is really saying here just before about Moses

“And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:13-17‬ ‭

You know what he’s saying I’m going to assume but here is what here referring to the people had been on constant rebellion against the lord always complaining .

God gave them bread from heaven , they complained so he gave them meat from heaven , they complained he ( see exodus 23:20-21) finally got tired of it and so

“And the people spake against God, and against ( mediator ) Moses,

Wherefore have ye brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? for there is no bread, neither is there any water; and our soul loatheth this light bread. And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died.

Therefore the people came to Moses, and said, We have sinned, for we have spoken against the LORD, and against thee; pray unto the LORD, that he take away the serpents from us. ( they repented )


And Moses prayed for the people. ( not Jesus the perfect man’s intercession it Moses for the people )

And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.

And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.”
‭‭Numbers‬ ‭21:5-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

just as God said every man who looks to Jesus death for thier sins is going to live even if they haven’t gotten everything all lined out yet is the point those people lives through it but it wasn’t because they were suddenly wo thiit sin but t he had repented and knew they did wrong

it’s not just his life but his death and then his resurrection . It’s not just his death like you’re saying I totally agree so did Paul the apostle in his letters.

remember brother

“For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. ( he’s Gods babe already just ain’t grown up and matured )

But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭5:13-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And that servant, which knew his Lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes.

For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭12:47-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 

PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
3,479
455
83
Without shedding of blood is no remission. Jesus took our sin and died for it and rose without it, You are saved when you are forgiven of your sin, So in that atonement that Jesus provided is where God takes your sin and gives you his righteousness. the gift of righteousness and the gift of eternal life, that gift is Jesus, Been born again makes you a new creation in Christ so then you have Christ in you and working through you, but not before...thats why Jesus said you must be born again
That is not what the Bible says.

Rom. 5::9-10 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his nlood, much more shall we be saved by Him from the wrath of God. For is while we were enemies we were reconciled to god by the death of His Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by His life.

You can't be born again without receiving His life through putting faith in Him. Hid death reconciles us; it takes away the sense of enmity between God and us. But it does not save us from the power of sin in our life.
 

ThewindBlows

Active member
Sep 30, 2019
231
91
28
That is not what the Bible says.

Rom. 5::9-10 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his nlood, much more shall we be saved by Him from the wrath of God. For is while we were enemies we were reconciled to god by the death of His Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by His life.

You can't be born again without receiving His life through putting faith in Him. Hid death reconciles us; it takes away the sense of enmity between God and us. But it does not save us from the power of sin in our life.
I would say your comment "But it does not save us from the power of sin in our life." is anti Christ and denies what Jesus came for but you didn't state what part so I'll make it simple for you, You can't be born again until your sin has been dealt with, and you can't pay for it yourself
 

PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
3,479
455
83
Yes, I believe that verse too. We are ordained to eternal life by believing the gospel. Those men had believed the gospel. They also heard Paul's report of God's commission for him to focus on taking that gospel to the gentiles, and as many as had been appointed to aeonous life through believing the gospel, believed the report of Paul's commission and ejoiced to hear of it.
No, you have it exactly backwards and you're intentionally taking liberties with the verse and its meaning that are incorrect. According to the verse, true belief comes from having been ordained to eternal life, not the reverse. For it to mean what you said it means, it would have had to be written as " those who believed were ordained to eternal life". But that's not the way it was written: the ordaining to eternal life occurred first, and from/because of that, they believed.
Again, save yourself time and effort replying because I'm done discussing this.[/QUOTE]

The verse SAYS, when they heard THIS, they believed. This was Paul's report of God's commissioning him to go to the gentiles. The text tells us what they believed. You are claiming the text says they believed the gospel after they had been appointed to aeonous life, because that is what your system requires. The text SAYS otherwise.
 

PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
3,479
455
83
Yes, I believe that verse too. We are ordained to eternal life by believing the gospel. Those men had believed the gospel. They also heard Paul's report of God's commission for him to focus on taking that gospel to the gentiles, and as many as had been appointed to aeonous life through believing the gospel, believed the report of Paul's commission and ejoiced to hear of it.
No, you have it exactly backwards and you're intentionally taking liberties with the verse and its meaning that are incorrect. According to the verse, true belief comes from having been ordained to eternal life, not the reverse. For it to mean what you said it means, it would have had to be written as " those who believed were ordained to eternal life". But that's not the way it was written: the ordaining to eternal life occurred first, and from/because of that, they believed.
Again, save yourself time and effort replying because I'm done discussing this.[/QUOTE]

The verse SAYS, when they heard THIS, they believed. This was Paul's report of God's commissioning him to go to the gentiles. The text tells us what they believed. You are claiming the text says they believed the gospel after they had been appointed to aeonous life, because that is what your system requires. The text SAYS otherwise.

We are appointed to aeonous life by believing the gospel.
 

ThewindBlows

Active member
Sep 30, 2019
231
91
28
But it does not save us from the power of sin in our life.
It absolutely does and it is the only way, scripture makes it very clear


1 John 1:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.


Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
 

PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
3,479
455
83
I would say your comment "But it does not save us from the power of sin in our life." is anti Christ and denies what Jesus came for
Romans 7:24 - 8:17 contradicts you.

but you didn't state what part so I'll make it simple for you, You can't be born again until your sin has been dealt with, and you can't pay for it yourself
I agree.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,179
5,727
113
“Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls….. praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:41, 47‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38-39‬ ‭

“For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:27-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬
Often I wish people would add a bit more commentary to the biblical texts they cite, to make it clear what they personally believe the texts mean, because clearly the same texts mean different things to different people. It's hard to tell sometimes whether the poster is agreeing with me or disagreeinhg.[/QUOTE]
just posting scriptures to support your point