Is this the "man" who mad the earth to tremblre!

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Dec 17, 2022
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#1
Many teach that Lucifer was satan, a fallen angel; however, there isn’t any scripture that directly ties lucifer to the word satan. Lucifer comes from the Hebrew root word, “halal” which means, “to boast or make one’s boast.” However, in Hebrew, the word “satan” is not a proper noun, like someone’s name. Many times, the word is interpreted as an adversary.

Belief in satan as a spiritual being evolved during the height of the Persian Achaemenid Empire in 550 BCE and was adopted by the Jews living under Persian rule. The narrative function of the story of Adam and Eve was to demonstrate that evil began through the fault of humans, not God.

Many believe Lucifer or satan was this high-ranking fallen angel. When people quote Isaiah fourteen, they never include verse sixteen, which says, “Is this “the man” that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms.” (Isaiah 14:16)
Why don’t they mention that he is the man? It takes away from the narrative about the devil being cast out of heaven! In Revelation it’s written, "And the rest of the men who were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk, neither, repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts." (Revelation 9:20,21)

I’ve never understood how someone could claim this is talking about satan when the scripture clearly says – “Is this the man” - who caused the earth to tremble!
I don’t understand the fascination with devils and demons in the religious world. There was a time when, through ignorance, I believed and preached the same things. After much study, God enlightened me, concluding that fallen angels don’t exist except in the mind of man. I’ve had people get very angry with me, accusing me of trying to take away their devil. The religious world talks about the devil more than God.
Whether I believe in a devil, satan, or whatever you want to call it, hasn’t any bearing on me being a son. My salvation is anchored in my belief in the one true God and faith in his finished work through the faith of righteous Abraham.
Nowadays, I don’t even mention it to anyone; when someone is set in their ways, it’s no use trying to change their mind. The devil doctrine is so ingrained in people’s religious ideology that to deliver them takes the work of the Holy Spirit. Why do we believe in the persona of a devil, like we do the living God? It doesn’t make sense.
Think about the scripture which explains faith, "Without faith, it is impossible to please him: for he that comes to God must believe that he is and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." (Hebrews 11:6)
If satan is a spirit being then must we have faith that he exits, otherwise how can he? I don’t believe faith works that way.
Paul said, "Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." (Hebrews 11:1)
If we think about it, that would mean, the only “substance” that gives evidence that satan exists would be our “faith” giving life to a devil’s existence. If I don’t believe that he exists, then there is no substance for his existence.
Why is it so hard for us to understand that man is the one who is in total opposition to God and his every move? Man is the one who corrupts the ways of God.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
7,159
2,174
113
#2
Many teach that Lucifer was satan, a fallen angel; however, there isn’t any scripture that directly ties lucifer to the word satan. Lucifer comes from the Hebrew root word, “halal” which means, “to boast or make one’s boast.” However, in Hebrew, the word “satan” is not a proper noun, like someone’s name. Many times, the word is interpreted as an adversary.

Belief in satan as a spiritual being evolved during the height of the Persian Achaemenid Empire in 550 BCE and was adopted by the Jews living under Persian rule. The narrative function of the story of Adam and Eve was to demonstrate that evil began through the fault of humans, not God.

Many believe Lucifer or satan was this high-ranking fallen angel. When people quote Isaiah fourteen, they never include verse sixteen, which says, “Is this “the man” that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms.” (Isaiah 14:16)
Why don’t they mention that he is the man? It takes away from the narrative about the devil being cast out of heaven! In Revelation it’s written, "And the rest of the men who were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk, neither, repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts." (Revelation 9:20,21)

I’ve never understood how someone could claim this is talking about satan when the scripture clearly says – “Is this the man” - who caused the earth to tremble!
I don’t understand the fascination with devils and demons in the religious world. There was a time when, through ignorance, I believed and preached the same things. After much study, God enlightened me, concluding that fallen angels don’t exist except in the mind of man. I’ve had people get very angry with me, accusing me of trying to take away their devil. The religious world talks about the devil more than God.
Whether I believe in a devil, satan, or whatever you want to call it, hasn’t any bearing on me being a son. My salvation is anchored in my belief in the one true God and faith in his finished work through the faith of righteous Abraham.
Nowadays, I don’t even mention it to anyone; when someone is set in their ways, it’s no use trying to change their mind. The devil doctrine is so ingrained in people’s religious ideology that to deliver them takes the work of the Holy Spirit. Why do we believe in the persona of a devil, like we do the living God? It doesn’t make sense.
Think about the scripture which explains faith, "Without faith, it is impossible to please him: for he that comes to God must believe that he is and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." (Hebrews 11:6)
If satan is a spirit being then must we have faith that he exits, otherwise how can he? I don’t believe faith works that way.
Paul said, "Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." (Hebrews 11:1)
If we think about it, that would mean, the only “substance” that gives evidence that satan exists would be our “faith” giving life to a devil’s existence. If I don’t believe that he exists, then there is no substance for his existence.
Why is it so hard for us to understand that man is the one who is in total opposition to God and his every move? Man is the one who corrupts the ways of God.
This stems from man's propensity toward an aversion to personal responsibility, iyam.
 
N

Niki7

Guest
#3
I don’t understand the fascination with devils and demons in the religious world. There was a time when, through ignorance, I believed and preached the same things. After much study, God enlightened me, concluding that fallen angels don’t exist except in the mind of man. I’ve had people get very angry with me, accusing me of trying to take away their devil. The religious world talks about the devil more than God.
from your bio:

Have been studying the word for 40 years, have found many questionable doctrines.
so then Jesus was casting out what? nothing and it was all entertainment?

and who exactly tempted Eve in the garden? a poodle?
 
Dec 17, 2022
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7
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#5
You proved my point, don't anyone mess with my devil because it upsets my apple cart. Did you know the devil is not mentioned once in the Old Testament.
 
N

Niki7

Guest
#6
You proved my point, don't anyone mess with my devil because it upsets my apple cart. Did you know the devil is not mentioned once in the Old Testament.
oh you have a devil? :oops:

I don't know what point you think you are making. Shall we just cut out everything in the Bible that does not agree with your premise?
 
Dec 27, 2018
1,642
164
63
#7
Many teach that Lucifer was satan, a fallen angel; however, there isn’t any scripture that directly ties lucifer to the word satan. Lucifer comes from the Hebrew root word, “halal” which means, “to boast or make one’s boast.” However, in Hebrew, the word “satan” is not a proper noun, like someone’s name. Many times, the word is interpreted as an adversary.

Belief in satan as a spiritual being evolved during the height of the Persian Achaemenid Empire in 550 BCE and was adopted by the Jews living under Persian rule. The narrative function of the story of Adam and Eve was to demonstrate that evil began through the fault of humans, not God.

Many believe Lucifer or satan was this high-ranking fallen angel. When people quote Isaiah fourteen, they never include verse sixteen, which says, “Is this “the man” that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms.” (Isaiah 14:16)
Why don’t they mention that he is the man? It takes away from the narrative about the devil being cast out of heaven! In Revelation it’s written, "And the rest of the men who were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk, neither, repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts." (Revelation 9:20,21)

I’ve never understood how someone could claim this is talking about satan when the scripture clearly says – “Is this the man” - who caused the earth to tremble!
I don’t understand the fascination with devils and demons in the religious world. There was a time when, through ignorance, I believed and preached the same things. After much study, God enlightened me, concluding that fallen angels don’t exist except in the mind of man. I’ve had people get very angry with me, accusing me of trying to take away their devil. The religious world talks about the devil more than God.
Whether I believe in a devil, satan, or whatever you want to call it, hasn’t any bearing on me being a son. My salvation is anchored in my belief in the one true God and faith in his finished work through the faith of righteous Abraham.
Nowadays, I don’t even mention it to anyone; when someone is set in their ways, it’s no use trying to change their mind. The devil doctrine is so ingrained in people’s religious ideology that to deliver them takes the work of the Holy Spirit. Why do we believe in the persona of a devil, like we do the living God? It doesn’t make sense.
Think about the scripture which explains faith, "Without faith, it is impossible to please him: for he that comes to God must believe that he is and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." (Hebrews 11:6)
If satan is a spirit being then must we have faith that he exits, otherwise how can he? I don’t believe faith works that way.
Paul said, "Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." (Hebrews 11:1)
If we think about it, that would mean, the only “substance” that gives evidence that satan exists would be our “faith” giving life to a devil’s existence. If I don’t believe that he exists, then there is no substance for his existence.
Why is it so hard for us to understand that man is the one who is in total opposition to God and his every move? Man is the one who corrupts the ways of God.
Isaiah is not talking about Satan.
He was writing about the king of Babylon.

I believe he is known by the name Benjamin Netanyahu.
 

Blade

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2019
1,779
624
113
#8
Hi "I’ve never understood how someone could claim this is talking about satan when the scripture clearly says – “Is this the man” - who caused the earth to tremble!"

Daniel 10 "Then he continued, “Do not be afraid, Daniel. Since the first day that you set your mind to gain understanding and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard, and I have come in response to them. 13 But the prince of the Persian kingdom resisted me twenty-one days. Then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, because I was detained there with the king of Persia. "

Hmm how did the Prince of Persian kingdom hold Gabriel off for 21 days and then Gab called on Michael? :)

Satan, devil, Lucifer, adversary, morning star. Not sure why were stuck on just this one for there is allot more we say day in day out that are not in the word of God.

There is a very good reason we do not get to see into the spiritual world unless God allows it from time to time. Its sad but many (Just a guess) believe only by what they can see and feel. Only seen 3 times into the spiritual realm unless I forgot some. We left LA Calf to help my mom in Colorado. At her place I got up to go to the bathroom on night and I was just getting into the living room and I see this black yet see through spirit come into the house from my right walks right in front of me looks at me then out to the left of the house. HAHA

Well I always laugh at this part. We all talk a good game huh but when push comes to shove we see what we really are. I mean I am a man of Faith and works and have fruit. HAHA but man at that moment I was scared. The next week if I went to the bathroom I left the hall light on.. YEAH HELLO.. they run from hall lights! HAHA. Here's the odd thing. I knew what it was thinking when it passed Infront of me it said "you are nothing".

Told me mom she said "oh that's just death he's been hanging around". Yeah no shock to her at all. See my dad had died a few years before this she go remarried he was great man of God and had cancer and for the 1st time in her life she said to me "be nice if you were here. So moved my wife 2 kids to Colorado to help her.

So we do tend to think if we can't see it its not real. That right there is what the enemy loves. Well if hes real .. hmm maybe the Big Guy is real also. Oh.. what is this "faith makes Satan real?" We forget they don't play games.. they don't tease joke. They work 24/7 never sleep. YET greater is He that is in us then He that's in the world. He gave us all power all authority over the enemy.

I like this story it gives you a insight to maybe how God treats it. The lord said to a preacher who was being confronted by this male witch that showed off all the evil he had done by newspaper clippings saying "now what can your God do". So in that moment the preacher was saying... PLEASE GOD say something. All God said was "don't put me to some stupid test".

Great is He that is in us then He that is in the world. Don't you ever wonder why things seem to wrong the moment you start to stand on what your Father said?
 
Dec 27, 2018
1,642
164
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#9
Light bearer




Word: LLID

Pronounce: hay-lale'

Strong: H1966

Orig: from 1984 (in the sense of brightness); the morning-star:--lucifer. H1984

Use: TWOT-499a Noun Masculine

Grk Strong:

  1. Lucifer = "light-bearer"

    1) shining one, morning star, Lucifer
    1a) of the king of Babylon and Satan (fig.)
    2) (TWOT) 'Helel' describing the king of Babylon
 
N

Niki7

Guest
#10
After much study, God enlightened me, concluding that fallen angels don’t exist except in the mind of man.
And He said unto them, “I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. Luke 10:18

people can and will believe what they want. but there is a devil and there are fallen angels and there are demons

For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment; II Peter 2:4

And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. Rev.12:9

you can view that as past or present, but there it is nonetheless

just all made up.....:cautious:
 
Dec 27, 2018
1,642
164
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#11
Now if we read the entire chapter about this man known as Lucifer in Isaiah 13,we find that he smites the Palestinians and the cedars trees in Lebanon rejoice when he falls.

If you were a Palestinian or a Lebanese,what mans fall would cause you to rejoice?

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out.
 

notmyown

Senior Member
May 26, 2016
4,927
1,272
113
#12
You proved my point, don't anyone mess with my devil because it upsets my apple cart. Did you know the devil is not mentioned once in the Old Testament.
are you certain?
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
8,313
3,618
113
#13
If the existence of the devil/satan wasn't clear in the Old Testament then it's a good thing Jesus made it clear. Now no one has an excuse.