Mike Winger's "Why I think Calvinism is Unbiblical"
- Thread starter Calmador
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Eph2:8 the language is not conclusive but interpretational that the highlighted clause speaks of "faith" being the gift.
Php1:29 does say: on behalf of Christ to believe in[to] Christ and to suffer on behalf of Christ was graciously given to you Philippians.
Acts18:27 does say they had believed through/by means of grace.
Some of the complexity of the concept of Faith is that the word can be interpreted both subjectively and objectively:
- It is what we do (believe, have faith).
- It is what we learn, understand and believe (the faith).
Eph2:8 can easily be interpreted (grammatically easier and cleaner than "faith") as saying the by grace salvation through/by faith (first clause) is the gift.
Php1:29 has in context in 1:27 " the good news [of] the Christ" and "the faith [of] the good news". These could be parallels: The Christ is the content of the Good News & The Faith is the content of the Good News. The Faith is what we believe - the Good News that Jesus is the Christ is what we believe. The Faith is the Good News that Jesus is the Christ. We believe the Faith. We believe the Good News.
To believe is a gracious gift because the object of our faith - what we believe - is a gift John3:16.
Acts18:27 can just as easily fit the above.
My full post was -
Where is that rule of debate in the Bible, Mr. Sola Scriptura. Or where is that rule of debate anywhere stated.
How is that a straw man. If the first rule of debate, according to you, is "The first rule of debate is to restart (sic.) your opponents argument in your own words and ask "Is that correct?" then "Where is that written anywhere in the Bible or elsewhere?" is a logical follow-up question.
Biblically, the first rule of debate could be "The first man who speaks sounds right, until another man cross-examines him." Prov. 18:17
Where is that rule of debate in the Bible, Mr. Sola Scriptura. Or where is that rule of debate anywhere stated.
How is that a straw man. If the first rule of debate, according to you, is "The first rule of debate is to restart (sic.) your opponents argument in your own words and ask "Is that correct?" then "Where is that written anywhere in the Bible or elsewhere?" is a logical follow-up question.
Biblically, the first rule of debate could be "The first man who speaks sounds right, until another man cross-examines him." Prov. 18:17
This is how I thought verbs worked, thank you. Just making sure. And I saw that you brought up objects of verbs, so, 'made to believe' is 'made' as the passive verb where the subject is made and "to believe" is the object, right (rather than the subject being the object of the action)?
And it just occurred to me how some assertion of a state of being made to believe some so close as to bring to my mind 'make believe' but that 'make' here is active and 'believe' is the object.
And it just occurred to me how some assertion of a state of being made to believe some so close as to bring to my mind 'make believe' but that 'make' here is active and 'believe' is the object.
Like most Arminians you love to pull verses out of context to try to fit them into your man-centred theology and wrongly take what was written specifically to Christians and apply them everyone in the world.
Rev 3:14 "And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write, 'These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God:
Rev 3:15 "I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot.
Rev 3:16 So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth.
Rev 3:17 Because you say, 'I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing'—and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked—
Rev 3:18 I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see.
Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent.
Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me.
Rev 3:21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.
Rev 3:22 "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches." ' "
Rev 3:14 "And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write, 'These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God:
Rev 3:15 "I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot.
Rev 3:16 So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth.
Rev 3:17 Because you say, 'I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing'—and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked—
Rev 3:18 I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see.
Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent.
Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me.
Rev 3:21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.
Rev 3:22 "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches." ' "
-
1
- Show all
are you denying that faith is given as a gift of grace and that Abraham was not accounted or imputed the faith through which God justified him?
Rom 4:9 Does this blessedness then come upon the circumcised only, or upon the uncircumcised also? For we say that faith was accounted to Abraham for righteousness.
Rom 4:9 Does this blessedness then come upon the circumcised only, or upon the uncircumcised also? For we say that faith was accounted to Abraham for righteousness.
please understand that the word foreknew does not mean that God simply knew what people would do in time and then stepped back out of time to choose those He saw would choose Him. This would be called postdestination and not predestination which clearly says in Scripture that God chose some before they were born or could do anything.
Rom 9:11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls),
These are those God eternally loves because He knows them intimately in the same manner that Joseph did not intimately know Mary until Jesus was born which does not mean that he did not know about her.
Mat 1:25 and did not know her till she had brought forth her firstborn Son. And he called His name JESUS.
To say that anyone was chosen by God conditioned upon what they did would be contrary to the concept of grace and Scripture.
Eph 1:4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,
Eph 1:5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
Eph 1:6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.
Rom 9:11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls),
These are those God eternally loves because He knows them intimately in the same manner that Joseph did not intimately know Mary until Jesus was born which does not mean that he did not know about her.
Mat 1:25 and did not know her till she had brought forth her firstborn Son. And he called His name JESUS.
To say that anyone was chosen by God conditioned upon what they did would be contrary to the concept of grace and Scripture.
Eph 1:4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,
Eph 1:5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
Eph 1:6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.